Resurrection of Christ: Literal fact or spiritual reality?

[MHz]

As I have said to another on this thread, i acknowledge this is a plausible embellishment to an otherwise implausible story.

If you want to add importance and dept to the cross then allow it to be the completion of the bruise to the heel from Ge:3:15. Marking the 1/2 way point must have some importance. Having the bruise be manifest as Jesus going to the grave also has a lot of meaning to what happens during the completion of the other bruise.

This is one of numerous examples where the story lacks credibility as a literal, historic account of events. I believe you are too enamoured with Christianity to appreciate how strange this sounds.

Isaiah:53 states that it pleased God to 'bruise' Christ. That only sound sane if it is focusing that is was phase 1 of 2 phases that have to be completed before the new earth verses can be manifest into reality.
This is a good example of a topic that should use just a few chapters from the beginning and the end of the Bible as it covers the start of this earth and then it jumps to events that happen just before this earth ends and the perfected earth begins.

I see it as a mystical account like creation in genesis and Noah's ark.

The result of that is skepticism of the whole book which is the way it is supposed to be rather than accepting something you aren't fully convinced of. That being said you also have access to the original text that eliminates the need for anybody to explain what the book means other than yourself. (or be able to explain the parts you don't agree with in some referenced document)

The old earth version starts in 4,000BC as the end of day 7 and the end of day 1 would be in 4,000,000,000BC so God is introducing powers of 10 on page 1. The days are exponentially larger/smaller than the day that is next to it. Day 2 is 3.6B years long while day 3 360M years long. The process that is covered in Ge:1 covers the whole planet and it takes 4B years. The version in Ge:2 has Adam there so it is when God let moisture into the Garden area which was in 400,000BC until 40,000BC which is the start/end of day 6.
The other way that could be taken is Ge:1 is the creation of this earth, Ge:2 is a prophecy about the creation of the new earth and it would start where Re:22 leaves off with New Jerusalem descending to the new earth. The mist would come from the river of living water and Adam would be the first man to step out of that City and Eve and all their children would be standing behind them at that even.

There is a covenant between God and the other created flesh that was given to Adam and Eve and that is if any flesh was conceived on this earth then it will have that same life restored in the new earth era.

The symbolic flaming swords left to guard the garden are heat and wind so I would agree that it is used at times. That means most of the time it isn't. It is easy to verify for yourself is a short period of time. Read the vision in Daniel:2 and the explanation and answer the question about what it promotes, a literal series of events or a series of stories.
Now do that for the ones in Daniel:7 and in Revelation:17 as they cover the same events and judge for yourself what version it is promoting. Literal events should be your answer and that is there by the time you finish reading them. How they fit in takes a bit of talking but the core concept is there already.

Noah and the literal flood that took a full year to complete. (and a few days) The first thing a modern christian would consider that to cover the land with 22ft of water you would need to lower the ocean's level by 5ft. That is all the water that needs to be involved in a global flood. When it fell on the high hills and mountain tops it fell as snow and that is why it took 5 months before the bare rocks could be seen.

The animals that God brought to Adam should have still been around so that is all that would have needed to be on the Ark.

There should be tons of flood stories as the oceans rose fore then 400ft once the ice started melting.

This points to the text being correct for one version to hold water. One version that puts the Bible as the work of a single author for one thing. That the ending was already decided before creation was even started. That makes the book unusual, it increases when the number of related verses begins to be added up.

 

[pearl]

This is a good example of a topic that should use just a few chapters from the beginning and the end of the Bible as it covers the start of this earth and then it jumps to events that happen just before this earth ends and the perfected earth begins.

It may be the order in which we read them today, but not the order in which they were written.

The other way that could be taken is Ge:1 is the creation of this earth, Ge:2 is a prophecy about the creation of the new earth

Or it could be there are here two different traditions and the final editor chose to keep both.

That the ending was already decided before creation was even started.

The reason for creation.

 

[MHz]

It may be the order in which we read them today, but not the order in which they were written.



Or it could be there are here two different traditions and the final editor chose to keep both.



The reason for creation.

My point is that traditional thinking has it so our generation is tasked with trying to figure out what the Scribes were thinking about in their day. Revelations was in print by 100AD yet it is 1900 years later that readers are still arguing about what the various passages mean. The audience Revelations was written to is the generation that will be alive for the trumps and it should be our level of understanding that is applied to what the Scribes were writing.

Moses was supposed to be the final editor. Ge:1 is creation of the planet as witnessed by God and Ge:2 is creation of the garden portion of the planet once Adam was alive and it's progress would have been along the speed an area recovers from a volcano exploding.

In keeping with the theme of the verse below the new earth would have to be known before Job:14 was written and the 12 tribes viewed the grave as a prison so any members sent there also had a release date set by God where they would return from there.

Isa:42:9:
Behold,
the former things are come to pass,
and new things do I declare:
before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Isa:66:22:
For as the new heavens and the new earth,
which I will make,
shall remain before me,
saith the LORD,
so shall your seed and your name remain.

11 of the 12 books listed after Daniel were written before Daniel. The reason the move was a good one is all the prophecies in those books refer to what the end of Da:11 and the beginning of Da:12 are covering.

The Scribe of Revelations had all of the OT and all of the NT to reference before a decision was made about what it all meant, that was an advantage that was kept from Daniel. A lot of the OT was clouded so it's true meaning could not be pre-determined.
One of the first connections between the start and the end is Ge:3:15 and all of Re:12. That cannot be an 'accidental' incident. Revelations gives dates that apply to OT prophecy, such as the punishment in Isa:65 is 1,000 years long, to the extent that cannot all be 'accidental' also. Add it all up and it points to 1 author and 40 Scribes. That method would be used by Hollywierd to keep a screenplay secret, it was also used to keep the building of the a-bomb a secret as far as how it was accomplished.

The reason for creation was either the universe was an inheritance for Christ or God liked the feel of grass on His feet while strolling in the garden. I tend to go for both.

 

[pearl]

My point is that traditional thinking has it so our generation is tasked with trying to figure out what the Scribes were thinking about in their day.

It is impossible to make history or ancient culture or mindset, present to today, the best that can be done is a reconstruction to reach a probable hypotheses.

Moses was supposed to be the final editor.

But we know that the form we have today was compiled, reached its final form during the Babylonian Exile. A compilation of older oral and written traditions.

The reason for creation was either the universe was an inheritance for Christ

Christ was with God before creation.

God liked the feel of grass on His feet while strolling in the garden.

or for the love of His creatures.

 

[MHz]

It is impossible to make history or ancient culture or mindset, present to today, the best that can be done is a reconstruction to reach a probable hypotheses.

God obviously knows what the 'latter day generation' is doing and not doing as it was written about long ago. This generation is the first one that allows a reader to study the Bible compared to reading it or just hearing about it. Using an e-bible is the only way an in-depth study can happen when an individual is doing it.

If it is a record of the past written by people from the past and written to people from the past then it is meaningless for all intensive purposes. However if it was written in the past by writers how didn't understand what they were writing and what they recorded is understood by this generation then it stands to reason that the text was meant for this generation when it was given to Daniel long ago.

But we know that the form we have today was compiled, reached its final form during the Babylonian Exile. A compilation of older oral and written traditions.

Let's say that Daniel and his 3 friends were the ones that recorded the OT as we know it today. Hebrew and the English version in the 1611KJV are basically the same word for word. The fact that it had to be back to the same form as it was originally given by Moses and the other Prophets also suggest more is at work than just informing the people in the OT what was going on. When you start looking up similar terms having the exact text is more important than ever. It only takes a few examples to show that connection.

Christ was with God before creation.

That's very true and if Ge:1 is God's witness and Ge:2 is the Holy Spirit's version then this would be Christ's witness of creation.

Proverb:8:22-31:
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.
I was set up from everlasting,
from the beginning,
or ever the earth was.
When there were no depths,
I was brought forth;
when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Before the mountains were settled,
before the hills was I brought forth:
While as yet he had not made the earth,
nor the fields,
nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
When he prepared the heavens,
I was there:
when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
When he established the clouds above:
when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
When he gave to the sea his decree,
that the waters should not pass his commandment:
when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Then I was by him,
as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing always before him;
Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth;
and my delights were with the sons of men.

It still works out that Mary of Bethany, aka the Beloved Disciple, is the one person standing with Christ (as His wife) on a mountain top watching New Jerusalem descend to the earth.The rest of mankind is inside the City at that point and they exit the City after it lands.

or for the love of His creatures.

Having them being born into this earth is like becoming a seed for the start of the new earth verses where all of Adam and Eve's children will get instant nations full of 'other flesh' because their lives will also be remembered by the God of the Living at the appropriate time.

Lu:12:6:
Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings,
and not one of them is forgotten before God?
Lu:12:7:
But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Fear not therefore:
ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Isa:60:22:
A little one shall become a thousand,
and a small one a strong nation:
I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

 

[pearl]

It still works out that Mary of Bethany, aka the Beloved Disciple,

This is pure speculation.

Let's say that Daniel and his 3 friends were the ones that recorded the OT as we know it today.

But he was not.

Ge:1 is God's witness and Ge:2 is the Holy Spirit's version then this would be Christ's witness of creation.

As with any individual book of the Bible, Gen needs to be considered within its relation to the whole Pentateuch. Gen is God's providential preparation of the Israelite people. In its ending we find the explanation of where the immediate forefathers of the Israelite people originated, His chosen people.

 

[pearl]

On the baptism on the night of His return

Are you referring to the 'events' of Pentecost?

 

[ronandcarol]

Did Jesus physically rise from the dead or this an allegorical story?
Perhaps its both and maybe neither?
What is the best way of understanding this core Christian belief?

The ONLY way to understand this Christian Belief is by Faith.
ronandcarol

 

[MHz]

This is pure speculation.

That isn't the case at all and the references below are some of the better ones that points to Mary being the Beloved Disciple (of John the Baptist)

Joh:11:5:
Now Jesus loved Martha,
and her sister,
and Lazarus.

Lu:10:39-42:
And she had a sister called Mary,
which also sat at Jesus' feet,
and heard his word.
But Martha was cumbered about much serving,
and came to him,
and said,
Lord,
dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone?
bid her therefore that she help me.
And Jesus answered and said unto her,
Martha,
Martha,
thou art careful and troubled about many things:
But one thing is needful:
and Mary hath chosen that good part,
which shall not be taken away from her.

Joh:19:26:
When Jesus therefore saw his mother,
and the disciple standing by,
whom he loved,
he saith unto his mother,
Woman,
behold thy son!
Joh:19:27:
Then saith he to the disciple,
Behold thy mother!
And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Lu:24:10:
It was Mary Magdalene,
and Joanna,
and Mary the mother of James,
and other women that were with them,
which told these things unto the apostles.

Joh:1:40:
One of the two which heard John speak,
and followed him,
was Andrew,
Simon Peter's brother.

Joh:21:24:
This is the disciple which testifieth of these things,
and wrote these things:
and we know that his testimony is true.

There is quite a bit more to support that concept.

But he was not.

We just don't know do we. What has to have happened is God put the text into the same condition it was in when first given. Word for word and if the text was corrupted during that time there would be no other way to bring it back to perfection except God had a hand in it. As dedicated as the Levitates were they could not keep the text in the exact same form. Any other version put the reliability of the text into question. Being able to mesh the OT and the NT is proof the text survived, it only fits together one way, that there is a way puts it into a class by itself. If the speculation includes we are the intended reading audience then that adds even more drama.

You have a choice of accepting this prophecy was intended for the people of the day when the last reference seems to support the scattering had just taken place so there was much to happen before the tribulation that is so bad that prayers for safety will be answered. I fail to see what the prophecy would do to enhance the lives of the ones around to hear the original words. It is certainly helpful to the ones that face 'woes' in the last tribulation.

De:4:27-31:
And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations,
and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen,
whither the LORD shall lead you.
And there ye shall serve gods,
the work of men's hands,
wood and stone,
which neither see,
nor hear,
nor eat, nor smell.
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God,
thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
When thou art in tribulation,
and all these things are come upon thee,
even in the latter days,
if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God
he will not forsake thee,
neither destroy thee,
nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Re:1:7:
Behold,
he cometh with clouds;
and every eye shall see him,
and they also which pierced him:
and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.
Even so,
Amen.

Jas:1:1:
James,
a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad,
greeting.

As with any individual book of the Bible, Gen needs to be considered within its relation to the whole Pentateuch. Gen is God's providential preparation of the Israelite people. In its ending we find the explanation of where the immediate forefathers of the Israelite people originated, His chosen people.

My version isn't much different than than that.The 12 tribes become the 'seed of Eve' that is referenced in Ge:3:15.Moses brought in a change in Law and that happened to come into effect when that 'seed of Eve' was first collected. The 120 year time limit on judgment saw Moses become the first one to be under that condition.God took his life before that judgment so he can be resurrected as being sinless.That he lived right to that age points to him being as close as you can get without being innocent.
The 10 Commandments became the Law when the last 6 fingered giant was killed. They are the descendants of the fallen angels from Ge:6 and the law they were under is the same one men will be under when we become as immortal as the sons of God were that far back in time. The 600+ Laws were in place for Jesus to be able to rule by as well as being judged by, both by God and by the Temple Priests.
The 10 Commandments survived the changes that came in Acts:10, the other laws did not make the transition from things associated with the bruise to the heel and things associated with the bruise to the head from Ge:3:15. When that bruise is complete the whole House of Israel will be standing and be in the same condition Jesus was on the morning of His resurrection. The coming evening saw Him a condition that would allow Him to be touched.The whole House of Israel will go through that same transformation and that brings in a law that is applicable to sinless immortal beings rather than sinful mortal beings (need food and water to remain alive) The ones alive for the 1,000 years are the first to come under that law and the ones that are mentioned in Re:21 after the Great White Throne event are the last ones to come under that same law that will rule for the whole of the time called the new earth.

The Gentiles that will be alive for the 1,000 year reign would be the overcomers from the 7 churches and they are gathered through the Bible which was written by members of the 12 Tribes so they are 'adopted children' of the writers of the NT. That is how the Church comes to be covered from the dangers that come with the De:4:30 prophecy.

Re:12 starts off with Eve and then the next woman is Mary, the mother of Jesus and the last woman is Mary of Bethany, the writer of the Gospel of John (the Baptist) and Revelations. The Gentiles gathered to God through her writings are also as protected as the 144,000 from the 12 Tribes will be. That is the fulfillment of the 'few in numbers' part of that prophecy'. 144,000 for the 12 tribes and 1/3 of the population will survive for the Gentiles. Together they do the feast of the Tabernacles from Zec:14 and then they both enter New Jerusalem as that will be their eternal home in the new earth verses. They continue the same things but the 12 Tribes and the Church will both be in the promised land and the ones that come alive at the Great White Throne will be the ones coming to the City for a variety of feasts that is normal in a shepherd/flock relationship. The new earth is the universe as we know it as the angelic beings that call it home at the moment will move to their new heaven which is the same place the Great White Throne is. The people who live outside the City will see their population grow, the group calling the City home will be a static population.

Are you referring to the 'events' of Pentecost?

The morning that would be the 4th day after the cross.

Joh:20:19-23:
Then the same day at evening,
being the first day of the week,
when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews,
came Jesus and stood in the midst,
and saith unto them,
Peace be unto you.
And when he had so said,
he shewed unto them his hands and his side.
Then were the disciples glad,
when they saw the Lord.
Then said Jesus to them again,
Peace be unto you:
as my Father hath sent me,
even so send I you.
And when he had said this,
he breathed on them,
and saith unto them,
Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Whose soever sins ye remit,
they are remitted unto them;
and whose soever sins ye retain,
they are retained.

The only timing change was the last supper was the day before the Passover supper

Ac:2:1-4:
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come,
they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire,
and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost,
and began to speak with other tongues,
as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

[pearl]

My version isn't much different than than that.

I wasn't referring to any version, but that the Sinai event preceded the writing of Gen which is understood in the light of Exodus.

What has to have happened is God put the text into the same condition it was in when first given.

And here there is a fundamental difference in how we understand the formation of the Bible, God provided the inspiration, the word is human.

 

[MHz]

I wasn't referring to any version, but that the Sinai event preceded the writing of Gen which is understood in the light of Exodus.



And here there is a fundamental difference in how we understand the formation of the Bible, God provided the inspiration, the word is human.

The God of Abraham would have had the stories about God going back to Adam. When Moses related the stories any errors would have been 'corrected' just like any errors would have been corrected when the Torah went from an oral book to being a written book.
Without allowances for corrections the God of the Bible is not possible. We are also in an era where proof of God is not supposed to be available in any physical form.

This one point would make an interesting chat as I see all the events being mentioned as belonging to the literal world rather than the myths. The Bible is the only proof there is and an examination of it's structure might point to that being a plus or a minus as far as that goes. My argument is there are too many cross references for it to be the product of more than one single author.

 

[MJFlores]

Perhaps the biggest problem with this from a scriptural perspective is that Flesh can not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 15:50). It makes no sense to me, the same physical Jesus being brought to life. Jesus came form heaven (which is used by John symbolically) so would presume symbolism and allegory in way the author of Luke writes in Acts.

True "flesh" cannot inherit the kingdom of God. However in this is recorded:

1 Corinthians 15:35-55 New Living Translation (NLT)

But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?” What a foolish question! When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn’t grow into a plant unless it dies first. And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a bare seed of wheat or whatever you are planting. Then God gives it the new body he wants it to have. A different plant grows from each kind of seed. Similarly there are different kinds of flesh—one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.

There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit. What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like the heavenly man.

What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die, this Scripture will be fulfilled:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

That would happen to those who will be saved.

To those who will not be saved that would be a different matter.

 

[CG Didymus]

Don't confuse resurrection with resuscitation. The life of him who has risen from the dead is not once again the bio-logical form of our mortal life within history, it is new, different, beyond the mortal realm of the biological and history, surpassed by a greater power, the Resurrection narratives allow for seeing that the life of the Risen One lies, not within the historical biological but beyond and above it. Take the Emmaus story; Jesus is unrecognizable to the accustomed eye. He is discovered only in the realm of faith. The two recognize Him only by His interpretation of Scripture and the breaking of bread, a reference to the two basic elements in the early Christian worship, the liturgy of the word and the breaking of the bread.

So the corruptible flesh was transformed into incorruptible flesh? So Jesus could possibly appear and disappear? It could even rise into the sky, and to totally disappear, I've said to Adrian, why couldn't Jesus have gone into some spiritual dimension. Since Baha'i do believe in some other spiritual realm, I think that could explain for Adrian where Jesus went. So he doesn't have to keep saying that bodies can't go into space.

So a new transformed body explains everything. Jesus rose from the dead, appeared to his followers and disappeared into the clouds. But Baha'i still have a problem, because one of their "infallible" people said that the resurrection didn't happen as believed. It was the followers of Jesus, the Church, or what he likes to say, the Body. The Church is the Body of Christ, and they came back to life after three days... that is spiritual life. This explanation doesn't work, because Bahai's have to explain the appearances of Jesus. I forget what they say, so maybe Adrian will explain it again.

I don't see why Christians are arguing against this, though, because, as I recall, aren't there verses that say Christians will be transformed into "resurrection" bodies?

 

[Dawnofhope]

The ONLY way to understand this Christian Belief is by Faith.
ronandcarol

Some people will believe anything and kill in the name of the Father.

 

[pearl]

So the corruptible flesh was transformed into incorruptible flesh? So Jesus could possibly appear and disappear?

The NT writers agreed on a 'bodily' resurrection, but within that agreement there is a difference on the material properties they attribute to the risen body of Jesus. Paul, for instance, writes of a spiritual body to be possessed by the risen Christian relates to his 'flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God'. Luke insists Jesus' flesh and bones. What is critical for Luke, and I think for believers as well, is the identity ("It really is I"), Jesus continuity with his corporeal existence during his ministry. It is a question that is not going to be resolved intellectually. As scholarly research will show, for every position taken there is agreement and disagreement among them. It is a matter of faith, we do not know, we believe. If one does not believe in the super natural, belief in the Resurrection is not possible. For it is through the intervention of God, who raised Jesus to life.

people said that the resurrection didn't happen as believed.

As believed by who. To answer what was believed about resurrection at the time of Jesus it is necessary to look to the intertestamental period and the Jewish concept of resurrection which did not include a resurrected soul without a body?

There are probably various reasons Christians find in the NT accounts of the D/R that they find reasonable. For me personally it the events following Pentecost, from which the birth of the 'Body of Christ', the church.

 

[pearl]

when the Torah went from an oral book to being a written book.

There was a collection of ancient traditions which became what we now have in its present form due to the final editing during the Exile. It has been possible to distinguish multiple oral traditions. The basic historical narrative and legal codes are attributed to Moses, (13th cent?), passed on orally and finally into a national saga. At some point (after the division to a northern and southern , Israel and Judah) an oral narrative was put into writing for the first time. The last of the traditions to be in written form concerned the legal traditions of the Jerusalem priesthood, from ancient sources. These traditions were fused together giving us the present form of the Pentateuch.

Without allowances for corrections the God of the Bible is not possible. We are also in an era where proof of God is not supposed to be available in any physical form.

The amazing thing about the Bible, taken as a whole, it is self corrective. "Proof' of God is not possible, nor should it even be desired.

 

[Dawnofhope]

True "flesh" cannot inherit the kingdom of God. However in this is recorded:

1 Corinthians 15:35-55 New Living Translation (NLT)

But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?” What a foolish question! When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn’t grow into a plant unless it dies first. And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a bare seed of wheat or whatever you are planting. Then God gives it the new body he wants it to have. A different plant grows from each kind of seed. Similarly there are different kinds of flesh—one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.

There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit. What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like the heavenly man.

What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die, this Scripture will be fulfilled:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

That would happen to those who will be saved.

To those who will not be saved that would be a different matter.

I doubt if any of the gospel writers were actual eye witnesses to the events they wrote of. There is no evidence whatsoever that the author of the gospel of Mark was an eyewitness and is considered by scholars to be the first gospel written at least twenty years after the event, in all likelihood much later. Luke wasn't an eyewitness either. Both Mark and Luke according to conservative Christians were companions of Paul. Most scholars now accept that Matthew wasn't an eyewitness either. So where did they get their material? Most likely from the preaching of Paul. Who did Paul preach too? The Gentiles. Were stories about resurrected God's part of Greco-Roman culture. Almost certainly.

The story of the resurrection has so much profound meaning if taken as an allegory. While I respect the importance of a physical resurrection as a core belief for many Christians, there are too many problems with the story for many to accept it as being literal. The problems are multiple in regards to internal consistency of scripture, reason, and science.

One problem are the verses you have quoted from 1 Corinthians 15 which are part of a letter to the Church of Corinth, in the Greek region. The way I read it, Paul is talking about the life the soul that continues after physical death. To read it as a literal resurrection makes the account contorted and bizarre. Besides Paul Himself never saw the risen Christ, but heard Jesus speaking to him on the road to Damascus, well after the 40 days of alleged resurrection experiences by the disciples. Yet Paul likens his non-resurrection experiences with the alleged resurrection experiences of the disciples (1 Corinthians 15:7-8).

Paul's experience of Jesus as with the disciples at Pentecost was mystical. Paul's mystical experience is described in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 and that of the disciples summed by Peter's reference to the prophet Joel in Acts 2:16-18 . Such mystical experiences inspired the disciples and provided the impetus for them to spread the Gospel far and wide. The resurrected body is really the church or the body of faithful believers and there is an abundance of scripture to support that view.

 

[MJFlores]

I doubt if any of the gospel writers were actual eye witnesses to the events they wrote of. There is no evidence whatsoever that the author of the gospel of Mark was an eyewitness and is considered by scholars to be the first gospel written at least twenty years after the event, in all likelihood much later. Luke wasn't an eyewitness either. Both Mark and Luke according to conservative Christians were companions of Paul. Most scholars now accept that Matthew wasn't an eyewitness either. So where did they get their material? Most likely from the preaching of Paul. Who did Paul preach too? The Gentiles. Were stories about resurrected God's part of Greco-Roman culture. Almost certainly.

The story of the resurrection has so much profound meaning if taken as an allegory. While I respect the importance of a physical resurrection as a core belief for many Christians, there are too many problems with the story for many to accept it as being literal. The problems are multiple in regards to internal consistency of scripture, reason, and science.

One problem are the verses you have quoted from 1 Corinthians 15 which are part of a letter to the Church of Corinth, in the Greek region. The way I read it, Paul is talking about the life the soul that continues after physical death. To read it as a literal resurrection makes the account contorted and bizarre. Besides Paul Himself never saw the risen Christ, but heard Jesus speaking to him on the road to Damascus, well after the 40 days of alleged resurrection experiences by the disciples. Yet Paul likens his non-resurrection experiences with the alleged resurrection experiences of the disciples (1 Corinthians 15:7-8).

Paul's experience of Jesus as with the disciples at Pentecost was mystical. Paul's mystical experience is described in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 and that of the disciples summed by Peter's reference to the prophet Joel in Acts 2:16-18 . Such mystical experiences inspired the disciples and provided the impetus for them to spread the Gospel far and wide. The resurrected body is really the church or the body of faithful believers and there is an abundance of scripture to support that view.

You said: "So where did they get their material? Most likely from the preaching of Paul. Who did Paul preach too?"

The Lord Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to the apostles with a special purpose for them:

John 14:26 New International Version (NIV)

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Upon resurrection, the Lord Jesus appeared to them over a period of 40 days before being taken up to heaven.

Acts 1:1-3 New International Version (NIV)

In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.

And when the Holy Spirit was sent, they were able to speak in other tongues - the languages spoken during their time.

Acts 2:1-4 New International Version (NIV)

When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Therefore there was no coaching materials or library for them to compose or write the New Testament bible but everything was because of the Holy Spirit sent by God in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[pearl]

When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.

I think the contrast of the Apostles between the before and after is significant. Most deserted Jesus upon his arrest, fearing they would suffer the same outcome. From this group in fear of their lives emerged, hearts burning within, to proclaiming Jesus risen.

 

[MHz]

The amazing thing about the Bible, taken as a whole, it is self corrective. "Proof' of God is not possible, nor should it even be desired.

At some point the various points in the prophecies will begin to mesh in a way that is not possible with human writers Re:17 meshes very nicely with the vision and explanation from Da:7. A vision and explanation that is not clear, we have the opportunity to pit together what was with-held from Daniel.

Da:7:28:
Hitherto is the end of the matter.
As for me Daniel,
my cogitations much troubled me,
and my countenance changed in me:
but I kept the matter in my heart.

Da:12:9:
And he said,
Go thy way,
Daniel:
for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.