Return of Christ

[Muffled]

Nah.

And even if it were all true, I would throw my lot in with Lucifer who, as far as I can see, appears to be the hero of the Bible.

I believe my understanding the lot of lucifer is to be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Mycroft]

I believe my understanding the lot of lucifer is to be cast into the lake of fire.

I guess that's what god does to those who try to free minds.

Better to die in a lake of fire than live as a robot in Heaven. Your god has nothing I fear to threaten me with.

 

[Sonofason]

that verse doesnt say anything about living in heaven, does it?

To perish means to die. Apparently, to get to heaven, you must first die a physical death.

So dont you see how this verse is actually speaking about a 'continued' existence as you are right now??? 'everlasting life'

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

Is this describing a continued existence?

 

[Pegg]

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

Is this describing a continued existence?

that verse is speaking of christians who have already died and who receive the 'first' resurrection.

the book of revelation limits their number to 144,000 who are to rule with Christ in the heavenly kingdom.

The rest of mankind are said to inherit the earth and 'live forever upon it'

Most of mankind will stay right here.

 

[InChrist]

that verse is speaking of christians who have already died and who receive the 'first' resurrection.

the book of revelation limits their number to 144,000 who are to rule with Christ in the heavenly kingdom.

The rest of mankind are said to inherit the earth and 'live forever upon it'

Most of mankind will stay right here.

The scriptures are extremely clear concerning the first and second resurrections and also go to great lengths to identify the 144,000 as literal descendants of the tribes of Israel, not Gentile Christians.


"Daniel 12:2 summarizes the two very different fates facing mankind: “Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Everyone will be raised from the dead, but not everyone will share the same destiny. The New Testament reveals the further detail of separate resurrections for the just and the unjust.

Revelation 20:4-6 mentions a “first resurrection” and identifies those involved as “blessed and holy.” The second death (the lake of fire, Revelation 20:14) has no power over these individuals. The first resurrection, then, is the raising of all believers. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:14) and the “resurrection of life” (John 5:29).

The first resurrection takes place in various stages. Jesus Christ Himself (the “first fruits,” 1 Corinthians 15:20), paved the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him. There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection. Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4).

Revelation 20:12-13 identifies those comprising the second resurrection as the wicked judged by God at the great white throne judgment prior to being cast into the lake of fire. The second resurrection, then, is the raising of all unbelievers; the second resurrection is connected to the second death. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29)."

Read more: What is the first resurrection? What is the second resurrection?
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[james2ko]

that verse is speaking of christians who have already died and who receive the 'first' resurrection.

the book of revelation limits their number to 144,000 who are to rule with Christ in the heavenly kingdom.

The rest of mankind are said to inherit the earth and 'live forever upon it'

Most of mankind will stay right here.

It amazes me how you can undoubtedly prove someone wrong from the scriptures and they continue to spread the error. If the forum ever came out with an unshakable bias award ribbon, you would definitely have my vote.

 

[Pegg]

It amazes me how you can undoubtedly prove someone wrong from the scriptures and they continue to spread the error. If the forum ever came out with an unshakable bias award ribbon, you would definitely have my vote.

well, of course i would happily wear that ribbon

 

[james2ko]

well, of course i would happily wear that ribbon

I do appreciate your honesty about being wrong.

 

[Sonofason]

that verse is speaking of christians who have already died and who receive the 'first' resurrection.

the book of revelation limits their number to 144,000 who are to rule with Christ in the heavenly kingdom.

The rest of mankind are said to inherit the earth and 'live forever upon it'

Most of mankind will stay right here.

Focus your attention:
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

 

[Muffled]

I guess that's what god does to those who try to free minds.

Better to die in a lake of fire than live as a robot in Heaven. Your god has nothing I fear to threaten me with.

I beleive I was in Heaven and not a robot although all my thinking had to be good thinking. There is a reat deal of freedom withn the confines of being good.

That is fine but you surely understand in order for there to be good those who don't want what is good would not be welcome to introduce evil so the only resort is to send you to prison or make you a robot which God is kind enough not to do.

 

[Muffled]

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

Is this describing a continued existence?

I beleive existence is continual whether in a body or out of it but I beleive you are asking if it means the living will continue to live and I believe being caught up does not suggest that the people are dying. As for those already dead it is a return to life.

 

[Muffled]

that verse is speaking of christians who have already died and who receive the 'first' resurrection.

the book of revelation limits their number to 144,000 who are to rule with Christ in the heavenly kingdom.

The rest of mankind are said to inherit the earth and 'live forever upon it'

Most of mankind will stay right here.

I believe this is a false interpretation and that the 144,000 Jews are not the "first resurrection" but a "first fruit" rapture of living Jews in Israel from the mount of Olives.

I believe the reaminder of mankind face the Rapture as a deternination of their destination.

I believe that is a difficult thing to assess but I do believe it is the most likely scenario if one understands in the clouds as here.

 

[Sonofason]

I beleive existence is continual whether in a body or out of it but I beleive you are asking if it means the living will continue to live and I believe being caught up does not suggest that the people are dying. As for those already dead it is a return to life.

Yes, I also believe that existence is continual for the believer. I'm not so sure that a continued existence is assured to non-believers.

You see, Pegg had said,

So dont you see how this verse is actually speaking about a 'continued' existence as you are right now???

My response was intended to refute the statement Pegg had made, which I quoted above, because when I am, God willing, caught up to meet Christ, I will not be as I am right now. Yes my existence will continue, but not as I am right now. I will have a new body, a changed body. I will have undergone a major transformation. I will be going to heaven. I will be attending a marriage feast in Heaven. I will then be coming back with Christ and all other believers when He begins to set up His kingdom here on this earth. And here I will stay reigning with Him until the Day of Judgment, a day, by the grace of God, I shall not fear.