Revelation from the Creator

[Audie]

I believe that proves what stupid people historians are.

Odd but perhaps telling standard of proof.

Do you likewise hold all other researchers
in contempt?

 

[Audie]

Yet, many, many thousands of people born in those other cultures and Ramon other religions have come to know and trust Jesus as their Savior, even despite severe persecution.

And so?

 

[InChrist]

That's an answer, but not to the
question I asked.

Here is your question:

“Where does the Bible define a true christiam?”

I assume you just made a spelling error, but meant Christian.

The Bible defines a true Christian in the New Testament. The scriptures do not define a Christian in one verse, but throughout the Gospels and epistles; how to become a Christian, follow Christ, and live in a Christlike manner.

The article linked below highlights several places in the NT where this is shown.

What is a true Christian? | GotQuestions.org

 

[InChrist]

And so?

So, the message of forgiveness, freedom, hope, and eternal life through a relationship with the living Personal Creator, Jesus, is able to penetrate into anyone’s life; no matter the culture or religion. People are not stuck in a religion just because they were born into it.

 

[metis]

What is a true Christian? | GotQuestions.org

I think Jesus' Sermon On the Mount does that very well.
Matthew ch.5-7

 

[InChrist]

I was asking you what makes a "true Christian" and you gave me the standard of belief that Jesus was savior. I said that was a low and easy standard and you replied with the bit I quoted, that only Jesus could meet the standard.

You seem to have gotten lost in our dialog. I want to know what makes a true Christian versus a fake Christian in practical terms.





What does all this mean in real terms? This just sounds like nonsese. rescue from what? Obviously Jesus saves no one from cancer, or an airplane crash, or sousal abuse, etc. So what does jesus rescue a believe from, and it be real, not imagined?

I'm an atheist and have no belief that I need to be rescued, so what are Christians being told that they need rescuing?



Yet atheists can manage their own thoughts with basic disciline they learn. Why depend on Jesus, which from what we can see does not intervene in peoples lives directly?


It's true humans are flawed, but we do have cognitive tools that reduce errors and poor judgment. I suggest belief in religious concepts is not sound thinking.

And no God is known to exist. I could claim that God has blonde hair and blue eyes, and makes excellent nachos, and can you refute that? Theists, like yourself, make all sorts of claims about agod yet offer not a single bit of credible evidence that you are correct. What if I took the word of Muslims that Jesus was just a prophet, not savior? If I rejected your claims what actual facts can you offer that Jesus is actually savior? We all know there isn't any facts, only a religious tradition that is passed down and adopted by new generations of believers.

I appreciate your thoughts even though you are an atheist and we have vastly different perspectives. I don’t expect you to understand or grasp what I’m saying because basically you can’t until you are spiritually reborn. I couldn’t make sense of the Bible or things Christians said... until I trusted Jesus Christ, then something clicked, it was truly as if my eyes/mind were opened and I could see and comprehend. That moment was definitely not some religious tradition passed down.

Biblical Christianity is totally unique and different from all religions. Religion requires the adherents to work, follow rules or rituals to please God or earn one’s way to heaven, better karma, Nirvana, etc. According to the Bible this is impossible because finite beings cannot reach an Infinite Being by their own efforts. The Son of God became human and perfectly fulfilled the law and preformed good works on behalf of humanity so that He could be our mediator and bridge to God. Jesus is unique also; fully God/fully human. When a person trusts Jesus and turns their life over to Him, real change occurs; Jesus’ works and the fruits of the Spirit (previously mentioned) flow through the life of a real Christian in practical ways which should impact people, communities and the world positively.

Jesus is unique also; fully God/fully human. Therefore, the only One who can save. What does He save or rescue us from ? He saves us from being separated from God for eternity. As an atheist you make think, “Big deal, I don’t care”. But since the Creator God is the sole Source of life, love, joy, beauty, goodness, creativity and anything worthwhile an endless existence apart from God will be terrible.

I realize that at this point you don’t believe any of this, but I have hope for you. As long as you are here and still breathing there is hope, Jesus is at work in your life through various situations to get your attention and break through your disbelief and spiritual blindness.

Here is a link in reference to who is a true Christian, if you’re interested:

What is a true Christian? | GotQuestions.org

 

[metis]

Biblical Christianity is totally unique and different from all religions. Religion requires the adherents to work, follow rules or rituals to please God or earn one’s way to heaven, better karma, Nirvana, etc. According to the Bible this is impossible because finite beings cannot reach an Infinite Being by their own efforts.

Ya gotta be careful with this as both the Sermon On the Mount and Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats do teach that our actions do indeed matter.

 

[InChrist]

I think Jesus' Sermon On the Mount does that very well.
Matthew ch.5-7

Definitely the words of Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount are important in the life of a Christian.

 

[InChrist]

Ya gotta be careful with this as both the Sermon On the Mount and Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats do teach that our actions do indeed matter.

I am not saying actions don’t matter. Clearly, actions don’t save anyone (Ephesians 2:8), according to the scriptures, yet do demonstrate one is saved (James 1:22-27).

 

[Audie]

So, the message of forgiveness, freedom, hope, and eternal life through a relationship with the living Personal Creator, Jesus, is able to penetrate into anyone’s life; no matter the culture or religion. People are not stuck in a religion just because they were born into it.

Are you?

 

[Audie]

Here is your question:

“Where does the Bible define a true christiam?”

I assume you just made a spelling error, but meant Christian.

The Bible defines a true Christian in the New Testament. The scriptures do not define a Christian in one verse, but throughout the Gospels and epistles; how to become a Christian, follow Christ, and live in a Christlike manner.

The article linked below highlights several places in the NT where this is shown.

What is a true Christian? | GotQuestions.org

Ok, just wondered since there so many
versions

 

[F1fan]

I appreciate your thoughts even though you are an atheist and we have vastly different perspectives. I don’t expect you to understand or grasp what I’m saying because basically you can’t until you are spiritually reborn. I couldn’t make sense of the Bible or things Christians said... until I trusted Jesus Christ, then something clicked, it was truly as if my eyes/mind were opened and I could see and comprehend. That moment was definitely not some religious tradition passed down.

My perspective is based on facts and reason, and what you claim here doesn't have facts, nor is a conclusion based on reason. To say "spiritually reborn" has no practical meaning. I've heard this, and similar things, claimed all through my life and thus far no Christian can articulate what it means in a real way. It strikes me as a phrase Christians adopt and use as a sort of ideological garment, but they can't show it has any actual effect.

Biblical Christianity is totally unique and different from all religions. Religion requires the adherents to work, follow rules or rituals to please God or earn one’s way to heaven, better karma, Nirvana, etc. According to the Bible this is impossible because finite beings cannot reach an Infinite Being by their own efforts. The Son of God became human and perfectly fulfilled the law and preformed good works on behalf of humanity so that He could be our mediator and bridge to God. Jesus is unique also; fully God/fully human. When a person trusts Jesus and turns their life over to Him, real change occurs; Jesus’ works and the fruits of the Spirit (previously mentioned) flow through the life of a real Christian in practical ways which should impact people, communities and the world positively.

Jesus is unique also; fully God/fully human. Therefore, the only One who can save. What does He save or rescue us from ? He saves us from being separated from God for eternity. As an atheist you make think, “Big deal, I don’t care”. But since the Creator God is the sole Source of life, love, joy, beauty, goodness, creativity and anything worthwhile an endless existence apart from God will be terrible.

I realize that at this point you don’t believe any of this,

I'm not convinced any of thgis is true and correct. Notice you only repeat claims, you offer no evidence nor reasoned argument why you beliefs are true. You're not c;aiming to have eaten a chicken sandwich for lunch, you are making fantastic claims that require substantial evidence. No Christian can provide this evidence, so don't feel bad.

but I have hope for you. As long as you are here and still breathing there is hope, Jesus is at work in your life through various situations to get your attention and break through your disbelief and spiritual blindness.

This might sound like sincere good will, but it is an arrogant condemnation of me. You make a long list of fantastic claims, offer no evidence, and then assume you are correct and I am wrong. And not just wrong, but fatally wrong. I don't report posts, but yours does seem a violation of rules.

Here is a link in reference to who is a true Christian, if you’re interested:

What is a true Christian? | GotQuestions.org

I don't click on spam. If you can't make credible arguments in your own words I'm not going to entertain Christian sources that do the same as you, make claims, offer no evidence. I was never a theist but before I was 10 I observed my Catholic and Baptist couns fight over the "truth". I found this all absurd because thay all claimed to be Christian. My grandmother was presbyterain and tried to kee pthe peace. It never worked, and it made me question all the ideas that Christians claimed through my life. I never trusted hypocrits, and Christians were among the worst. My grandmother was the only true Christian I ever knew because she and her friends at church ran their food kitchen, and they fed epople twice a week. They never mentioned Jesus. They never required prayer. They did their duty as people who fely an obligation to others through their understanding of Jesus. To my mind these are true Christians, and this is the standard. All the ideological mumbo jumbo spouted by believers is just self-service.

 

[InChrist]

Are you?

No. One of the main things God used to set me free was understanding that religion is a human (or satan’s) idea and worthless, not the answer; certainly not God’s answer. A relationship with God through the real Person of Jesus Christ is God’s only answer.

 

[InChrist]

My perspective is based on facts and reason, and what you claim here doesn't have facts, nor is a conclusion based on reason. To say "spiritually reborn" has no practical meaning. I've heard this, and similar things, claimed all through my life and thus far no Christian can articulate what it means in a real way. It strikes me as a phrase Christians adopt and use as a sort of ideological garment, but they can't show it has any actual effect.


I'm not convinced any of thgis is true and correct. Notice you only repeat claims, you offer no evidence nor reasoned argument why you beliefs are true. You're not c;aiming to have eaten a chicken sandwich for lunch, you are making fantastic claims that require substantial evidence. No Christian can provide this evidence, so don't feel bad.



This might sound like sincere good will, but it is an arrogant condemnation of me. You make a long list of fantastic claims, offer no evidence, and then assume you are correct and I am wrong. And not just wrong, but fatally wrong. I don't report posts, but yours does seem a violation of rules.


I don't click on spam. If you can't make credible arguments in your own words I'm not going to entertain Christian sources that do the same as you, make claims, offer no evidence. I was never a theist but before I was 10 I observed my Catholic and Baptist couns fight over the "truth". I found this all absurd because thay all claimed to be Christian. My grandmother was presbyterain and tried to kee pthe peace. It never worked, and it made me question all the ideas that Christians claimed through my life. I never trusted hypocrits, and Christians were among the worst. My grandmother was the only true Christian I ever knew because she and her friends at church ran their food kitchen, and they fed epople twice a week. They never mentioned Jesus. They never required prayer. They did their duty as people who fely an obligation to others through their understanding of Jesus. To my mind these are true Christians, and this is the standard. All the ideological mumbo jumbo spouted by believers is just self-service.

Well, then you do know what a real Christian is. There are those in name only who claim head knowledge of the “Christian religion “, then there are those whose lives have been transformed by the Person of Christ and their lives demonstrate that. What a blessing to have had a grandmother like that! I did not have any Christians in my life until I was in my thirties.

 

[InChrist]

Ok, just wondered since there so many
versions

All the standard versions of the Bible have the same basic message. Exceptions would be pseudo Christian altered versions, such as; the Watchtower’s NWT.

 

[Audie]

All the standard versions of the Bible have the same basic message. Exceptions would be pseudo Christian altered versions, such as; the Watchtower’s NWT.

What the Bible says / means by the most
basic and obvious things are clearly not obvious, or there would not be 40 000
sects and countless individuals with their
own ( true) reading.

 

[InChrist]

What the Bible says / means by the most
basic and obvious things are clearly not obvious, or there would not be 40 000
sects and countless individuals with their
own ( true) reading.

When I was involved in the cult Mormonism years ago, that is exactly what they would say, Mormon church leaders and members would highlight and brag about how Mormon wards all over the world were united, all on the same topic and lesson everywhere every Sunday. The lesson I learn from this was; CONTROL.

Denominations definitely have drawbacks and issues. Nevertheless, the reality is that all the variety among Christians/ churches reveal real FREEDOM and the fact that every Christian and groups of Christians are at various places in their journey with the Lord and understanding of His Word. Some groups/ denominations may stress certain aspects and others highlight different ones. These differences are not too much for an Infinite Creator to deal with, as He created variety and the scriptures say He is in the process of bringing all in the church to unity. So variety and freedom is not a problem for God.

 

[metis]

I am not saying actions don’t matter. Clearly, actions don’t save anyone (Ephesians 2:8), according to the scriptures, yet do demonstrate one is saved (James 1:22-27).

Both matter, thus one always has to scrutinize their own behavior. If one is only doing good in order to be "saved", then they are only doing as such for selfish reasons.

 

[paarsurrey]

I am not saying actions don’t matter. Clearly, actions don’t save anyone (Ephesians 2:8), according to the scriptures, yet do demonstrate one is saved (James 1:22-27).

" Ephesians 2:8, James 1:22-27 "

The verses of " Ephesians 2:8, James 1:22-27 " are not from (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, it transpires , please, right?:
Holy Bible King James Version (Red Letter Edition)
The Roman Catholic Holy Bible with the words of Jesus in red.
World Messianic Bible


Regards
_____________________
Note for the “Religion: Christian ”, please:
"(Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah did not and could not die a cursed death on the Cross", to atone the sins of anybody, one gets to know from many clues in the Gospels itself, please. Right?

 

[InChrist]

Both matter, thus one always has to scrutinize their own behavior. If one is only doing good in order to be "saved", then they are only doing as such for selfish reasons.

Yes, I agree, especially since good works don’t save anyone. Only Jesus saves. In response, good toward God and others should flow motivated by love and kindness, not selfishness or trying to impress anyone.