Resurrection of Christ: Literal fact or spiritual reality?

[Unveiled Artist]

I believe you need to explicate the process since I don't see any way for this to happen literally. Are you going to tell me that in the process of taking communion you actually physically died and then physically came to life again?

Communion means joining with the body of christ in his last supper and partaking in the bread and wine of life. When people gather to eat a sacred meal, that literal meal for each time that meal is served, it brings back the host of that meal as the center piece of communion.

Saying the body of christ is symbolic is like saying the body of believers are not in communion with each other as christ says but symbolicly commune. If that be the case, you can symbolicaly commune at home and you dont need to be "at the lords table" because you can visualize it in your head.

When you take the bread and wine, you become one body in christ. Christ has already been resurrected so when you come together you are literally resurrecting the body in christ. You are making christ present (more than one i am here) when you come as one body and as saved when you partake of communion you are saved and promised unto resurrection in christ.

Your resurrection (salvation in union with god) is not symbolic. If that be the case, youre saying christ union with his father is symbolic.

When the isrealite starved in the disert, god did jot give them symbolic bread to nourish them. They are Real bread. They were Real people wh needed Real food. Food is important in scripture and traditions of judaism and catholicism. It brings people culturally together as a unit. To say it is symbolic is saying their experience is not real but invisioned.

When moses put the blood on each persons door, it was real blood. Christ shed real blood. People are literally saved.

It is a literal animal and human sacrifice and communion is sharing of this sacrifice and salvation (resurrection). You are going through the passion when you literally commune.

Its up to the believer if he wants to see his faith as symbolic or part symbolic. If your salvation is real why is the parts that make up your salvation not real too?

 

[Ben Avraham]

I believe the temple will be destroyed and the poeple will have to flee Jerusalem are two of them that have been fulfilled.

That one was written after the facts. Prophecies before the events took place are not prophecies but history. Besides, who wrote the gospel of Matthew? Christian preconceived notions of Hellenists, probably fathers of the Church. I asked for a prophecy that was fulfilled in Jesus, not written about him. Try again!

 

[omega2xx]

I believe you are talking about the physical body which is only part of Jesus. The other part, the Spirit of God is everywhere.

I believe that is a bogus interpretation of a one time event.

I believe that means He can do everything as God.

In Phil 2:7, what did Jesus empty Himself of?

Also look at Jn 5:30 , Jn 12:49, Jn 14:10 &Jn18:34.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I believe I received Jesus as Lord and Savior because of the resurrection. THe resurrection convinced me that there was a Spirit to receive.

The words and example of Jesus (not a belief in the physical resurrection) saved me. I was blind but now I see. I was deaf but now I hear. I was crippled but now I can walk in His ways. I was drowning but He lifted me up and resuscitated me with the breaths of the Holy Spirit. I was as one dead. He resurrected me to spiritual life. I died and then I was born again. That is the resurrection for me.

 

[omega2xx]

The words and example of Jesus (not a belief in the physical resurrection) saved me. I was blind but now I see. I was deaf but now I hear. I was crippled but now I can walk in His ways. I was drowning but He lifted me up and resuscitated me with the breaths of the Holy Spirit. I was as one dead. He resurrected me to spiritual life. I died and then I was born again. That is the resurrection for me.

Biblically speaking one can only be a Christian if hey have a correct Biblical view of Jesus.

In Baha'i who is Jesus?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Biblically speaking one can only be a Christian if hey have a correct Biblical view of Jesus. In Baha'i who is Jesus?

Too bad for you because, the only correct Biblical view of Jesus is through his own gospel aka the Tanach. Therefore,
the correct Biblical view of Jesus only leads the seeker to Judaism, not to Christianity.

 

[omega2xx]

Too bad for you because, the only correct Biblical view of Jesus is through his own gospel aka the Tanach.

It is pure ignorance of the Bible to say the Tanach is the gospel of Jesus. In the fidrst p;lace none of the gospels are His gospels that are the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke John about Jesus.as given to them by God.

Therefore,the correct Biblical view of Jesus only leads the seeker to Judaism, not to Christianity.

As usual, when you speak of Christianity, you get it backwards. Understanding the NT, leads those who understand it to Jesus and to Christianity.

The whole OT speaks of Jesus---Lk 24:27 & 44 if you know how to look. Jesus is the center of both testaments, not the Jews.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Biblically speaking one can only be a Christian if hey have a correct Biblical view of Jesus.

In Baha'i who is Jesus?

Great question.


Bahá'u'lláh describes Jesus' impact on the world:

Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole of Creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent spirit . . . He it is who purified the world. Blessed the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him. Baha'u'llah

Abdu'l-Baha on Christ said:

Christ came, saying, “I am born of the Holy Spirit.” Though it is now easy for the Christians to believe this assertion, at that time it was very difficult. According to the text of the Gospel the Pharisees said, “Is not this the son of Joseph of Nazareth Whom we know? How can He say, therefore, I came down from heaven?” 1

Briefly, this Man, Who, apparently, and in the eyes of all, was lowly, arose with such great power that He abolished a religion that had lasted fifteen hundred years, at a time when the slightest deviation from it exposed the offender to danger or to death. Moreover, in the days of Christ the morals of the whole world and the condition of the Israelites had become completely confused and corrupted, and Israel had fallen into a state of the utmost degradation, misery and bondage. At one time they had been taken captive by the Chaldeans and Persians; at another time they were reduced to slavery to the Assyrians; then they became the subjects and vassals of the Greeks; and finally they were ruled over and despised by the Romans.

This young Man, Christ, by the help of a supernatural power, abrogated the ancient Mosaic Law, reformed the general morals, and once again laid the foundation of eternal glory for the Israelites. Moreover, He brought to humanity the glad tidings of universal peace, and spread abroad teachings which were not for Israel alone but were for the general happiness of the whole human race.

Those who first strove to do away with Him were the Israelites, His own kindred. To all outward appearances they overcame Him and brought Him into direst distress. At last they crowned Him with the crown of thorns and crucified Him. But Christ, while apparently in the deepest misery and affliction, proclaimed, “This Sun will be resplendent, this Light will shine, My grace will surround the world, and all My enemies will be brought low.” And as He said, so it was; for all the kings of the earth have not been able to withstand Him. Nay, all their standards have been overthrown, while the banner of that Oppressed One has been raised to the zenith.

But this is opposed to all the rules of human reason. Then it becomes clear and evident that this Glorious Being was a true Educator of the world of humanity, and that He was helped and confirmed by divine power.

Shoghi Effendi the leader of the Baha'i Faith from 1921 - 1957 stated

"As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost...”

Sound familiar?

 

[omega2xx]

Great question.


Bahá'u'lláh describes Jesus' impact on the world:

Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole of Creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent spirit . . . He it is who purified the world. Blessed the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him. Baha'u'llah

None of that is Biblical

Abdu'l-Baha on Christ said:

Christ came, saying, “I am born of the Holy Spirit.” Though it is now easy for the Christians to believe this assertion, at that time it was very difficult. According to the text of the Gospel the Pharisees said, “Is not this the son of Joseph of Nazareth Whom we know? How can He say, therefore, I came down from heaven?” 1]

Christ did not say "I am born of the Holy Spirit." Jesus, not Christ, was born of the Holy Spirit. If there is a gospel of the Pharisees, it is not in the canon.

Briefly, this Man, Who, apparently, and in the eyes of all, was lowly, arose with such great power that He abolished a religion that had lasted fifteen hundred years, at a time when the slightest deviation from it exposed the offender to danger or to death. Moreover, in the days of Christ the morals of the whole world and the condition of the Israelites had become completely confused and corrupted, and Israel had fallen into a state of the utmost degradation, misery and bondage. At one time they had been taken captive by the Chaldeans and Persians; at another time they were reduced to slavery to the Assyrians; then they became the subjects and vassals of the Greeks; and finally they were ruled over and despised by the Romans.

The only Biblical part of that paragraph is Israel being in captivity to the various nations.

This young Man, Christ, by the help of a supernatural power, abrogated the ancient Mosaic Law, reformed the general morals, and once again laid the foundation of eternal glory for the Israelites. Moreover, He brought to humanity the glad tidings of universal peace, and spread abroad teachings which were not for Israel alone but were for the general happiness of the whole human race.

Basically Biblical.

Those who first strove to do away with Him were the Israelites, His own kindred. To all outward appearances they overcame Him and brought Him into direst distress. At last they crowned Him with the crown of thorns and crucified Him. But Christ, while apparently in the deepest misery and affliction, proclaimed, “This Sun will be resplendent, this Light will shine, My grace will surround the world, and all My enemies will be brought low.” And as He said, so it was; for all the kings of the earth have not been able to withstand Him. Nay, all their standards have been overthrown, while the banner of that Oppressed One has been raised to the zenith.

Basically Biblical

But this is opposed to all the rules of human reason. Then it becomes clear and evident that this Glorious Being was a true Educator of the world of humanity, and that He was helped and confirmed by divine power.

Again basically Biblical, but all of this can be found in the Bible. There is no need to copy it into another religion.

Shoghi Effendi the leader of the Baha'i Faith from 1921 - 1957 stated

"As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost...”

Sound familiar?

If Baha'i believes that statement, they should renounce Baha'i and accept Jesus as the Lord and Savior. That would mane them Christians. Does Baha'i teach that Jesus was God, and that His death aid for the sins of the whole world?

 

[Beth Stitely]

I would disagree with you Beth. Doesn't John in his letters state clearly that Christ came in the flesh?
Jesus himself said: " My words are Spirit and they are life". Jesus divine in nature so reveals God to us. Fully human and fully divine in nature.
But we cannot change that as a Messiah he would be the final word from God. Christ never did away with God the Father in fact he tells us
if we do not love God first with all our heart we cannot love him.

The Jews never believed God would come in flesh. They believed their Messiah would be a Prophet like unto Moses.
Jesus even said " The works I do are not of myself, God does his own works through me."
In Acts 7 we see Stephen look up into heaven empowered by Gods Holy Spirit and see the Son of God Jesus stood on the right hand side of God.

Jesus like Adam was born by the Word of God. Both had God for their physical Father the Word made flesh.
Adam spoke into being formed from the soil and Gods own breath breathed into him. Jesus promised and born of a virgin the word made flesh.

This is the way, I see the truth in Jesus Christ. He never made himself equal to God, he made himself the servant of God and told others to do like wise.

I would be interested in anything you might like to add.

Yes, I believe Jesus came in the flesh.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Yes, I believe Jesus came in the flesh.

You too Beth, and what a beautiful flesh if you come any closer to your avatar! Yes Beth, we all have come in the flesh, not only Jesus. And you did not know about that! Pity!

 

[Ben Avraham]

It is pure ignorance of the Bible to say the Tanach is the gospel of Jesus. In the fidrst p;lace none of the gospels are His gospels that are the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke John about Jesus.as given to them by God. As usual, when you speak of Christianity, you get it backwards. Understanding the NT, leads those who understand it to Jesus and to Christianity. The whole OT speaks of Jesus---Lk 24:27 & 44 if you know how to look. Jesus is the center of both testaments, not the Jews.

The Tanach says absolutely nothing about Jesus. I am the one who says that the Tanach is the gospel
of Jesus because Jesus was a Jew and, the Tanach is the gospel of every Jew. Can you refute that? I didn't think so. Besides, not a single Jew wrote a single page of the NT. I think you don't know what is a Jew by definition. A Jew would not write against his own Faith. The NT leads the reader to Paul, not to Jesus. Paul was the one who founded Christianity in the city of Antioch if you read Acts 11:26. If you show me any thing in the Tanach which points to Jesus and that is not the product of your own Christian preconceived notions, I'll make a deal with you to become a Christian as you are.

 

[Beth Stitely]

You too Beth, and what a beautiful flesh if you come any closer to your avatar! Yes Beth, we all have come in the flesh, not only Jesus. And you did not know about that! Pity!

Ben, would love to see your avatar! You, who are named after Rachel's last born child, a beautiful name indeed. Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin, a seed of Abraham.

 

[Beth Stitely]

You too Beth, and what a beautiful flesh if you come any closer to your avatar! Yes Beth, we all have come in the flesh, not only Jesus. And you did not know about that! Pity!

Ben, please keep yourself safe in Israel. What a hot bed to live in...I couldn't imagine.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Ben, would love to see your avatar! You, who are named after Rachel's last born child, a beautiful name indeed. Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin, a seed of Abraham.

Yes, Paul was of the Tribe of Benjamin; that's why it was easier for him to leave Judaism and to found Christianity if you read Acts 11:26. Perhaps he was aware of Psalm 78:67-70 when HaShem rejected the Ten Tribes of Israel including Benjamin and confirmed Judah to remain alone as the only Kingdom before the Lord forever. For sure, he did not like that and formed an anti-Jewish religion to teach Replacement Theology to this day.

 

[Beth Stitely]

Yes, Paul was of the Tribe of Benjamin; that's why it was easier for him to leave Judaism and to found Christianity if you read Acts 11:26. Perhaps he was aware of Psalm 78:67-70 when HaShem rejected the Ten Tribes of Israel including Benjamin and confirmed Judah to remain alone as the only Kingdom before the Lord forever. For sure, he did not like that and formed an anti-Jewish religion to teach Replacement Theology to this day.

Do you read the New Testament Ben?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Ben, please keep yourself safe in Israel. What a hot bed to live in...I couldn't imagine.

I will Beth, don't worry honey! Last year, when the Hamas terrorists from Aza aka Gaza threw their rockets into Tel-Aviv, two of them fell in Ramat Gan the city I live and I saw one crossing the sky ending with a strange explosion. Sorry! I don't know why I am telling you this!

 

[Beth Stitely]

I will Beth, don't worry honey! Last year, when the Hamas terrorists from Aza aka Gaza threw their rockets into Tel-Aviv, two of them fell in Ramat Gan the city I live and I saw one crossing the sky ending with a strange explosion.

Really?!! That's terrifying! Oh my!

 

[Ben Avraham]

Do you read the New Testament Ben?

Yes Beth, even more often than you think. But the more I read it, the more Jewish I become.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Really?!! That's terrifying! Oh my!

See what I did! Now, I got you scared! Sorry!