resurrection

[S-word]

Resurrection

In the case of the biblical Yeshua, IMO, it was the same body of some one who wasn't dead. It, IMO, was an earthly body of a man. As described, he still had the would in his side. There would no reason for him to present himself to them with a wound because that's how they remembered him considering NONE of them were an eyewitness to his supposed crucifixion.

Matthew 13: 55, reveals the four brothers of Jesus, James, Joseph Simeon and Judas. Judas the brother of Jesus was also called Thomas the twin; the twin to who? According to John, Thomas Jude, the brother of Jesus who was called the twin, was not present on the night following the resurrection, when Cleophas was talking to the eleven disciples, among who were Simon Peter and Simon the patriot and said, ”He has risen, he appeared to Simon” and it was then that the body that those in the dimly let room recognised as Jesus appeared and ate with them.

Of course Matthew makes no mention of Jesus appearing to the disciples in the room on the night after the resurrection, according to Matthew, the women were told by Jesus to tell the disciples to go to Galilee and there they would see him, which they did. And although Mark has Jesus appearing while the 11 disciples were eating, he does not say whether this happened in Jerusalem or Galilee, but it would appear that it had to have been in Galilee where Matthew had said that on a hill in Galilee, Jesus was taken to heaven, for it is written there in Mark 14-19, that after he had finished talking to them after their meal, he was taken up to heaven.

Luke has Cleophas and his son Simon who was the brother of Jesus and to who Jesus revealed himself in the manner in which he broke the bread at Emmaeus talking to the eleven disciples when Jesus appeared among them, whether or not the room is locked is not mentioned, but according to Luke, that was the only time that he appeared to them, See Luke 24: 36-50, for after he finished speaking with them he led them out of the city (Presumably Jerusalem) as far as Bethany (Which is not in Galilee) where he departed from them and was taken up to heaven.

John has Jesus appearing to his disciples three times, Sunday evening, while Thomas the twin was not present and the doors are locked, but still Jesus appears among them, then a week later, when Thomas the twin is with the them in the locked room, Jesus appears among them, then on the third instance he appeared to seven of his disciples who were fishing on Lake Galilee, but John makes no mention of Jesus being taken up to heaven. Believe as you will.

 

[Breathe]

I suppose with regards to the OP, if Jesus was resurrected physically, then the disciples would have been able to know that he was indeed resurrected from the dead (swoon theory becomes more likely with this) as opposed to merely the spirit being brought onto this earth - if Jesus was not a physical body, then his disciples would have both believed he was a ghost, or something - in short, to lend credibility to his resurrection to those who saw him die.

As to whether or not I believe it happened, I'm not sure, but to me this would be a good reason for why Jesus could/would have been resurrected physically.

Well, I didn't express that very clearly.. that sounded an awful lot like dribble...

 

[S-word]

I suppose with regards to the OP, if Jesus was resurrected physically, then the disciples would have been able to know that he was indeed resurrected from the dead (swoon theory becomes more likely with this) as opposed to merely the spirit being brought onto this earth - if Jesus was not a physical body, then his disciples would have both believed he was a ghost, or something - in short, to lend credibility to his resurrection to those who saw him die.

As to whether or not I believe it happened, I'm not sure, but to me this would be a good reason for why Jesus could/would have been resurrected physically.

Well, I didn't express that very clearly.. that sounded an awful lot like dribble...

The spirit of what you said is good, a little more pratice and your words will manifest perfectly, the spirit that is you.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Resurrection


Matthew 13: 55, reveals the four brothers of Jesus, James, Joseph Simeon and Judas. Judas the brother of Jesus was also called Thomas the twin; the twin to who? According to John, Thomas Jude, the brother of Jesus who was called the twin, was not present on the night following the resurrection, when Cleophas was talking to the eleven disciples, among who were Simon Peter and Simon the patriot and said, ”He has risen, he appeared to Simon” and it was then that the body that those in the dimly let room recognised as Jesus appeared and ate with them.

Of course Matthew makes no mention of Jesus appearing to the disciples in the room on the night after the resurrection, according to Matthew, the women were told by Jesus to tell the disciples to go to Galilee and there they would see him, which they did. And although Mark has Jesus appearing while the 11 disciples were eating, he does not say whether this happened in Jerusalem or Galilee, but it would appear that it had to have been in Galilee where Matthew had said that on a hill in Galilee, Jesus was taken to heaven, for it is written there in Mark 14-19, that after he had finished talking to them after their meal, he was taken up to heaven.

Luke has Cleophas and his son Simon who was the brother of Jesus and to who Jesus revealed himself in the manner in which he broke the bread at Emmaeus talking to the eleven disciples when Jesus appeared among them, whether or not the room is locked is not mentioned, but according to Luke, that was the only time that he appeared to them, See Luke 24: 36-50, for after he finished speaking with them he led them out of the city (Presumably Jerusalem) as far as Bethany (Which is not in Galilee) where he departed from them and was taken up to heaven.

John has Jesus appearing to his disciples three times, Sunday evening, while Thomas the twin was not present and the doors are locked, but still Jesus appears among them, then a week later, when Thomas the twin is with the them in the locked room, Jesus appears among them, then on the third instance he appeared to seven of his disciples who were fishing on Lake Galilee, but John makes no mention of Jesus being taken up to heaven. Believe as you will.

I understand what you mean...."Believe as you will"...


Here's the thing.....and I'm not saying I believe any of the stuff written in that book...What I'm saying is that the information presented is that none of the disciples witnessed his supposed crucifixion. They heard about what had happened (rumored). When Yeshua was amongst them, as reported in the Bible, he explained to them who he was and asked them to touch him, his hands, his feet and handle him because he was NOT a spirit. He was flesh, blood and bone. We knew he was a mere man because he was hungry and asked for something to eat. He ate what they gave him to eat. Now I understand all that you just posted but none of this disproves him appearing to them in physical form. In fact, his apeearence to them, as he described, was indeed in physical form.

 

[S-word]

I understand what you mean...."Believe as you will"...

Here's the thing.....and I'm not saying I believe any of the stuff written in that book...What I'm saying is that the information presented is that none of the disciples witnessed his supposed crucifixion. They heard about what had happened (rumored). When Yeshua was amongst them, as reported in the Bible, he explained to them who he was and asked them to touch him, his hands, his feet and handle him because he was NOT a spirit. He was flesh, blood and bone. We knew he was a mere man because he was hungry and asked for something to eat. He ate what they gave him to eat. Now I understand all that you just posted but none of this disproves him appearing to them in physical form. In fact, his apeearence to them, as he described, was indeed in physical form.

I know that you're not saying that you believe any of the stuff written in the Bible, but somehow the spirit of your words confirm that you do, even though you have not yet come to a clear understanding of what you have read. But yes, Jesus did appear to his disciples in human form, then later, he appeared to Paul as a body of brilliant and blinding light which he describes as being brighter than the sun, who revealed himself to Paul as being Jesus of Nazareth, see Acts 9: 5, Acts 22:8, and Acts 26: 12-15.

 

[James Humphreys]

The only thing that conceivably can be resurrected is the body. The spirit never dies so it cannot be reborn. To be resurrected is to come back to life. I would agree with you that the spirit transcends the body. I take this to mean that a spirit can exist as a cognizant entity either outside of a body or inside a body. When a person dies, his spirit leaves his body but does not cease to exist. The physical body is said to be dead but the spirit continues to live. Resurrection takes place when the spirit re-enters a body, restoring it to life again. This is why it doesn't make sense to me to think of Jesus' spirit to have been resurrected.

Hello Katzpur, sorry to get in on this discussion so late. I agree that the spirit cannot die, in the sense of being snuffed out and ceasing to exist. But I think the idea of spiritual death is very biblical, which is portrayed as being a separation from the love of God. Spiritual resurrection would then be the process by which one draws closer to God and his love, and leaves Satan behind. Of course Jesus was completely united with God, both before and after his crucifixion, and was in no sense spiritually dead. However, to me Jesus' victory on the cross meant that he opened up a realm of spiritual resurrection for all believers previously unattainable, the realm called Paradise.

 

[Katzpur]

Hello Katzpur, sorry to get in on this discussion so late. I agree that the spirit cannot die, in the sense of being snuffed out and ceasing to exist. But I think the idea of spiritual death is very biblical, which is portrayed as being a separation from the love of God. Spiritual resurrection would then be the process by which one draws closer to God and his love, and leaves Satan behind. Of course Jesus was completely united with God, both before and after his crucifixion, and was in no sense spiritually dead. However, to me Jesus' victory on the cross meant that he opened up a realm of spiritual resurrection for all believers previously unattainable, the realm called Paradise.

Hello, James. (Good name, by the way. It was my father's name and is also my son's name.)

I agree with everything you said. I just don't think your answer was complete. Jesus Christ's Atonement, in my opinion, redeemed mankind from both physical and spiritual death.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

In regards to Dirty Penguin's belief that Jesus was never crucified...did not some of the women that traveled with him stay by the cross?

 

[S-word]

In regards to Dirty Penguin's belief that Jesus was never crucified...did not some of the women that traveled with him stay by the cross?

You should read more carefully what is said before you jump in, although we can all be found guilty of having done the same, Dirty penguin may not believe in the crucifixation and resurrection of Christ, but he he was right when he said that the disciples did not witness the crucifixation, and had relied on the report of the women who had witnessed his death, for verification that he had indeed died.

 

[Katzpur]

Dirty penguin may not believe in the crucifixation and resurrection of Christ, but he he was right when he said that the disciples did not witness the crucifixation

Where were they during His crucifixion?

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Where were they during His crucifixion?

They were hiding.

 

[Katzpur]

Where were they during His crucifixion?

And we know this how? Please be specific, as I really don't know the answer to question. I had always assumed that at least some of them were present and I'm aware of nowhere that we're told than none of them were.

 

[Lucius7]

Hello Katzpur, sorry to get in on this discussion so late. I agree that the spirit cannot die, in the sense of being snuffed out and ceasing to exist. But I think the idea of spiritual death is very biblical, which is portrayed as being a separation from the love of God. Spiritual resurrection would then be the process by which one draws closer to God and his love, and leaves Satan behind. Of course Jesus was completely united with God, both before and after his crucifixion, and was in no sense spiritually dead. However, to me Jesus' victory on the cross meant that he opened up a realm of spiritual resurrection for all believers previously unattainable, the realm called Paradise.

That is actually a reasonably accurate interpretation of what the scriptures verify. When Iesos Christos (Jesus the Christ) was killed his body died literally. His spirit did not cease to exist because His spirit is part of the Divine GOD. When He was ressurected physically he was given a new body even though He was ressurected into the remains of the same body. He resurrected physically because GOD's entire plan and purpose for humanity is to ultimately resurrect HIS Elect physically and spiritually into HIS Divine Family. The physical ressurection of Christ was given by GOD to mankind of HIS ultimate ability and faithfulness that HE can and will do what HE has promised to mankind. When Christ was resurrected humanity was given a physical record of the true ressurection of a human being in exact accordance with the fulfillment of biblical prophecy regarding the Messiah and ressurections. For those Apostles and disciples who were able to see Him, they were given an incredible assurance that GOD will do exactly as HE promised- An actual physical ressurrection of the mass of humanity will occur prior to the fulfillment of GODs plan and purpose to and for humanity. The first of these ressurrections will occur for the elect, then for the mass of humanity, and finally for the wicked dead who will then face destruction.

 

[Katzpur]

That is actually a reasonably accurate interpretation of what the scriptures verify. When Iesos Christos (Jesus the Christ) was killed his body died literally. His spirit did not cease to exist because His spirit is part of the Divine GOD. When He was ressurected physically he was given a new body even though He was ressurected into the remains of the same body. He resurrected physically because GOD's entire plan and purpose for humanity is to ultimately resurrect HIS Elect physically and spiritually into HIS Divine Family. The physical ressurection of Christ was given by GOD to mankind of HIS ultimate ability and faithfulness that HE can and will do what HE has promised to mankind. When Christ was resurrected humanity was given a physical record of the true ressurection of a human being in exact accordance with the fulfillment of biblical prophecy regarding the Messiah and ressurections. For those Apostles and disciples who were able to see Him, they were given an incredible assurance that GOD will do exactly as HE promised- An actual physical ressurrection of the mass of humanity will occur prior to the fulfillment of GODs plan and purpose to and for humanity. The first of these ressurrections will occur for the elect, then for the mass of humanity, and finally for the wicked dead who will then face destruction.

Sounds pretty right on the mark to me.

 

[S-word]

Where were they during His crucifixion?

It would appear that they were in fear of the authorities and were in hiding, that is, all except the disciple that Jesus loved who was standing by the cross with the mother of Jesus who was the wife of Cleophas whose name is also Alpheaus who is the biological father of James the full brother of Jesus, who was the youngest of the three biological sons of Mary whose second born son was named after his father Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah.

James was the first to sit upon the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision and was succeeded by his half brother Simon the son of Cleophas to another union other than that of Mary. Cleophas means ‘Of a renowned father’ and is the abbreviation of Cleopatros, the masculine of Cleopatra the wife of Herod the Great, the mother of Philip and sister to Heli.

 

[Lucius7]

Hello Katzpur, sorry to get in on this discussion so late. I agree that the spirit cannot die, in the sense of being snuffed out and ceasing to exist. But I think the idea of spiritual death is very biblical, which is portrayed as being a separation from the love of God. Spiritual resurrection would then be the process by which one draws closer to God and his love, and leaves Satan behind. Of course Jesus was completely united with God, both before and after his crucifixion, and was in no sense spiritually dead. However, to me Jesus' victory on the cross meant that he opened up a realm of spiritual resurrection for all believers previously unattainable, the realm called Paradise.

According to scripture, spiritual death can occur. However, the concept of a spiritual death as being seperation from GOD is more widely a slight misinterpretation of the Christian perspective which also largely belives in a hell where this seperation occurs. Since the bible clearly does not support the existence of the christian hell that train of human logic is not entirely accurate.

However, the bible does give account that all of sin will ultimately be completely destroyed. Both Satan and His demons as well as the wicked dead will all be completely destroyed by fire so that nothing of them remains. Literally they are seperated from GOD and they do die, however we are already seperated from GOD and have been ever since Adam and Eve ate of the fruit. GODs whole plan and purpose for humanity is based around being ultimately reunited with GOD. Since we are seperate from GOD now and are still alive the premise behind your perspective is flawed.

GOD makes it clear that all the spiritual deaths that will occur all occur at the same time at the end of 7,000 years and a short time after that. In other words you can't really spiritually die on accident or on purpose although a few can actually inherit that spiritual death to come at a later time.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

And we know this how? Please be specific, as I really don't know the answer to question. I had always assumed that at least some of them were present and I'm aware of nowhere that we're told than none of them were.

S-word answered this rather nicely. Todah Ahkee.

 

[S-word]

According to scripture, spiritual death can occur. However, the concept of a spiritual death as being seperation from GOD is more widely a slight misinterpretation of the Christian perspective which also largely belives in a hell where this seperation occurs. Since the bible clearly does not support the existence of the christian hell that train of human logic is not entirely accurate.

However, the bible does give account that all of sin will ultimately be completely destroyed. Both Satan and His demons as well as the wicked dead will all be completely destroyed by fire so that nothing of them remains. Literally they are seperated from GOD and they do die, however we are already seperated from GOD and have been ever since Adam and Eve ate of the fruit. GODs whole plan and purpose for humanity is based around being ultimately reunited with GOD. Since we are seperate from GOD now and are still alive the premise behind your perspective is flawed.
GOD makes it clear that all the spiritual deaths that will occur all occur at the same time at the end of 7,000 years and a short time after that. In other words you can't really spiritually die on accident or on purpose although a few can actually inherit that spiritual death to come at a later time.

Isaiah 57: 1, Good people die, and no one understands or even cares. But when good people die, no calamity can hurt them. Those who lead good lives find peace and rest in death.

Here we see the state of rest that the good people who are gathered to the bosom of Abraham enter into while they await the resurrection from the world of the dead, and in the story told by Jesus of Lazarus and the rich man, we see the state of torment that the unrighteous enter into as they await the second death, which is that of their mind, which comes after the first death which is that of the body.

 

[Katzpur]

S-word answered this rather nicely.

I would like to read this for myself. I need something more to go on than "it would appear that..."

 

[S-word]

I would like to read this for myself. I need something more to go on than "it would appear that..."

Because you are not led by the spirit that Jesus sent into the world, you will always want more.