There are plenty of Christians around that might want to debate it. Just because its self evident to you, doesn't mean it is to everyone else.
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Resurrection of Christ: Literal fact or spiritual reality?
- Thread starter Dawnofhope
- Start date
There are plenty of Christians around that might want to debate it. Just because its self evident to you, doesn't mean it is to everyone else.
Beth Stitely
Member
A perfect reflection of something makes it one and the same. If Jesus has all the divine attributes of God, wouldn't that in itself make him God? So yes, Jesus is God.
Beth Stitely
Member
Press the reply rectangle on the right hand side of the box, 'then' say what you want to
Like this?
Beth Stitely
Member
Got it! LOL...finally!Press the reply rectangle on the right hand side of the box, 'then' say what you want to
FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
Want to debate = would like to debate? No, it is not self-evident to me. In fact that is a polar opposite of what it is to me. Self-evident is not debatable.
What I said was logic, observation etc...verses dogma and bedtime stories....more or less.
So go ahead and "want to debate" all you want. Let me know when you have anything resembling reason, evidence, or observation!
I agree in the sense that Jesus Manifests the attributes of God. However his physical body is not God. An analogy is of the sun reflected upon the mirror. If the sun reflected through the mirror were to say I am the sun this is correct. If the mirror were to say I am not the sun then this is true. If the Manifestation of God (in this case Jesus) says I am God, this is true. If He says I am a man amidst men then this also is true. In this way the contradictory statements made by Jesus is understood. Hope that makes sense.
Beth Stitely
Member
So you're agreeing that Jesus is God? I'm pretty sure that's not what you think...
Of course it is...
I've just done a quick cut and paste from an article you may be interested in
Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings
Bahá'u'lláh uses the concept of the twofold station to explain seemingly contradictory statements...
The first station, which is related to His [the Manifestations] innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testified the tradition: 'Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.... (Gleanings 66-67).
The New Testament, similarly, contains statements where Jesus describes Himself as God, and others where He makes a distinction between Himself and God. For example, 'I and the Father are One (John 10:30); and 'the Father is in me, and I am in the Father (John 1038); but on the other hand, 'the Father is greater than I (John 14:28); and 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19). These statements do not contradict, but are complementary if one assumes they assert an epistemological oneness with God, but an ontological separateness from the Unknowable Essence.
Hope that explains the Baha'i position. The difference between Christianity and the Baha'i Faith is that we apply the same principal to Moses, Muhammad, and Baha'u'llah.
buddhist
Well-Known Member
Nobody can know for sure.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
You are right as I deny both. What is supposed to happen now?
Beth Stitely
Member
OK. You have the ability to make that choice.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Yes, and I agree that we all have the ability to make choices because, we all enjoy the right to the attribute of Freewill.
Beth Stitely
Member
Ben, I see that you have listed your beliefs as Jewish...I'm wondering...what are your thoughts about the building of the 3rd temple?
Beth Stitely
Member
Doesn't that also support the Trinity?
Beth Stitely
Member
I should be more clear...I was referring to the paragraph about the New Testament..
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
I live here in Israel and, I see through the Temple Yeshiva in Jerusalem, that they are training Levites to a return to animal sacrifices. Since I don't agree with animal sacrifices, I hope we will never rebuild the Temple. BTW, Prophet Jeremiah declared in Jeremiah 7:22 that HaShem never commanded that sacrifices be part of the religion of Israel. But by the same token, I do wish the Temple to be rebuilt but as the mother of all synagogues in the world. Besides, the Temple grants power to the People. I also believe that if we remain without a Temple, Jerusalem itself will always be disputed.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I was glad to see that mention about Jeremiah, in your post.
I will link it to Hosea's 'Mercy before sacrifice' verses.
John the Baptist and Jesus were both Jews who were strongly against the whole Temple money-go-round, and John offered remission of sins through immersion in water.... only. This must have reduced temple takings enormously because thousands flocked to obtain remission from sins through John and his disciples, hence his arrest.
Jesus's anger over Temple fees, charges, taxes and corruption was shown by his demonstration in, and picketing of the Temple Courts.
...just saying.... thanks for the link.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Hi.....
I'm a naughty pagan!
There are lots of Christians who don't think that Jesus was God, of course.
The word 'Unitarian' springs to mind.
I can see that analogy of 009's, though. Look into a mirror and it could show the dazzling sun, but it's just a mirror.
Maybe prophets who reflect perfection just seem like God?
Jesus did have some faults, you know...... He was not strong about family, his family at any rate.
He had an enormous temper.
He wasn't that bothered about folks who weren't working-class Jews.
He did suggest avoiding paying taxes.
He did like a good drink (but then, so do I.... I said I was naughty!)
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
I thought John had been arrested because, he had taken upon himself to bitterly criticize the wife of Herod who was married to his brother.