Resurrection of Christ

[Dirty Penguin]

No, your reasoning disgards so much of what is written in the Bible

I highly doubt you are equipped to show me something in the scriptures that I have overlooked that proves Yeshua was God. So far he shows us he isn't...

you act as though you are so right on with your Biblical analysis and that others (like myself) just believe that jesus is god b/c of the christian doctrines.

Well, don't you? I haven't seen one statement from the man where he said he was....only vague statements from people here which have been taken out of context or the letters of men who never met him who thought him to be something he clearly shows he isn't.

I can only speak for myself but quoting Biblical verses like this does not discredit one thing I have said.

Look, before you get all hot and bothered about what I said please know that I wasn't even responding to anything "you" said. I responded to Katzpur who was responding to Muffled.....:sarcastic

She asked a trinitarian a question and I merely informed her it was a waste of her time to go down that road.....

 

[Muffled]

Then it was not essential for Him to die on the cross. All flesh dies, it is the order of this contingent universe.

Regards,
Scott

All flesh dies but not the same way. Jesus died as the sacrifice of the Passover lamb. "Behold, the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world" said by john the Baptist of Jesus.

Jesus had to die onthe cross to fulfill prophecy, the most notable that his bones would not be broken in light of the fact that the two thieves had their legs broken to speed up death. The need to break legs is peculiar to a death on a cross.

 

[Muffled]

I am talking about physical life, after all even Jesus died. NBo man has lived forever. Flesh corrupts, and is absorbed into other living things. It is lost without trace, it is dust in the wind.

The spirit never dies, but it is immoprtal not eternal since every thing in the universe had a moment of commencement before which it did not exist.

Regards,
Scott

Scott are you trying to say that flesh dies on its own as a natural law of science. There is a major flaw in your thinking. Things tend to remain the same unless there is a force that changes them. (This is the law of Conservation) Our bodies deteriorate as they age because there is a built in aging mechanism. Our bodies are also built to die and be reborn over and over again. However neither of these functions are necessary but are simply the way god designed them. He is fully capable of designing a body without the aging mechanism.

The resurrected Jesus does not return to the aging body but to one that does not age.
When the end time resurrection of the dead and the physical change of the living takes place it will be to a body that doesn't age. Jesus truly ushers in eternal life in the physcical as well as the spiritual sense. Why do you think that Methusalah lived over 800 years? It was because the remnants of the body that doesn't age were still strong in him along with the Adamic aging process that eventually led to his death.

 

[Francine]

Obviously you lack any type of logic regarding crucificition and the type of pain one would endure...

Pain isn't the issue, it's shock. Jesus was whipped to within an inch of his life before he was nailed up there.

 

[lew0049]

Pain isn't the issue, it's shock. Jesus was whipped to within an inch of his life before he was nailed up there.

Definitely, the gospel of john illustrates this medical condition, as Jesus was experiencing Hypovolemic shock. Meaning when he was pierced in the side on the cross, blood and water poured out.
This indicates Jesus was already in a critical state before being nailed on this cross.
Furthermore, the mental/psychological stress is illustrated as Jesus was sweating blood the night before.

With both of these medical conditions, two important factors arise:
1. These conditions are very rare - one has to go through a SEVERE amount of psychological stress
2. Any medical scholar would say that hypovolemic shock would led to cardiac arrest as there would be a tremendous amount of blood loss. You can't simply "pass out" during crucificition and still maintain the ability to breath. Its a theory that has no possible factual basis.

 

[Francine]

Any medical scholar would say that hypovolemic shock would led to cardiac arrest as there would be a tremendous amount of blood loss. You can't simply "pass out" during crucificition and still maintain the ability to breath. Its a theory that has no possible factual basis.

If I was trying to play dead after being flogged 72 times with barbed wire and then crucified for six hours, a Roman soldier sticking a spear into my liver would probably blow my deception wide open.

 

[Popeyesays]

Scott are you trying to say that flesh dies on its own as a natural law of science. There is a major flaw in your thinking. Things tend to remain the same unless there is a force that changes them. (This is the law of Conservation) Our bodies deteriorate as they age because there is a built in aging mechanism. Our bodies are also built to die and be reborn over and over again. However neither of these functions are necessary but are simply the way god designed them. He is fully capable of designing a body without the aging mechanism.

The resurrected Jesus does not return to the aging body but to one that does not age.
When the end time resurrection of the dead and the physical change of the living takes place it will be to a body that doesn't age. Jesus truly ushers in eternal life in the physcical as well as the spiritual sense. Why do you think that Methusalah lived over 800 years? It was because the remnants of the body that doesn't age were still strong in him along with the Adamic aging process that eventually led to his death.

The design work has already been done--both for the physical bodies and the rational soui. The physical body has physical limitations which the rational soul does not share.

Show me in the Gospels where this undying body is promised?

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

Scott are you trying to say that flesh dies on its own as a natural law of science. There is a major flaw in your thinking. Things tend to remain the same unless there is a force that changes them. (This is the law of Conservation) Our bodies deteriorate as they age because there is a built in aging mechanism. Our bodies are also built to die and be reborn over and over again. However neither of these functions are necessary but are simply the way god designed them. He is fully capable of designing a body without the aging mechanism.

The resurrected Jesus does not return to the aging body but to one that does not age.
When the end time resurrection of the dead and the physical change of the living takes place it will be to a body that doesn't age. Jesus truly ushers in eternal life in the physcical as well as the spiritual sense. Why do you think that Methusalah lived over 800 years? It was because the remnants of the body that doesn't age were still strong in him along with the Adamic aging process that eventually led to his death.

The design work has already been done--both for the physical bodies and the rational soui. The physical body has physical limitations which the rational soul does not share.

Show me in the Gospels where this undying body is promised?

Regards,
Scott

 

[lew0049]

The design work has already been done--both for the physical bodies and the rational soui. The physical body has physical limitations which the rational soul does not share.

Show me in the Gospels where this undying body is promised?

Regards,
Scott

Scott,
First, sorry that I haven't responded to your email awhile ago, I will try to make time tonight.

The physical body has physical limitations which the rational soul does not share.

I completely agree that the physical body has physical limitations just like the laws of gravity govern us on earth, we can try intervene w/ these laws but the reality is that we will always be "limited" so to speak, to the law of gravity.
The argument you are proposing though, is not the hypothesis presented - that God raised Jesus from the dead.
The argument you present is that a natural resurrection of Jesus from the dead, without divine intervention, is pretty much impossible (and I agree).
The hypothesis involving the Ressurection of Jesus is that God raised Jesus from the dead - nothing in this hypothesis says anything against the lawss of nature, which says dead men don't come back to life naturally. (which would fully encompass any and all physical limitations)

 

[Popeyesays]

Scott,
First, sorry that I haven't responded to your email awhile ago, I will try to make time tonight.



I completely agree that the physical body has physical limitations just like the laws of gravity govern us on earth, we can try intervene w/ these laws but the reality is that we will always be "limited" so to speak, to the law of gravity.
The argument you are proposing though, is not the hypothesis presented - that God raised Jesus from the dead.
The argument you present is that a natural resurrection of Jesus from the dead, without divine intervention, is pretty much impossible (and I agree).
The hypothesis involving the Ressurection of Jesus is that God raised Jesus from the dead - nothing in this hypothesis says anything against the lawss of nature, which says dead men don't come back to life naturally. (which would fully encompass any and all physical limitations)

There is a problem to proposing that all of humanity will return to physical life in physical bodies. The supposition is that all the material comes back to make the same body.

When an atom of carbon was created in the core of a Population 1 star, it was made available to be used over and over. If it wound up here in the fiber of a plant twenty million years ago and provided food for a dinosaur and became part of its body and passed into the soil and became eventually part of a human body, and then another human b ody and another on and on--who lays claim to ownership on the day of resurrection? me or the guy who "owned" it a century before?

Flesh dies, corrupt and is absorbed into other organisms? How can that atom be availbe to ONE person who used it on one day and not b e availoable to a different person who had it in his body decades before?

Spirit is eternal, flesh is dust.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Captain Civic]

If I was trying to play dead after being flogged 72 times with barbed wire and then crucified for six hours, a Roman soldier sticking a spear into my liver would probably blow my deception wide open.

And yet, 'intelligent' anti-Christians love to trot it out.

 

[Francine]

When an atom of carbon was created in the core of a Population 1 star, it was made available to be used over and over.

"It is believed that Population II stars created all the other elements in the periodic table, except the more unstable ones."

Metallicity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[lew0049]

There is a problem to proposing that all of humanity will return to physical life in physical bodies. The supposition is that all the material comes back to make the same body.

When an atom of carbon was created in the core of a Population 1 star, it was made available to be used over and over. If it wound up here in the fiber of a plant twenty million years ago and provided food for a dinosaur and became part of its body and passed into the soil and became eventually part of a human body, and then another human b ody and another on and on--who lays claim to ownership on the day of resurrection? me or the guy who "owned" it a century before?

Flesh dies, corrupt and is absorbed into other organisms? How can that atom be availbe to ONE person who used it on one day and not b e availoable to a different person who had it in his body decades before?

Spirit is eternal, flesh is dust.

Regards,

Scott

I am not tallking about all of humanity here Scott, I am talking about the resurrection of Jesus. The above response has very little to do w/ the information in my post as you are trying to link scientific theories w/ divine intervention.

 

[Popeyesays]

I am not tallking about all of humanity here Scott, I am talking about the resurrection of Jesus. The above response has very little to do w/ the information in my post as you are trying to link scientific theories w/ divine intervention.

Lew,

You're missing my mark too. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Apostles witnessed something of divine origin and direct intervention. The body with which Christ appeared to the Apostles was whatever the Apostles needed to see to convince them of It's reality.

That is not evidence that it was the self-same corpse which came down from the cross. And certainly the spiritual reality of the resurrection within the hearts of Christ's followers that saved them from giving up the Cause of God in that day was by far the most imp-ortant part of the event.

Regards,

Scott

 

[lew0049]

Lew,

You're missing my mark too. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Apostles witnessed something of divine origin and direct intervention. The body with which Christ appeared to the Apostles was whatever the Apostles needed to see to convince them of It's reality.

That is not evidence that it was the self-same corpse which came down from the cross. And certainly the spiritual reality of the resurrection within the hearts of Christ's followers that saved them from giving up the Cause of God in that day was by far the most imp-ortant part of the event.

Regards,

Scott

Gotcha, I follow what you are saying Scott.

Based on what is recorded in Luke 24:37-43 though, spirit's cannot eat and/or have flesh or bones. You have to admit Scott, that from an objective point of view (setting aside our faith), the evidence presented in Luke indicates that it was not merely a spirit. I'm not saying that is what you believe, but simply based on the Biblical evidence.

-chip

 

[Popeyesays]

Gotcha, I follow what you are saying Scott.

Based on what is recorded in Luke 24:37-43 though, spirit's cannot eat and/or have flesh or bones. You have to admit Scott, that from an objective point of view (setting aside our faith), the evidence presented in Luke indicates that it was not merely a spirit. I'm not saying that is what you believe, but simply based on the Biblical evidence.

-chip

As I said the resurrected body of Jesus manifested Itself in whatever form the Apostles required. Luke's definition of the word "spirit" is a word that acvtually means "ghost".

The body of Jesus was not a "ghost".

Regards,
Scott

 

[Vor]

Hi!

Christ rose physically from the grave and is now in Heaven. Christ (God) is "in" us by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (God), who has quickened (made alive) us, and is the downpayment and seal of our souls, God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident.

Cheers!

how is Jesus "sitting at M- right while - make your enemies a foot stool for your feet"
if Jesus is G-d?