resurrection

[starlite]

I was just looking at the one in Matthew as well and so that the one in Luke has 14 more daddy's in it than Matthew which almost leads me into believing that the one in Luke would almost make the person much older of the two parents. We know that Yoseph was older than Miriam and by a good bit from what I understand. Is this possible that the Luke account is that of Yoseph and the Matthew account is that of Miriam? With some given discrepencies?

Not sure this will help...it's a lot to chew on, go slow, please. It makes sense.
Why do the genealogies of Jesus Christ as given by Matthew and by Luke differ?

The difference in nearly all the names in Luke’s genealogy of Jesus as compared with Matthew’s is quickly resolved in the fact that Luke traced the line through David’s son Nathan, instead of Solomon as did Matthew. (Lu 3:31; Mt 1:6, 7) Luke evidently follows the ancestry of Mary, thus showing Jesus’ natural descent from David, while Matthew shows Jesus’ legal right to the throne of David by descent from Solomon through Joseph, who was legally Jesus’ father. Both Matthew and Luke signify that Joseph was not Jesus’ actual father but only his adoptive father, giving him legal right. Matthew departs from the style used throughout his genealogy when he comes to Jesus, saying: “Jacob became father to Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.” (Mt 1:16) Notice that he does not say ‘Joseph became father to Jesus’ but that he was “the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born.” Luke is even more pointed when, after showing earlier that Jesus was actually the Son of God by Mary (Lu 1:32-35), he says: “Jesus . . . being the son, as the opinion was, of Joseph, son of Heli.”—Lu 3:23.

Since Jesus was not the natural son of Joseph but was the Son of God, Luke’s genealogy of Jesus would prove that he was, by human birth, a son of David through his natural mother Mary. Regarding the genealogies of Jesus given by Matthew and by Luke, Frederic Louis Godet wrote: “This study of the text in detail leads us in this way to admit—1. That the genealogical register of Luke is that of Heli, the grandfather of Jesus; 2. That, this affiliation of Jesus by Heli being expressly opposed to His affiliation by Joseph, the document which he has preserved for us can be nothing else in his view than the genealogy of Jesus through Mary. But why does not Luke name Mary, and why pass immediately from Jesus to His grandfather? Ancient sentiment did not comport with the mention of the mother as the genealogical link. Among the Greeks a man was the son of his father, not of his mother; and among the Jews the adage was: ‘Genus matris non vocatur genus [“The descendant of the mother is not called (her) descendant”]’ (‘Baba bathra,’ 110, a).”—Commentary on Luke, 1981, p. 129.

Actually each genealogy (Matthew’s table and Luke’s) shows descent from David, through Solomon and through Nathan. (Mt 1:6; Lu 3:31) In examining the lists of Matthew and Luke, we find that after diverging at Solomon and Nathan, they come together again in two persons, Shealtiel and Zerubbabel. This can be explained in the following way: Shealtiel was the son of Jeconiah; perhaps by marriage to the daughter of Neri he became Neri’s son-in-law, thus being called the “son of Neri.” It is possible as well that Neri had no sons, so that Shealtiel was counted as his “son” for that reason also. Zerubbabel, who was likely the actual son of Pedaiah, was legally reckoned as the son of Shealtiel, as stated earlier.—Compare Mt 1:12; Lu 3:27; 1Ch 3:17-19.

Then the accounts indicate that Zerubbabel had two sons, Rhesa and Abiud, the lines diverging again at this point. (These could have been, not actual sons, but descendants, or one, at least, could have been a son-in-law. Compare 1Ch 3:19.) (Lu 3:27; Mt 1:13) Both Matthew’s and Luke’s genealogies of Jesus vary here from that found in 1 Chronicles chapter 3. This may be because a number of names were purposely left out by Matthew and possibly also by Luke. But the fact should be kept in mind that such differences in the genealogical lists of Matthew and Luke are very likely those already present in the genealogical registers then in use and fully accepted by the Jews and were not changes made by Matthew and Luke.

We may conclude, therefore, that the two lists of Matthew and Luke fuse together the two truths, namely, (1) that Jesus was actually the Son of God and the natural heir to the Kingdom by miraculous birth through the virgin girl Mary, of David’s line, and (2) that Jesus was also the legal heir in the male line of descent from David and Solomon through his adoptive father Joseph. (Lu 1:32, 35; Ro 1:1-4) If there was any accusation made by hostile Jews that Jesus’ birth was illegitimate, the fact that Joseph, aware of the circumstances, married Mary and gave her the protection of his good name and royal lineage refutes such slander.
I like this point also.....The lists made by both Matthew and Luke were comprised of names publicly recognized by the Jews of that time as authentic. The scribes and Pharisees as well as the Sadducees were bitter enemies of Christianity, and they would have used any possible argument to discredit Jesus, but it is noteworthy that they never challenged these genealogies. If either Matthew’s or Luke’s genealogy of Jesus had been in error, what an opportunity it would have been for these opponents to prove it then and there! For until 70 C.E. they evidently had ready access to the public genealogical registers and the Scriptures.

 

[starlite]

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This would help my research into the law of marrying sisters. I feel it may have been possible for one to legally marry his half sister but I am still studying this.

While pondering your quest for sister marriage info, I remembered these Bible accounts:

The Bible record does indicate that Cain married one of his sisters (Gen. 4:17; 5:4) and that Abram married his half sister. (Gen. 20:12) But later, in the Law given through Moses, such marriage unions were specifically forbidden. (Lev. 18:9, 11)

Why was brother-and-sister marriage not inappropriate at the beginning of mankind’s history? God created Adam and Eve perfect and purposed that all humankind descend from them. (Gen. 1:28; 3:20) Obviously, in order to populate the earth, some marrying of close relatives, especially within the first few generations, would occur. Even after sin made its appearance, there was relatively little danger of marked deformities in the children during early generations, because the human race was much closer to the perfection that had been enjoyed by Adam and Eve. This is attested to by the longevity of people then. ( Genesis 5:3-8; 25:7.)

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

At what point were these words said? As recorded by John (the Baptizer) at John 1:32-34 who was an eyewitness to the baptism of Jesus, may it be noted that a voice from heaven said "You are my Son". The other Gospel writers also spoke of the baptism of Jesus ( Luke 8:21,22; Matthew 3:17 and Mark 1:11) and the voice of the Heavenly Father acknowledging Jesus as his son.

Could it at all be possible that the voice was speaking of the malach that just desended down as a dove to posess Yahshua? could that spirit be the son in which was there from the beginning? The word?

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

So far all I have found is regarding Levirate or Brother-in-law marriage....nothing concerning women:

No, I am speaking about where Abram married sarai his half sister. I know that most if not all will and have said because this is pre-Sinai but I am looking into the law being around since Adam. Not just that law but most if not all of the law.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Not sure this will help...it's a lot to chew on, go slow, please. It makes sense.
Why do the genealogies of Jesus Christ as given by Matthew and by Luke differ?

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[S-word]

Could it at all be possible that the voice was speaking of the malach that just desended down as a dove to posess Yahshua? could that spirit be the son in which was there from the beginning? The word?

You are correct, it was the man Jesus who had been born of human parents, namely Mary and her half brother Joseph, who had both been sired by Heli, who was made high priest in the line of Melchizedek, meaning that he would not only come through the priestly line of Levi, but also through the Kingly line of Judah, for Melchizedek, is both king and high priest to the Lord.

Both John and Mark begin their account of the 'chosen heir to the throne of Godhead within the creation,' with the baptism of the man Jesus when he was filled with the spirit of the only exception of all mankind to have ascended into the eighth eternal heaven of Light, even the Son of Man who IS in heaven, John 3: 13, who, unblemished, and at the age of 365 cycles, he was taken to the throne of godhead and chosen as the heir to Adam, (God's first born son see Luke 3: 38,) having been redeemed by the blood of righteous Abel, where he was stripped of his mortal Garments and rubbed with the sweet smelling ointmet of God (Christ means: 'The Anointed one') which shone with the brilliance of the sun and behold, he was as one of the glorious ones, there, in the position of God's first born, he was to stand before the face of Adam, where clothed and girded in fire, he would serve God before the body of Adam (Mankind) into all eternity.

According to the more ancient authorities of Luke 3: 22, the man Jesus was born of the spirit when the voice from heaven was heard to say, "Thou art my beloved in whom I am pleased, today I have begotten thee," for unless a man be born again he can in no wise see or enter the Kingdom od God, that which is born of the flesh, which Jesus was, is flesh, but that is spirit which is born of the spirit, which Jesus was when he was filled with the spirit from on high, which then led him into the wilderness where he was tempted for forty days. And the Son of Man, who was the physical image of the God of this world, had to lifted up in like manner, as Moses lifted up the Serpent in the wilderness, in order that all who are dying from the venom of the accusing spirit, only have to turn their minds eye to the Image of the serpent who has been lifted up to receive the glory in the presence of God in the assembly of the gods, that he had before this world was made.

The man Jesus died to who he was in order that our indwelling Father Spirit Enoch, to who all the spirits of good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness, had been gathered, Enoch the 365 cycle unblemished Lamb of God, who although being the same as the godhead refused to cliam equality with him. Our indwelling Father began dying in the process of involution as his chosen heir began the process of spiritual growth by evolution. Quickening the spirits who were asleep within the enclosure that was our Father, from the least to the greatest, he diminished into nothingness as his chosen heir who was ever obedient to 'Who He Was' increased in wisdom, knowledge and insight with the awakening within him of the required number of righteous spirits who had all paid the blood price of any sin in their past, meaning that Jesus, who was ever obedient to his ancestral spirit was sinless.

When the compilation of all those righteous spirits, 'Enoch,' had become Jesus the compilation of all those righteous spirits who had all paid the blood price for the sin of their Earthly life, He who was both the Father and The son, was then led into the wilderness to be tempted. After Jesus was made dead in the flesh, but alive in spirit, he went and preached to those who had been disobedient in the day before the flood this was where he inherited the throne of our indwelling Father, reborn in the body of Noah the first Melchizedek. This was where he was placed in the throne of our indwelling Father as the cornerstone, to who would be gathered all the spirits of good people who fall asleep in righteousness, in the creation the new Temple of Light in which and upon this earth, the Lord will rule the whole world visible and invisible, with justice.

From the ‘Book of Enoch the Prophet’ CVI: 1-6, “Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore a son. And his body was as white as snow and as red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair on his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. And thereupon he arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. And his father Lamech was afraid of him, (Just as Eve was terrified when she first saw Cain the shinning one and thought to kill him) and Lamech fled and ran to his father Methuselah. And he said to him: “I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different, and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious. And it seems that he is not sprung from me, but from the angels. And I fear that in his days, a wonder may be wrought on the earth.

A Quote from starlite..........Luke is even more pointed when, after showing earlier that Jesus was actually the Son of God by Mary (Lu 1:32-35), he says: “Jesus . . . being the son, as the opinion was, of Joseph, son of Heli.”—Lu 3:23.


Nowhere in Luke 1: 32-35, does Luke say that Jesus was actually the Son of God, that he would be called the Son of God, yes, for he became the Son of God when he was filled with the spirit of the most high. Even though the (As was supposed) was a later interpolation which was inserted in brackets, it serves to show that it was the opinion of the people in those days, that Jesus was not the son of Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah, but the biological son of Joseph the Son of Heli the father of Mary, who the young virgin must have met for the first time when she, with many of the Levite relatives had gathered to rejoice with Elizabeth in what would have appeared as a miracle. It was when Mary, the unmarried female returned that she was found to be pregnant with child, which conception was concealed in the shadows beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits as Prophesied by Isaiah, who used the Hebrew word ‘Almah,’ which means (Concealment: unmarried female) whereas, had it been his intention to infer that a virgin would conceive, he would have used the specific Hebrew term for ‘Virgin,’ which is ‘Bethulah.’

 

[S-word]

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This would help my research into the law of marrying sisters. I feel it may have been possible for one to legally marry his half sister but I am still studying this.



So why do you think they put this in Matthew?

No where has it been said that Joseph the son of Heli, had legally married his half sister Mary the daughter of Heli.
When the young virgin Mary, went to the gathering of the family and friends of her cousin, Elizabeth of the daughters of Levi, Mary, the as yet unmarried female returned pregnant with the child that was conceived in her womb in the shadows beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits, as Prophesied by Isaiah, who used the Hebrew word 'Almah' instead of "Bethulah' which is the specific Hebrew term for 'Virgin', in his famous prophecy, which word, 'Almah,' means (Concealment: unmarried female.)


It was then that Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah, found out that the woman to whom he was betrothed was pregnant, and was going to anul his engagement to her, but when told that she was pregnant with the child of God's promise, according to the workings of the Holy spirit, he went ahead and married her, which marriage was only consummated after she had given birth to the first of her three biological sons.

 

[S-word]

While pondering your quest for sister marriage info, I remembered these Bible accounts:

The Bible record does indicate that Cain married one of his sisters (Gen. 4:17; 5:4) and that Abram married his half sister. (Gen. 20:12) But later, in the Law given through Moses, such marriage unions were specifically forbidden. (Lev. 18:9, 11)

Why was brother-and-sister marriage not inappropriate at the beginning of mankind’s history? God created Adam and Eve perfect and purposed that all humankind descend from them. (Gen. 1:28; 3:20) Obviously, in order to populate the earth, some marrying of close relatives, especially within the first few generations, would occur. Even after sin made its appearance, there was relatively little danger of marked deformities in the children during early generations, because the human race was much closer to the perfection that had been enjoyed by Adam and Eve. This is attested to by the longevity of people then. ( Genesis 5:3-8; 25:7.)

God also says that a parent should not be held responsible for the sins of their child, nor should a child by held accountable for the sins of their Parent, and yet God says that he will hold the descendants accountable for the sins of their parents down to the fourth generation.

God held the fourth generation descendants of the Amalekites accountable for the sins of that generation who opposed Israel when they were returning from Egypt, others may try to say that God punished the Amalekites for some other reason, but they would be lying.

1 Samuel 15: 1-3, Samuel said to Saul, Now listen to what the Lord Almighty says, He is going to punish the people of Amelek because their ancestors oppossed the Israelites when they were returning from Egypt (For no other reason). "Go and attack the Amalekites and completely destroy everything they have. Dont leave a thing; kill all the men, women, children, and babies; the cattle, sheep, camels, and donkeys."

Quote starlite.....But later, in the Law given through Moses, such marriage unions were specifically forbidden. (Lev. 18:9, 11)
Don't go flouting the law in God's face, for God is above the law and God does what God does to fullfil his plan and his purpose.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

You are correct,

Cool, but it will take me half a lifetime to take in all that you have just posted.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

No where has it been said that Joseph the son of Heli, had legally married his half sister Mary the daughter of Heli.
When the young virgin Mary, went to the gathering of the family and friends of her cousin, Elizabeth of the daughters of Levi, Mary, the as yet unmarried female returned pregnant with the child that was conceived in her womb in the shadows beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits, as Prophesied by Isaiah, who used the Hebrew word 'Almah' instead of "Bethulah' which is the specific Hebrew term for 'Virgin', in his famous prophecy, which word, 'Almah,' means (Concealment: unmarried female.)


It was then that Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah, found out that the woman to whom he was betrothed was pregnant, and was going to anul his engagement to her, but when told that she was pregnant with the child of God's promise, according to the workings of the Holy spirit, he went ahead and married her, which marriage was only consummated after she had given birth to the first of her three biological sons.

o.k. Thanks.

 

[S-word]

Cool, but it will take me half a lifetime to take in all that you have just posted.

Then here’s a little more for you to take in and this pertains to the resurrection, the topic of this thread from which we have been side tracked, and something that I should have mentioned earlier, but you don’t have a half of a life time to take it all in, unless you are a very young man.

Crucifixion was a rite in the mysteries of many countries and especially those of Egypt, See ‘The Secret Doctrines,’ vol. 11, p. 558. The initiated adept, who had successfully passed all the trials, was tied to a cross deep inside a Temple Crypt or cave, he was then drugged and plunged into a deep sleep in which state, in the darkness of the bowels of the earth, he remained for three days and three nights, during which time his spirit=mind, is said to have descended into Hades to communicate with the gods.

1 Peter 4: 18-20, For Christ was put to death physically, but made alive spiritually, and in his spiritual existence he descended into the world of the dead and preached the good news to those who were disobedient in the days when Noah was building the boat. Chapter 4: 6, and the good news was preached to the dead, (According to the time period of the Roman Empire in which Jesus was born) to those who had been judged in their physical existence as all are judged, so that in their spiritual existence they might live as God lives and God is the indwelling spirit to whom all the spirits of good people who fall asleep in righteousness are gathered.

Those spirits to whom Jesus had descended and preached the good news, those who had been Judged in the flesh as all are judged and had been found worthy of the first resurrection, are the spirits that were poured out as fire on the heads of all those who had believed the words of our saviour which were spoken through the mouth of his obedient servant Jesus, and they in their spiritual existence, now dwell within the body of mankind, gathering to themselves the good spirits (who fall asleep in righteousness) of the descendants of the ones, who on the day of Pentecost received their share of the hidden Manna, a living spiritual cell of the body of our indwelling Father, our saviour who gave his immortal life for us and who rose Jesus from death as the first fruits of those who are to be redeemed from the dead past of the only exception of all mankind, who, at the age of 365 was carried into the eighth heaven. And they, the spiritual cells of the immortal Son of MAN who now live in their spiritual existence as God lives, will be resurrected as the body of Jesus Christ their heavenly head and compilation.

When they have each gathered to themselves the required number of righteous spirits who have paid the blood price for the sins of their life on earth, and they who are but the compilation of those enclosures of spirits who do not have to suffer the second death, will choose from among mankind, each one, an obedient servant, who, like the Man Jesus are prepared to die to ‘Who They Are,’ in order to become He, their indwelling Father who is the compilation of all the righteous spirits who have paid the blood price for the sins of their earthly life. They of the first resurrection, who will be reborn on earth in the bodies of their obedient servants, will take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule the Sabbath, the day of the Lord.

But first, Just as David the old king, gathered to himself the so called misfits and dregs of society, who do not condemn as satanic, the commands of their inner being, He who prepares the way for the peaceful rule of the resurrected body of Christ in Jerusalem, by bringing those nations which surround the Holy city into submission and who had put to death all those priests who worshipped their God in the form of a mortal man, is soon to appear.

 

[starlite]

is soon to appear.

Yes, I do believe that Jesus Christ was a human here on earth, and that since his resurrection he is ruling as a Heavenly King and will soon reappear to rule over a cleansed earth. And yes, there are those righteous ones who experience the first resurrection to join Jesus Christ in his heavenly kingdom.

 

[Luminous]

We shall see about such a bold prediction based on nothing but faith. Soon, the Era of Aquarius shall come and this world will be cleansed from these impurities (all religions). At such a time, the world shall be in peace as Agnosticism rules.

 

[Luminous]

I do not believe that the phisical body of Jesus was resurected because such a believe would require too much assumption.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Yes, I do believe that Jesus Christ was a human here on earth, and that since his resurrection he is ruling as a Heavenly King and will soon reappear to rule over a cleansed earth.

I believe that Yahshua was a flesh and blood man like the rest of us that from birth was no more special than the rest of us with the exception that he was chosen to be the one prophesized to, after purification and possession of that malach that came down as a dove, fulfill said prophecies of the Mashiach. He is our priest and propitiator at this time but on his return he will be our ruling King. At the present Helel has been given the dominion of the earth for he said himself…………..

Luk 4:5 The devil, leading him up on a high mountain, showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Luk 4:6 The devil said to him, "I will give you all this authority, and their glory, for it has been delivered to me; and I give it to whomever I want.
Luk 4:7 If you therefore will worship before me, it will all be yours."

But when Yahshua returns, oh boy look out.

 

[starlite]

I believe that Yahshua was a flesh and blood man like the rest of us that from birth was no more special than the rest of us with the exception that he was chosen to be the one prophesized to, after purification and possession of that malach that came down as a dove, fulfill said prophecies of the Mashiach. He is our priest and propitiator at this time but on his return he will be our ruling King. At the present Helel has been given the dominion of the earth for he said himself…………..

Luk 4:5 The devil, leading him up on a high mountain, showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Luk 4:6 The devil said to him, "I will give you all this authority, and their glory, for it has been delivered to me; and I give it to whomever I want.
Luk 4:7 If you therefore will worship before me, it will all be yours."

But when Yahshua returns, oh boy look out.

Definitely!!! Dare I say "Amen" ?

 

[S-word]

Definitely!!! Dare I say "Amen" ?

When you say that you believe that Jesus was a man, like every human being and that is, having been born of human parents, are you saying that you reject the false teaching of the Anti-Christ who refuses to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being, and you believe that he was not born of a virgin, but that he was born of male and female human parents? I mean, you would not call Thor a human being, would you?

 

[S-word]

I do not believe that the phisical body of Jesus was resurected because such a believe would require too much assumption.

So, there are many people such as yourself, who refuse to believe the Bible, and that is your choice.

 

[starlite]

It was when Mary, the unmarried female returned that she was found to be pregnant with child, which conception was concealed in the shadows beneath the wings of the Lord of Spirits as Prophesied by Isaiah, who used the Hebrew word ‘Almah,’ which means (Concealment: unmarried female) whereas, had it been his intention to infer that a virgin would conceive, he would have used the specific Hebrew term for ‘Virgin,’ which is ‘Bethulah.’

This is how I understand the word "virgin"
Although the Hebrew word bethu·lah′ means “virgin,” another term (‛al·mah&#8242 appears at Isaiah 7:14: “Look! The maiden [ha·‛al·mah′] herself will actually become pregnant, and she is giving birth to a son, and she will certainly call his name Immanuel.” The word ‛al·mah′ means “maiden” and can apply to a nonvirgin or a virgin. It is applied to “the maiden” Rebekah before marriage when she was also called “a virgin” (bethu·lah&#8242. (Ge 24:16, 43) Under divine inspiration, Matthew employed the Greek word par·the′nos (virgin) when showing that Isaiah 7:14 found final fulfillment in connection with the virgin birth of Jesus, the Messiah. Both Matthew and Luke state clearly that Jesus’ mother Mary was then a virgin who became pregnant through the operation of God’s holy spirit.—Mt 1:18-25; Lu 1:26-35.

 

[starlite]

('Heli,' by the way, is the Greek adaptation of the Hebrew 'Eli' the high priest.)

I can not find any connection between these two individuals:

(E′li) [Ascended; Gone Up].

In the case of Israel’s high priest Eli, his sons, Hophni and Phinehas, served as officiating priests but “were guilty of injustice towards men, and of impiety towards God, and abstained from no sort of wickedness,” says historian Josephus. These “good-for-nothing men” did not acknowledge the true God, engaged in sacrilegious conduct, and were guilty of gross immorality. (1 Samuel 1:3; 2:12-17, 22-25) As their father and Israel’s high priest, Eli had the duty to discipline them, but he merely reproved them mildly. Eli ‘kept honoring his sons more than God.’ (1 Samuel 2:29) Retribution came upon the house of Eli. Both sons died the same day as their father, and their priestly line was eventually cut off completely. Thus the judgment of God on Eli’s house was fulfilled, and his descendants were ousted from the high-priestly office for all time.—1Sa 3:13, 14; 4:11, 17, 18.

(He′li) [from Heb., meaning “High (Exalted)”].

Evidently the father of Mary and maternal grandfather of Jesus Christ. (Lu 3:23) Joseph’s being called the “son of Heli” is understood to mean that he was the son-in-law of Heli. While not listing her, Luke evidently traces the natural descent of Jesus’ mother Mary from David.—Lu 3:31