Repeal the 2nd Amendment

[Laika]

I love it when fresh, original threads like this pop up, especially when the participants approach and examine the subject objectively and analytically, and then through rational discourse, gain a fresh perspective and clearer understanding.

I have pop corn if you want to see whose left standing and who will be bleeding on the forums carpet? nothing like a bit of social media violence.

 

[esmith]

There are those that don't like firearms and then there are those that like firearms. My solution is those that don't like firearms don't buy them Simple no?

 

[Buttercup]

I have pop corn if you want to see whose left standing and who will be bleeding on the forums carpet? nothing like a bit of social media violence.

If the government tries to take away all guns from Americans, there's going to be a literal, sweeping blood bath. There are many who would rather die that give up the right to bear arms. It wouldn't be a pretty scene.

The second amendment will never be repealed, not in my lifetime anyway. The NRA is almost as powerful as God and has many followers. If a Republican president wins the election and congress continues to be a Republican majority, rivers of guns and ammo will continue to flow.

 

[Draka]

If the government tries to take away all guns from Americans, there's going to be a literal, sweeping blood bath. There are many who would rather die that give up the right to bear arms. It wouldn't be a pretty scene.

The second amendment will never be repealed, not in my lifetime anyway. The NRA is almost as powerful as God and has many followers. If a Republican president wins the election and congress continues to be a Republican majority, rivers of guns and ammo will continue to flow.

Unfortunately.

Would be nice if we could do something like Australia did. I mean, honestly, they turned it around drastically there. They had a mass shooting where kids were killed and just pretty much up and went "nope, that's it, we're done" and started seriously working on the issue. We don't even bother to try really and when someone does attempt to try, to make at least some kind of difference, no matter how small, we have those that lose their minds over it. It's insane.

 

[Buttercup]

Would be nice if we could do something like Australia did. I mean, honestly, they turned it around drastically there. They had a mass shooting where kids were killed and just pretty much up and went "nope, that's it, we're done" and started seriously working on the issue. We don't even bother to try really and when someone does attempt to try, to make at least some kind of difference, no matter how small, we have those that lose their minds over it. It's insane.

Yes, it was 20 years ago in Point Arthur when a man killed 35 people and wounded 24. The difference there was that both the conservatives and liberals worked together to get that law passed. I don't see that happening here anytime soon.

 

[Draka]

Yes, it was 20 years ago in Point Arthur when a man killed 35 people and wounded 24. The difference there was that both the conservative and liberals worked together to get that law passed. I don't see that happening here anytime soon.

Me neither.

 

[leibowde84]

The right to bear arms is a central tenet of a free society. Repeal of the 2nd Amendent does not make sense.

This seems incorrect, as the vast majority of free societies don't recognize the right to bear arms.

 

[Draka]

This seems incorrect, as the vast majority of free societies don't recognize the right to bear arms.

Certainly the most socially advanced societies.

 

[Revoltingest]

Certainly the most socially advanced societies.

This is why societies like N Korea are so much more socially advanced than Switzerland or Canuckistan.

(I just had to say it. You can throw a tomato at me now, if you wish.)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Have you heard of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising ?

Yeah, and it didn't really get much done. 13,000 Jews killed during the fighting and most of the 50,000 residents captured, and the ghetto was razed anyways. What's your point?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't feel that those countries count, because first they have only been gun-less for a short time.

They have no guns, thus they are gunless societies. But even in Canada, where they have guns, they have very strict regulations and not nearly anywhere close to the gun problem America has. Sweden is in second place when it comes to gun ownership, but they don't have the gun problems America does. Japan, where guns are extremely rare and practically impossible to get unless there is a very specific reason you are to have one, is known to be one of the safest countries on the planet.
But, here in America, we love our guns, we don't really care or mind who has easy access to them, we sometimes don't even care at all who has them, and we have a very serious problem with gun violence. But what do you expect when our gun laws are so relaxed that you don't even have to be trained or taught how to use them before purchasing one?

Also those 'Free countries' that 'Do not have guns' rely heavily upon the USA economically and militarily and upon the goodwill of other free countries.

The reason so many places rely on America (both countries with and without guns) is because the US has such a massive global presence and it's such a large military with more money than any other military. Economically, Japan, a gunless society, though in the midst of a long-term stagnation, provides a ton of stuff for America. America, on the other hand, relies on other places, including Germany (guns), Japan (no guns), and corrupt states such as China and Saudi Arabia. In this new global economy, the nations as the top rely, very heavily, upon smaller nations or nations with little-to-no pro-worker laws in order to exploit them and make them pay the price for our cheap abundance.

 

[Akivah]

I don't find the number of deaths by gun as a compelling argument. There are nearly as many deaths by car, but nobody is proposing to outlaw automobiles.

 

[Jake1001]

Yeah, and it didn't really get much done. 13,000 Jews killed during the fighting and most of the 50,000 residents captured, and the ghetto was razed anyways. What's your point?

It was the only chance the citizens had against a vicious police state. That is why repeal of the 2nd Amendent will not happen.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It was the only chance the citizens had against a vicious police state. That is why repeal of the 2nd Amendent will not happen.

It means that the "prevent a police state" argument fails. Most gun owners in America do not have any military or other specialized training. We don't even make sure they even know how to load and use the damn thing before we let them buy it. It's simply a very foolish argument to think the gun owners in America could stop a police state. But even in Sweden, where all males are trained for the military and are given the option to keep their gun after service (though the full-auto feature is removed), not even they could stop a police state because every male in conscripted. It's not impossible, but the odds are so unlikely that it doesn't make for a good argument.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There are nearly as many deaths by car, but nobody is proposing to outlaw automobiles.

But many of us do argue for much more strict laws and regulations regarding them.

 

[Brickjectivity]

They have no guns, thus they are gunless societies. But even in Canada, where they have guns, they have very strict regulations and not nearly anywhere close to the gun problem America has. Sweden is in second place when it comes to gun ownership, but they don't have the gun problems America does. Japan, where guns are extremely rare and practically impossible to get unless there is a very specific reason you are to have one, is known to be one of the safest countries on the planet.
But, here in America, we love our guns, we don't really care or mind who has easy access to them, we sometimes don't even care at all who has them, and we have a very serious problem with gun violence. But what do you expect when our gun laws are so relaxed that you don't even have to be trained or taught how to use them before purchasing one?

The conversation is about repealing the 2nd amendment which is different from regulating guns a little bit. Also I think we do care about shootings, and your concern is an example of that. You are an American and you care, but the differences between us and Canada are so huge that the number of guns does not explain much. Its like going to another world when you go to Canada.

The reason so many places rely on America (both countries with and without guns) is because the US has such a massive global presence and it's such a large military with more money than any other military.

I would like to add that they also trust us more than they trust other super powers. We do not gobble up our neighbouring countries, for example and have not done so in a long time. I'm aware of this, because I have two grandfathers who fought in WWII, and my father was in the service, my cousin and several uncles. Our military is highly respected not only for its power but because it is not used to capture territory or has not been used that way for a long time.

Economically, Japan, a gunless society, though in the midst of a long-term stagnation, provides a ton of stuff for America. America, on the other hand, relies on other places, including Germany (guns), Japan (no guns), and corrupt states such as China and Saudi Arabia. In this new global economy, the nations as the top rely, very heavily, upon smaller nations or nations with little-to-no pro-worker laws in order to exploit them and make them pay the price for our cheap abundance.

Our consumption of goods is not seen as especially evil but as not heroic enough, and the thing is that we are compared to a heroic standard. It shows how much the world is relying upon is -- how disappointed it is when we do not raise the bar. For another example Pakistanis were surprised that we did not immediately come to their aid after they suffered an earthquake. Us? We're thousands of miles away! Yes, us; because the world expects us to fill the hero role. Any time we do something wrong we have to apologize, and we have to repent. For example we had to apologize for the mistakes our military made, and we apologized for torturing our enemies and such. Other super powers do not do that. Its not part of their foreign policy, and no one expects them to.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There are those that don't like firearms and then there are those that like firearms. My solution is those that don't like firearms don't buy them Simple no?

And if the people who like firearms only ever shot other people who like firearms, then that would work just fine.

 

[Draka]

I don't care if you have 8 people living in your house, have a whole arsenal of guns and ammo at your disposal, you are not successfully fighting off a tyrannical government. They want in your house...pull pin, lob grenade through window, go in after the boom and clean up. Oh, you have yourself a little fortress, complete with barb wire fence and spotlights and whatnot? One rocket launcher...poof. This government has missiles, drones, grenades, tanks, rocket launchers, tear gas, etc etc etc. If you think you have guns in your home to fight a tyrannical government or police state you are straight up delusional.

 

[Wirey]

You can't remove the right to gun ownership without making a situation where the government could establish a police state through force. Why, just imagine if the 2nd Marines tried to force their will on Kentucky today. Once all those tanks, jet powered aircraft, and professionally trained shock-troops with their artillery and automatic weapons and resources rolled in, a few rednecks with hunting rifles would scare them off right quick. I mean, look how fast they cut and run in places like Vietnam and Iraq and Guadalcanal and Afghanistan and Korea and Iwo Jima and Peleliu, where they were fighting professionals who were willing to trade lives! The military fled even though the government begged them to stay!

Wait, what? Could it be that a bunch of untrained moron hillbillies with a Ruger Mini-14 collection don't scare the most powerful military in human history in any meaningful way? Say it ain't so!

I own guns, but I'm not dumb enough to think I scare a professional soldier in an M1A2 Main Battle Tank.

Looks tougher than my Remingtons.

 

[Wirey]

I don't find the number of deaths by gun as a compelling argument. There are nearly as many deaths by car, but nobody is proposing to outlaw automobiles.

The automobile was not designed for the express purpose of killing. They're different.