Response to a post (About myself being Gender Fluid)

[ImmortalFlame]

My understanding of bimodal is; you have black, you have white, and countless shades of grey. But each of those shades of gray don't have their own names, they are under the category of black or white, where as binary is only the extreme black or extreme white. Is this your understanding?

Not quite, but close. Bimodal distribution means the tendency is towards one of two categories, but with spaces both between and at the extremes of variance. In other words, while the majority fall comfortably under the bell curve of biologically male or female, there is variance both within and between these two categories; people who exhibit a greater or lesser degree or number of biologically masculine/feminine traits, for instance. As biology is extremely complicated, as you would expect, the precise variance of characteristics between biological men and biological women are far too complex and numerous to simply be accounted for in a basic binary model.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But there are times when it needs to be easily defined. Not everybody has time to take into account your human experiences, or whatever might be going on inside of your head into account when describing you. Sometimes a description needs to be made, and all you have time for is a simple glance.

Thats why when I worked at a gas station I just quit using gendered nouns when I didn't know a customer. I got it wrong a few times, and that was more than enough for me. So I just started to avoid the sirs and maams and everything worked out in the end and no one cared.

 

[Kfox]

Lol. What a nonsense reply.

First of all, news reports and APB regularly misgender people because as it turns out quick looks aren't sufficient to establish gender identity, and so they often get it wrong *even with cis gendered people.* If they're wrong, they issue a corrections later and no big deal.

Nobody cares about mistakes, they just point out when people are being deliberately obstinant.

My point is; I find it absurd to suggest you are required to invest time to get to know someone before you describe them; in the real world not everybody has time to invest such time.

Secondly, if you're only going based off assigned sex then yeah

Sex is never “assigned”, if it were there would be no such a thing as “gender reveal parties”. Sex is determined before birth and confirmed at birth.

, you need to grow because a F on paper doesn't mean without masculine presentation. So any investigator worth their salt would put very little visual bias on what that F on paper means.

What’s wrong with describing a person as a woman who masculine? I find that better than calling her a man.

If anything you're just making a better case to not presume someone's gender based on their assigned sex.

No, I’m making the case of getting rid of gender all together. Getting rid of gender does not prevent you from investing time to know someone and describing them based on this knowledge, it just makes it possible for those who don’t have time to invest in knowing them.

But like I said, this was never about making things less complex, it's about deliberately suppressing trans identities.

There have always been men who identified as women, who felt like a woman; etc and visa versa. Nobody is talking about getting rid of that; I’m talking about getting rid of the idea that if you identify as a woman, or if you feel like a woman; you ARE a woman.

 

[Kfox]

My answer to that would be: Stay the bleep out of my pants! It's not any of your business.

Whatever noise you've got going on inside of your pants is of no interest of mine; you have nothing to worry about!

 

[crossfire]

Whatever noise you've got going on inside of your pants is of no interest of mine; you have nothing to worry about!

Thank you! Now convince the politicians that whatever the state of any uterus that I may or may not have is not something subject to legislation!

 

[Kfox]

Not quite, but close. Bimodal distribution means the tendency is towards one of two categories, but with spaces both between and at the extremes of variance. In other words, while the majority fall comfortably under the bell curve of biologically male or female, there is variance both within and between these two categories; people who exhibit a greater or lesser degree or number of biologically masculine/feminine traits, for instance. As biology is extremely complicated, as you would expect, the precise variance of characteristics between biological men and biological women are far too complex and numerous to simply be accounted for in a basic binary model.

What is so complex about biology? It seems to me (outside of deformities and anomality's,) if you have fallopian tubes, uterus, and ovaries, you are a woman; am I missing something here?

 

[Kfox]

Thank you! Now convince the politicians that whatever the state of any uterus that I may or may not have is not something subject to legislation!

I'll do that when you convince said politicians that whatever drug of my choosing used in the privacy of my own home is not something subject to legislation. Deal?

 

[crossfire]

I'll do that when you convince said politicians that whatever drug of my choosing used in the privacy of my own home is not something subject to legislation. Deal?

Agreed, as long as you are using it on yourself and not on anyone else.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

What is so complex about biology?

Are you serious?

It seems to me (outside of deformities and anomality's,) if you have fallopian tubes, uterus, and ovaries, you are a woman; am I missing something here?

The full spectrum of what being a woman means biologically and socially.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

My point is; I find it absurd to suggest you are required to invest time to get to know someone before you describe them; in the real world not everybody has time to invest such time.

Sex is never “assigned”, if it were there would be no such a thing as “gender reveal parties”. Sex is determined before birth and confirmed at birth.

What’s wrong with describing a person as a woman who masculine? I find that better than calling her a man.

No, I’m making the case of getting rid of gender all together. Getting rid of gender does not prevent you from investing time to know someone and describing them based on this knowledge, it just makes it possible for those who don’t have time to invest in knowing them.

There have always been men who identified as women, who felt like a woman; etc and visa versa. Nobody is talking about getting rid of that; I’m talking about getting rid of the idea that if you identify as a woman, or if you feel like a woman; you ARE a woman.

Sex is assigned because it's a process of medical and legal documentation assigned to and by the presiding doctor. 'Gender reveal' parties have nothing to do with it, as they are meaningless within the legal and medical framework. Ditto a wedding party without a marriage license. This is also why a sex change in legal framework is different than a sex change in a medical framework which is different than a sex change in the biological framework. *No matter how much you want everything to just be dictated by the latter, it isn't.*

Transwomen are women and transmen are men because, in fact, womanhood and manhood are not reducible to purely biology, but a broad spectrum of social call and response, cultural expression and individual psychology.

Gender already exists as a sociological concept seperate from biological sex. Sex is not gender and is not and won't be described as such going forward by anyone of any note. So struggling against it is about as foolish as refusing to call two gay spouses married because of some defunct reductive definition of marriage someone refuses to let go of.

 

[Kfox]

Agreed, as long as you are using it on yourself and not on anyone else.

Of course! Did you think I was gonna go around sticking random people with needles full of heroine?

 

[Kfox]

The full spectrum of what being a woman means biologically and socially.

So what I am missing; explain what it means biologically to be a woman.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What is so complex about biology? It seems to me (outside of deformities and anomality's,) if you have fallopian tubes, uterus, and ovaries, you are a woman; am I missing something here?

That some women, for whatever reason, don't have those.

 

[crossfire]

Of course! Did you think I was gonna go around sticking random people with needles full of heroine?

Actually, I was referring to things like date-rape drugs (because you did write whatever drug of my choosing in the privacy of my own home and did not specify on yourself only.)

 

[icehorse]

Gender is a nuanced subject that expands beyond biological sex. That is an unambiguously true statement.

A sincere question: Based on your statements above, would you agree that if we were to construct a Venn diagram depicting the relationship between sex and gender, there would be an area of overlap, but also areas unique to each? So a total of three distinct regions in the Venn diagram?

 

[icehorse]

My answer to that would be: Stay the bleep out of my pants! It's not any of your business.

As long as you're not infringing on the rights of others, no problem.

 

[crossfire]

As long as you're not infringing on the rights of others, no problem.

How would keeping what's inside my pants secret infringe on the rights of others?

 

[icehorse]

How would keeping what's inside my pants secret infringe on the rights of others?

I'm sorry, I should have let this go. I did not intend to hijack the thread. If you look at any of the various, recent RF threads on trans issues you can find the answers to your question here.

 

[crossfire]

I'm sorry, I should have let this go. I did not intend to hijack the thread. If you look at any of the various, recent RF threads on trans issues you can find the answers to your question here.

I'm not trans.

 

[icehorse]

I'm not trans.

never said you were