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Resurrection of Christ
- Thread starter redwine
- Start date
Forgive me, but the poll didn't come out like I planned. In the fourty day period, between His death and ascension, yes physical, yet at the same time spiritual, for He was both seen and felt, and then appeared and disappeared at will. But I think since ascension and especially since Pentecost, it would be more akin to a Spiritual body. How else could Christ be 'in' us?
Peace.
Mr. Peanut
Active Member
Hi!
Christ rose physically from the grave and is now in Heaven. Christ (God) is "in" us by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (God), who has quickened (made alive) us, and is the downpayment and seal of our souls, God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident.
Cheers!
Where is Heaven? Is it somewhere way outside this galaxy or closer? I think it's much closer. Where He dwells, is this where He reigns? So, according to you, Christ is in a physical body in Heaven, somewhere, and it's not actually Christ who is in us? Is this correct?
Jesus rose in the flesh. He still had the marks of his crucifixion to show to Thomas. In the Kingdom of God, whatever that is, He is in glorified form. Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is among us.
K.Venugopal
Immobile Wanderer
Jesus Christ did not die on the cross. He was unconscious and got up after 3 days. He eventually died after 40 days. There is an ancient Hindu story that says a young husband was rekindled into life by the God of Death after his bride's stout intercession. In both, cases of near-death experience interpreted as miracle to convey higher spiritual truths.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Because it is not Christ's body that gives life.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Making up as you go along is fun isn't it?
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
Abdu'l Baha explains it in Some Answered Questions, p. 99-102
The resurrections of the Divine Manifestations are not of the body. All Their states, Their conditions, Their acts, the things They have established, Their teachings, Their expressions, Their parables and Their instructions have a spiritual and divine signification, and have no connection with material things. For example, there is the subject of Christ's coming from heaven: it is clearly stated in many places in the Gospel that the Son of man came from heaven, He is in heaven, and He will go to heaven. So in chapter 6, verse 38, of the Gospel of John it is written: "For I came down from heaven"; and also in verse 42 we find: "And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?" Also in John, chapter 3, verse 13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
3Observe that it is said, "The Son of man is in heaven," while at that time Christ was on earth. Notice also that it is said that Christ came from heaven, though He came from the womb of Mary, and His body was born of Mary. It is clear, then, that when it is said that the Son of man is come from heaven, this has not an outward but an inward signification; it is a spiritual, not a material, fact. The meaning is that though, apparently, Christ was born from the womb of Mary, in reality He came from heaven, from the center of the Sun of Reality, from the Divine World, and the Spiritual Kingdom. And as it has become evident that Christ came from the spiritual heaven of the Divine Kingdom, therefore, His disappearance under the earth for three days has an inner signification and is not an outward fact. In the same way, His resurrection from the interior of the earth is also symbolical; it is a spiritual and divine fact, and not material; and likewise His ascension to heaven is a spiritual and not material ascension.
4Beside these explanations, it has been established and proved by science that the visible heaven is a limitless area, void and empty, where innumerable stars and planets revolve.
5Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ's resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.
6Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection. But as the clergy have neither understood the meaning of the Gospels nor comprehended the symbols, therefore, it has been said that religion is in contradiction to science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this subject of the ascension of Christ with an elemental body to the visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics. But when the truth of this subject becomes clear, and the symbol is explained, science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the intelligence affirm it.
The resurrections of the Divine Manifestations are not of the body. All Their states, Their conditions, Their acts, the things They have established, Their teachings, Their expressions, Their parables and Their instructions have a spiritual and divine signification, and have no connection with material things. For example, there is the subject of Christ's coming from heaven: it is clearly stated in many places in the Gospel that the Son of man came from heaven, He is in heaven, and He will go to heaven. So in chapter 6, verse 38, of the Gospel of John it is written: "For I came down from heaven"; and also in verse 42 we find: "And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?" Also in John, chapter 3, verse 13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
3Observe that it is said, "The Son of man is in heaven," while at that time Christ was on earth. Notice also that it is said that Christ came from heaven, though He came from the womb of Mary, and His body was born of Mary. It is clear, then, that when it is said that the Son of man is come from heaven, this has not an outward but an inward signification; it is a spiritual, not a material, fact. The meaning is that though, apparently, Christ was born from the womb of Mary, in reality He came from heaven, from the center of the Sun of Reality, from the Divine World, and the Spiritual Kingdom. And as it has become evident that Christ came from the spiritual heaven of the Divine Kingdom, therefore, His disappearance under the earth for three days has an inner signification and is not an outward fact. In the same way, His resurrection from the interior of the earth is also symbolical; it is a spiritual and divine fact, and not material; and likewise His ascension to heaven is a spiritual and not material ascension.
4Beside these explanations, it has been established and proved by science that the visible heaven is a limitless area, void and empty, where innumerable stars and planets revolve.
5Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ's resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.
6Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection. But as the clergy have neither understood the meaning of the Gospels nor comprehended the symbols, therefore, it has been said that religion is in contradiction to science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this subject of the ascension of Christ with an elemental body to the visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics. But when the truth of this subject becomes clear, and the symbol is explained, science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the intelligence affirm it.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "a life-giving spiritual body." If you could explain, I might be able to comment on whether or not I agree with you. He clearly did have a glorified physical body, though. He pointed that out to His Apostles after His resurrection. That's pretty much hard for any Christian to argue with, it seems to me.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
At the risk of ticking off Sandy with my response I can honestly say that to my understanding the Christ was not "raised" as stated in the various so-called "scriptures" of man. Although I am not overly impressed with the writings of the Bahai founders, the answer quoted by Popeyesays is actually not too bad, nor is it too far off the mark in SOME respects. It is certainly far better than the "learned" opinions of others presented here. I always find it terribly amusing how people will blather on and on about subjects they have no actual knowledge of, to the extent that they even imply that others are incorrect or making things up as they go. That point is not lost on me and I fully realize my own viewpoint could be inaccurate but at least I openly allow for that to be possible, lol.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
If Christ "in us" is a metaphor. We are, for example, the "body of Christ" by the power of "Christ in us." Both are obviously metaphors... if we take both of them literally, in the sense that we are literally the body of Christ and Christ is literally in us, Christ would not be human.
Hello, I should of posted the verses where 'a life-giving spirit' came from. Here they are:
(1Co 15:44 LITV) It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body; there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
(1Co 15:45 LITV) So also it has been written, "The" first "man", Adam, "became a living soul;" the last Adam a life-giving Spirit. Gen. 2:7
(1Co 15:46 LITV) But not the spiritual first, but the natural; afterward the spiritual.
(1Co 15:47 LITV) The first man was out of earth, earthy. The second Man was the Lord out of Heaven. Gen. 2:7
(1Co 15:48 LITV) Such as is the earthy man, such also are the earthy ones. And such as is the heavenly Man, such also are the heavenly ones.
(1Co 15:49 LITV) And as we bore the image of the earthy man, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
(1Co 15:50 LITV) And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
These verses are clear on the resurrection, and I like these too:
(1Co 15:35 LITV) But someone will say, How are the dead raised? And with what body do they come?
(1Co 15:36 LITV) Foolish one! What you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
(1Co 15:37 LITV) And what you sow, you do not sow the body that is going to be, but a bare grain, (it may be of wheat, or of some of the rest),
(1Co 15:38 LITV) and God gives it a body according as He willed, and to each of the seeds its own body.
Interesting here, where it says, 'what you sow, you do not sow the body that is going to be'. First natural physical body, then the spiritual body, albeit a body, but not of flesh. These all tie in good with these from the OT:
(Jer 18:1 LITV) The Word which was to Jeremiah from Jehovah, saying,
(Jer 18:2 LITV) Rise up and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause you to hear My Words.
(Jer 18:3 LITV) Then I went down to the potter's house, and behold, he was working a work on the wheel.
(Jer 18:4 LITV) And the vessel that he made in clay was ruined in the hand of the potter. So repeating he made it, another vessel, as it seemed good in the potter's eyes to make it.
(Jer 18:5 LITV) And the Word of Jehovah was to me, saying,
(Jer 18:6 LITV) O house of Israel, can I not do to you as this potter? says Jehovah. Behold, as the clay in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel.
God is Spirit and if we believe He is creating us into His image, then wouldn't that be Spirit. What greater gift could He possible give to us, than the glory of His Spirit.
(Col 1:26 LITV) the mystery having been hidden from the ages and from the generations, but now was revealed to His saints;
(Col 1:27 LITV) to whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the nations, who is Christ in you, the hope of glory;
Hope this helps. Peace.
Mr. Peanut
Active Member
Hi!
The Bible does not say where Heaven is. We know Jesus went to be with his Father in Heaven, is preparing a place for us and is seated at the Father's right hand. Personally, I would imagine Heaven is not in our galaxy.
Yes, he reigns in Heaven, awaiting until all his enemies be made his footstool. Yet, at present, although in complete control, he is not reigning here on earth, yet, but he will, for a thousand years.
Not entirely. Christ is said to be in us through the agency of the Holy Spirit, both of whom are God,
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Notice in this verse, we are in the Spirit--the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God dwells in us, and we have the Spirit of Christ as well. These are all God in us. Jesus said, I and my father are one, and that as he is in the Father, and we are in him, we are one with the father, we are the sons of God.
Notice below that the Spirit of Christ worked in the prophets before Christ had come to earth as Immanuel, being interpreted God with us,
Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Further on in the passage it speaks of the Gospel being preached, aided by the Holy Spirit. I hope that answers your question.
Cheers!
K.Venugopal
Immobile Wanderer
When life itself is a miracle, do we need to enhance it with stories?
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Thanks Captian Obvious.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
The same reason we enhance it with art, music, and literature.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
Astute observation from an Athiest? who would have guessed.
by the way, it still astounds me that athiests would even care enough to spend time in a "religious" forum,..... that's always boggled my head.