Respectful questions for understanding the LHP

[blackout]

Other people are always going to paint their own pictures of 'you' anyway.
It's a given.
It can't be avoided.

Might as well pose in a way that suits you.:flirt:

Cast yourSelf in a light that shows off your best angles.

 

[Adrift]

How do you advance spiritually, then? Just by investigation? Do you discover knowledge by meditation, or?

 

[Adrift]

Oh, and I guess it was just unexpected in general. I suppose I had assumed anyone would be interested in what they could gain from others (not necessarily through manipulation, but with cooperation). However, I can definitely see how this does not affect your personal spiritual journey.

 

[blackout]

Some people are users,
Some people are doormats.

To be honest, I don't respect either approach to being.

 

[1137]

Magick, meditation, and mysticism help you spiritually advance. Also experience, just in general. Experience what you can / wish to. We learn from experience.

 

[blackout]

Oh, and I guess it was just unexpected in general. I suppose I had assumed anyone would be interested in what they could gain from others (not necessarily through manipulation, but with cooperation). However, I can definitely see how this does not affect your personal spiritual journey.

We're all in inter'play with one another.

Why not make the most of it?

People largely don't want to cooperate with others,
even when it would be to their own benefit,
because they cannot think beyond the pre-programmed model/s.
(that rule their thinking)

Thinking out beyond the boundries of society's 'normalcy'
requires the de'programming of the Self,
and the de'construction of 'the world'
as we once thought we 'knew' it.

One cannot engage in truly Visionary Construction
until one has painstakingly taken the old construct apart
and laid it down in pieces on the table.

The detatched observation of life, unfortunately,
is lost on most people.

But you can meet people where they are,
and appreciate things about them...
their 'character'.... their heart, humor, quirks, talents, abilities, their insights....
and connect with them where you can,
in an honest and real way.

When you view your own life as a story,
or a play... an epic journey... a living cinema...
you realize that we are each the Star of our Own life,
and (at the same time) supporting characters for others.
Costars... Heroes, Villians, Helpers, Adversaries, Comic relief, Extras....
each of us playing more than one role at a time
as our Stories overlap.

I'm trying to get at something,
not sure if I've succeeded...

 

[Orias]

What are your reservations on killing others?

I'd rather not do it.

What would be sufficient reason for you to kill?

Someone trying to kill me, or someone I love.

Do you only keep from killing because the human population as a whole is useful to you, or...?

Because its just not in my nature to kill my genetically similar fellow man.

Let's ignore the fact that it is unlawful and you would likely be jailed; I am only concerned with your personal values and morality.

If I had to kill a man, I would. The very thought is disturbing, and in a way peaceful to me...in a somewhat distorted way.

Maybes its just because I know what I am capable of.

If one does not show respect to me, then it is hard for me to show respect to them.

I can tolerate a push, a few punches, but naturally I would feel more threatened by a hand held weapon since it is rare to come across one who's hands are more adept than mine.

(Heheh, sorry for the bombastic posture :bat

Do you believe that magick, lesser or ritualistic, is effective due to subliminal/emotional reasons, or do you think something more mysterious is at work? Or do you even practice it?

Subliminal and emotional reasons most definitely, something even greater than ourselves most definitely.

And I do practice, in ways...

 

[Mindmaster]

Good reading. Mindmaster, I actually very much enjoy your idea of doing as you will and thereby accepting the consequences. I feel like that is the biggest commonality I have with the left-hand path. I also feel like I am starting to understand how the vengeance stuff works.

With true power lies responsibility, and although we are seeking to have as much of that in our lives as possible it cuts both ways. Doing what you want and doing what you need to do are two different things. Most of the time doing what you want is merely entertainment. Its possible to take this highly appealing concept and ruin yourself with it like anything else. You need to temper your will like anything else so that you behave soundly in all instances. If you are ruled by the lesser needs in life you are apt to miss the big picture and suffer developmentally.

Do insects have the same birthright of survival as humans do? If you see an insect in your path, do you attempt to step out of the way (and not just to avoid getting guts on your shoe)?

Unfortunately nature has made sure that I am unaware of how many bugs I've been smashing by accident. I claim immunity! :devil: I respect animal and insect lives more than human generally so not much of an issue.

You seem to differ from a lot of others in that you do not view other humans as resources with which you may gain power. You aren't interested at all in comradery?

As a whole the left hand path is rather solitary if you're looking for a group experience you're not going to find it really. We speak here to one another but odds are would never have any interest in sharing our personal space. I mostly speak as a service to others that they may determine their own path. One way in which I feel I contribute to the cause and as a means of devotion Satan in my view. Others probably don't give a damn whatsoever and it doesn't phase me.

Overall great reading! I'm having a lot of difficulty keeping track of everything I want to ask, haha. One other thing, though: How do you feel about Hedonism? LaVey seems to think that any source of joy and excitement adds to your emotional power, but what do you think?

When I began reading about Satanism there was no internet, so LaVey's _The Satanic Bible_ is what you could find. The bookstore obviously had taken it very very seriously since they parked it directly next to _The Necronomicon_. You had to be much braver back then since you'd have to buy these books in person. It was generally a bad idea to let people know you had it, and even worse see you purchasing it. :run: Most of us started from that viewpoint because for awhile most Satanists were all basically under one flag for convenience. Human sacrifice; atheists and theists living together. Mass hysteria! :bat: Ok, so not EXACTLY like that! Most of us didn't even understand there were others until heavy metal music started developing itself with these types of themes and we started running into others at the shows. This sort of gave us a voice and once the internet rolled around we were immediately using it. The reason we are here now is Satanic thought has grown -- it is no longer black and red, but a slew of coloring. It has grown completely away from LaVey at this juncture at least if you talking about modern Satanism. There are purists whom are Lavey-nazi's (whom reside on other forums), but any quick conversation can relay how dead and undeveloped they are. Any living path evolves, and the CoS has been on life support for quite awhile... Time and tide wait for no man. They are merely embracing a fading memory and going down with it.

LaVey was far too concerned about turning the Church of Satan into a sex/magic cult because it sold tickets; in fact that is what he seemed mostly about -- the show. By 1974, it was just a cult of personality dead for all purposes. Hedonism is basically pleasure-seeking which is OK if it doesn't disrupt the important aspects of your life or impede your development. Unfortunately, I've known far too many of the people whom follow LaVey (and now Gilmore) and all they are about is drink, drugs, sex, and other malignant behavior. They are complete slaves to their passions and worthless -- just a bunch of junkies, nymphos, and freaks. Pardon me if my aspirations aren't so 'age sixteen'. Its being marketed as the religion that allows you to be a screw up and better yet to feel as though you are a better person for doing so! It has basically become a laughing stock of many serious LHP groups and individuals although this is sort of hush hush because people still tend to respect LaVey. As right as _TSB_ was for me in youth by offering an alternative philosophy it now has degraded into a fool attracting steaming pile of dung. Whether you are intoxicated to the point of non-functionality or sucking up religious dogma you are nothing but a slave. Burn the sacred cow -- that which hinders us binds us!

 

[Infinitum]

Eh, comeradery is not really my biggest concern when it comes to spiritual practices. Your mind is where you create your reality, as I pointed out in explaining magick. We can share similar ideas, even share a connection, but my mind and your mind will never be one in this state of Being. Spirituality is an individual journey, in my opinion, from the perspective of Being human. As for gaining power from others, this sounds like manipulation to me. I can and have easily manipulated the 'weaker', and it can help you gain a lot. Personally I try not to manipulate others, as a recovering addict I not only am a master of it but I have more personal issues with doing it.

Oh, it's a good thing you took up this. I'm so used to our individualism that I tend to take it for granted already.

And now I wonder how many manipulation junkies we actually have in the DIR. Hm...

 

[Adrift]

Every time I look at this thread, I'm so grateful for the contributions! Thank you so much, and you are all definitely helping me greatly in finding my own path. As always I want to address so many things individually, but my brain doesn't multitask this way Dx

I believe I now understand the general views of LaVey, hedonism, killing, and respect within the LHP, and I'm starting to get to know your individualities. You all have solid foundations in your values, and I respect that greatly.

And, so... there are no "manipulation junkies" in this DIR? I think I'd like to ask one of them a few questions =P

 

[Infinitum]

And, so... there are no "manipulation junkies" in this DIR? I think I'd like to ask one of them a few questions =P

I feel like stepping into a confessional saying this, but I spent quite an impressive number of years working on ways to wrap people around my little finger. Not sure I've ever actually gotten past that habit.
I'm pretty sure if you ask a question, you'll get an answer from many of us. I'm guessing here, but I'd say it's safe to assume all of us have experimented with manipulation at some point our our magical careers.

 

[Iti oj]

i only use people if they can benifit from it or others benefit from it out ways any harm

 

[Adrift]

I feel like stepping into a confessional saying this, but I spent quite an impressive number of years working on ways to wrap people around my little finger. Not sure I've ever actually gotten past that habit.

Oh, neat! What made you start, and what changed your mind? Did you only do it out of experimentation, or did you see nothing wrong with it?

This question goes out to anyone who may want to answer, as well.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I very recently read the LaVey Satanist Bible, after realizing I knew practically nothing about Satanism, especially Atheistic Satanism. My reading has gotten me very intrigued by modern Satanism and the LHP in general.

I would greatly appreciate some points being clarified that I don't quite understand.

I thought I would find satisfactory answers just from searching the internet, but I didn't... and I would like to hear personal accounts directly from the mouths of members of the LHP, if you all don't mind.

As most of my knowledge lies specifically in Satanism as opposed to the commonalities of all the religions of the LHP, I apologize if I accidentally make false assumptions about Luciferians, Setians, others, or even Satanists. I aim to know how each denomination of the LHP views certain subjects; what they share, and how they differ.

So, the question that has been predominantly on my mind relates to respect for life and others. What are your reservations on killing others? What would be sufficient reason for you to kill? Do you only keep from killing because the human population as a whole is useful to you, or...? Let's ignore the fact that it is unlawful and you would likely be jailed; I am only concerned with your personal values and morality.

The other thing on my mind concerns magick. Magick, as described by LaVey, seems very open-ended. Do you believe that magick, lesser or ritualistic, is effective due to subliminal/emotional reasons, or do you think something more mysterious is at work? Or do you even practice it?

That's all that comes to mind right now. Any help is greatly appreciated!

For me:

Killing others - Fine.

There doesn't have to be a reason, but probably pleasure.

For me, I don't think the human species means anything to me, but the only reason I haven't is: I have no reason to.

On magick, I think it's realistic, in the same way hope is. I pray, I wish on 11:11, I throw pennies into wishing wells, etc.

Magick is obviously mysterious, otherwise it wouldn't be magick, it'd be science.

 

[Adrift]

Killing others - Fine.

There doesn't have to be a reason, but probably pleasure.

For me, I don't think the human species means anything to me, but the only reason I haven't is: I have no reason to.

On magick, I think it's realistic, in the same way hope is. I pray, I wish on 11:11, I throw pennies into wishing wells, etc.

Magick is obviously mysterious, otherwise it wouldn't be magick, it'd be science.

I think everything in that post mystifies me. I'll start with a very basic question...

What do you value?

 

[Infinitum]

Oh, neat! What made you start, and what changed your mind? Did you only do it out of experimentation, or did you see nothing wrong with it?

This question goes out to anyone who may want to answer, as well.

Experimenting, mostly. It's just that after you've openly done it long enough people easily start to mistrust you, so it becomes very counterproductive. If you have the consent of all parties it can be an interesting game, but I'd say it's always got that certain feeling of playing with fire around it. It's an interesing aspect of group magic, though and has it's good sides when practiced with care. Manipulation isn't something I'd suggest if you actually aren't mature enough to use it to something else than just boosting your ego.

That's enough for the moment at least. It's late here already, so I'll come back tomorrow and see if I need to change something I've said.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I think everything in that post mystifies me. I'll start with a very basic question...

What do you value?

Nothing specific, just pleasure.

 

[Adrift]

Nothing specific, just pleasure.

So you're a hedonist?

 

[Orias]

Naturally, man is.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

So you're a hedonist?

Pretty much, yeah.