Report: 23 Pro-Life Organizations Vandalized, Firebombed by Pro-Abortion Activists in Recent Weeks

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Again, I ask:

Could this mode of thinking be why so many leftists come off as hypocrites?

The analogy went right over your head, eh?

“Yes, we will criticize you for certain horrible things you do- the exact same things we do- but you are ‘more wrong’ for doing them.”

So liberty means nothing?

Of course it's better to defend liberty than to defend oppression, even when both sides use the same tactics.

I think the real issue here is that you fail to acknowledge that you're on the side of oppression.

 

[Brian2]

Sure, but it's more wrong for anti-choicers to vandalize abortion clinics, all else being equal.

Why do you think that?
In the eyes of the law the acts would be the same I think.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why do you think that?
In the eyes of the law the acts would be the same I think.

I was talking about my own moral judgment.

Without condoning either one, I consider an illegal act in defense of oppression to be worse than an illegal act in opposition to oppression, all else being equal.

Do you feel differently?

 

[Brian2]

I was talking about my own moral judgment.

Without condoning either one, I consider an illegal act in defense of oppression to be worse than an illegal act in opposition to oppression, all else being equal.

Do you feel differently?

I guess the pro lifers see it differently. They might see it as an illegal act in opposition to murder.
The pro choicers might see it as revenge.
Just guessing of course.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I guess the pro lifers see it differently. They might see it as an illegal act in opposition to murder.

Would they? They don't generally behave as if abortion is murder. Usually, they're happy not to take steps to prevent abortion... it's only when the step involves being cruel to a pregnant person that their ears perk up.

The pro choicers might see it as revenge.
Just guessing of course.

More like marginally reducing anti-choicers' ability to oppress pregnant people.

I mean, think of how many "crisis pregnancy centre" managers read articles like the one in the OP and decided to drop a few thousand dollars each on security system upgrades.

All of that represents money - donor money - that won't be spent supporting the direct harassment of abortion clinic patients and staff or paying for anti-choice lobbying.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Then do it. Back up your claim.

Kermit Gosnell - Wikipedia

Abortion Doctor Sentenced for Sex Abuse

New York doctor pleads guilty in woman's botched abortion death

Congresswoman condemns fetal tissue procurement: 'This is online shopping for baby body parts'

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Yes - they are all lying to women. That's the purpose of a "crisis pregnancy centre."

Ok, you are being unreasonable now. You cannot possibly know this.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

If we're looking for a justification for violence, it's that opposing abortion bans is defense against tyranny.

Why do you think prolife people are prolife?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why do you think prolife people are prolife?

Most appear to be so due to a misinterpretation of what the Bible teaches. That is not the case for everyone.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why do you think prolife people are prolife?

Anti-choice, you mean.

It's always tricky to infer people's motivations from their actions, but the anti-choice movement's actions seem perfectly consistent with a desire on their part to punish women for having sex they disapprove of.

Now... why they want to punish women? Seems like it's mostly religious taboos around sex, IMO.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Most appear to be so due to a misinterpretation of what the Bible teaches. That is not the case for everyone.

What is the misinterpretation?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Anti-choice, you mean.

No prolife. I get to label myself how I want to. You can label yourself any way you want and I will respect that label. Prolife is the label most people have used to be against abortion.

It's always tricky to infer people's motivations from their actions, but the anti-choice movement's actions seem perfectly consistent with a desire on their part to punish women for having sex they disapprove of.

Now... why they want to punish women? Seems like it's mostly religious taboos around sex, IMO.

Then I don't believe you have listed to their objections. This is just talking points that will never help your cause. Most prolife people that I know are so because they believe a human life is involved that will be ended.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No prolife. I get to label myself how I want to. You can label yourself any way you want and I will respect that label. Prolife is the label most people have used to be against abortion.

I'm going to keep on using "anti-choice." You go right ahead and feel offended if you want.

Then I don't believe you have listed to their objections. This is just talking points that will never help your cause.

Oh, I've listened. It's just that the objections they give are inconsistent with their conduct, so I've decided that they're being dishonest.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. People demonstrate their real values and priorities through their actions.

Most prolife people that I know are so because they believe a human life is involved that will be ended.

But they won't generally support measures to prevent the loss of "human life" as basic as, say, a reasonable amount of job-protected, paid maternity leave?

You're making these people out to be callous monsters.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I'm going to keep on using "anti-choice." You go right ahead and feel offended if you want.

I am not offended. I think your are being disrespectful though.

Oh, I've listened. It's just that the objections they give are inconsistent with their conduct, so I've decided that they're being dishonest.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. People demonstrate their real values and priorities through their actions.


But they won't generally support measures to prevent the loss of "human life" as basic as, say, a reasonable amount of job-protected, paid maternity leave?

You're making these people out to be callous monsters.

No, you seem to just refuse to listen to people's reasons for their positions. You assign reasons for them that are the most uncharitable that you can come up with. That is being dishonest.

What is your endgame? Do you want to change peoples minds or just berate others?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am not offended. I think your are being disrespectful though.

Aww. I was going for contempt. I'll have to try harder.

No, you seem to just refuse to listen to people's reasons for their positions. You assign reasons for them that are the most uncharitable that you can come up with. That is being dishonest.

No, I listened to their stated reasons. It's just that I also paid attention to their actions.

What is your endgame? Do you want to change peoples minds or just berate others?

A bit of venting, a bit of convincing the lurkers, a bit of shifting the Overton Window from "should we acquiesce to anti-choicers' demands?" to "why on Earth would we ever subsidize or give a platform to anti-choicers?"

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, you seem to just refuse to listen to people's reasons for their positions. You assign reasons for them that are the most uncharitable that you can come up with. That is being dishonest.

A challenge for you if you think I'm being uncharitable:

Name one measure that a mainstream anti-choice group has proposed, in the name of reducing abortions, that makes things better for pregnant people. Just one that's a good enough option that it freely convinces pregnant people not to seek an abortion. Just one that doesn't involve cruelty or limiting the legal options available to pregnant people.

Just one.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What is the misinterpretation?

There is no opposition to abortion in the Bible. Christians sometimes think that there is.

 

[KW]

That's the - obviously false - rationalization you use for denying pregnant people their liberty, yes.

How is it false?

Killing unborn children is killing unborn children.

It doesn't matter who does it. No one has the right to kill the innocent on purpose.

 

[KW]

There is no opposition to abortion in the Bible. Christians sometimes think that there is.

Yes there is:

"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you."

"Whatever you do to the least of these you do to me."

Unborn children are known to God. We are told to protect the weak.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How is it false?

Killing unborn children is killing unborn children.

It doesn't matter who does it. No one has the right to kill the innocent on purpose.

Sorry, but it is impossible to kill "unborn children". Children do not exist until after they are born. What are you going to do? Stuff them back in the uterus? The mother might have something to say about that.