Richard Dawkins Facepalms at Deepak Chopra

[godnotgod]

HC is a belief...

Are you certain?

A a lemon is real, it exists and anyone can get one without the stop at the Deepak sophistry shop.

HC is real, and everyone has it, but has not yet realized the fact. Chopra has nothing for you that you don't already have. All he is trying to do is to point out the fact that you already do have it.

 

[godnotgod]

Is your doctrine of karma addressed at all by the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? If not, and I don't think it is, I will stick with my God over yours.

Your God says that you reap what you sow. That is karma. But it is not a doctrine; it is a reality.

I don't understand what you mean when you say you choose your God over mine.

 

[godnotgod]

We all "inter-are" and that is interaction at the most fundamental level which is NOT a duality as most might associate with that word, but as Oneness. .... There are many words, but only one reality.

you....associate those terms with physics.

Physics is not separate from the mystical view. The true nature of Reality is One, and that includes physics. It's just that physics is a limited view, while the mystical view is all encompassing.

'Mystical' simply means the merging of observer and observed, the realization that you are none else but THAT.

'You are not just the drop in the ocean; you are the Mighty Ocean itself'
Rumi

 

[atanu]

So I’ve had the chance to read through a few different examples of people who claimed to have entered into that state of Pure Consciousness/Being/Bliss by going into a deep meditative state. With that said, I have an experiment for you to try. I would like for you to sit in the middle of a room, get comfortable and go into that deep meditative state of Pure Consciousness and non-interaction. However, before you do this, I would like for you to ask a friend to be present in that room as well and he/she should have a large frying pan in one hand. I would like for you to instruct your friend to smack you over the head with the frying pan as soon as you enter that Pure Consciousness/non-interactive state. If you are truly in a non-interactive state, you should theoretically feel nothing at all. If the experiment doesn’t work, you might end up in a different state entirely.

You could try it yourself.

 

[Runewolf1973]

You could try it yourself.

I'll pass.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Physics is not separate from the mystical view. The true nature of Reality is One, and that includes physics. It's just that physics is a limited view, while the mystical view is all encompassing.

'Mystical' simply means the merging of observer and observed, the realization that you are none else but THAT.

'You are not just the drop in the ocean; you are the Mighty Ocean itself'
Rumi

I agree with you, the physical view is lacking and that is why I take "interaction" a step further than most. The purest form of interaction is not many things acting as one, it is the One which acts as the many.

 

[Shad]

Are you certain?

Since you can not demonstrate it with evidence, reason or logic then yes it is.

HC is real, and everyone has it, but has not yet realized the fact. Chopra has nothing for you that you don't already have. All he is trying to do is to point out the fact that you already do have it.

Deepak talk big but has nothing to show for it. I will skip taking claims from a person that has zero evidence seriously. Especially when his mouth piece here, you, read some deep meaning into a software generated quote.

 

[atanu]

I'll pass.

Means?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Means?

What do you think it means?

 

[atanu]

I don't know.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I don't know.

The outcome is self-apparent. The experiment was hypothetical only.

 

[godnotgod]

I agree with you, the physical view is lacking and that is why I take "interaction" a step further than most. The purest form of interaction is not many things acting as one, it is the One which acts as the many.

Yes, the One, The Changeless, acts as if it were the Many, while at all times remaining The One. The Changeless. This is maya, The Grand Illusion, which you have been taken in by, because you are seeing The One, The Changeless, through the glass (ie; the conceptual mind] of Time, Space, and Causation. IOW, IT is not really The Many interacting with itself, but is just manifesting itself as such. And so....

"If we don't see the Absolute as what it is, we'll see it as something else. If we don't see it as changeless, infinite, and undivided, we'll see it as changing, finite, and divided, since in this case there is no other else. There is no other way to mistake the changeless except as changing. So we see a Universe which is changing all the time, made of minuscule particles, and divided into atoms."

http://quanta-gaia.org/dobson/EquationsOfMaya.html

So you see, it is simply a mistake that we see The Changeless as changing.

And so, from the POV of the conditioned mind, the Universe is seen in a state of interactive 'parts'; but from the POV of Higher Consciousness, it is seen as it actually is: The Changeless.

1st observer: 'the flag is moving'
2nd observer: 'no, the wind is moving'
3rd observer: 'no, both are moving'
passerby: 'all wrong! your MINDS are moving!'

Zen source

 

[godnotgod]

Since you can not demonstrate it with evidence, reason or logic then yes it is.

Your logic does not follow: just because the description of Higher Consciousness does not conform to your system of knowledge does not logically mean it is a belief. It may be another form of knowledge outside that of factual knowledge. What is it about HC that makes you say it is a belief?

Deepak talk big but has nothing to show for it. I will skip taking claims from a person that has zero evidence seriously. Especially when his mouth piece here, you, read some deep meaning into a software generated quote.

The primary issue in the debate is whether the universe is conscious or not. Dawkins tries to make the point that things IN the universe can be conscious, but the universe itself cannot be. But he forgets that the universe is not a vessel that contains 'things', but that it is those very things which comprise the universe itself.

Which quote are you referring to? I have only quoted things Chopra has actually said. You're making things up in your head regarding 'software generated quotes'.

And which things does Chopra say that makes you think he is 'talking big'? All I see is that he is cutting to the chase and making distilled statements about Reality, statements which require you to pay attention and use your higher intellect. Otherwise, the discursive mind is always getting in the way with its baggage of conceptual thought, and trying to superimpose its ideas onto Reality, and sadly missing the point.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Yes, the One, The Changeless, acts as if it were the Many, while at all times remaining The One.

That is what I said, but you continually insist that when I say "interaction" my perception is somehow backwards. I have explicitly stated that what I mean by the word interaction is in fact that same Oneness acting as the many. It is not many acting as one. I am not being fooled by Maya, you are not realizing the deeper understanding to my words. Sorry if you don't agree with my choice of words, but my understanding is not lacking.

 

[godnotgod]

That is what I said, but you continually insist that when I say "interaction" my perception is somehow backwards. I have explicitly stated that what I mean by the word interaction is in fact that same Oneness acting as the many. It is not many acting as one. I am not being fooled by Maya, you are not realizing the deeper understanding to my words. Sorry if you don't agree with my choice of words, but my understanding is not lacking.

The One 'acting as The Many' is not the same as 'acting as if it were The Many'; the latter is an illusion; there is no interaction actually taking place, just as there is no actual hero slaying a dragon in your dream.

 

[First Baseman]

Your God says that you reap what you sow. That is karma. But it is not a doctrine; it is a reality.

I don't understand what you mean when you say you choose your God over mine.

That's easy. Who is your God?

 

[Milton Platt]

Theology is fact. Whether you understand that or not is not my problem. But don't be mistaken into thinking that just because you don't know, no one else does

Yeah, it describes the study of non existent things.....

 

[Milton Platt]

That's called trailblazing!

Most would call it bull***t

 

[Runewolf1973]

The One 'acting as The Many' is not the same as 'acting as if it were The Many'; the latter is an illusion; there is no interaction actually taking place, just as there is no actual hero slaying a dragon in your dream.

Whether there is a sort of illusion there or not, the One still "acts" as if it were something. Like you said yourself, it acts as if it were the many. Therefore there is still an action or activity going on there. I call that interaction. There is always interaction. If there were not, there wouldn't even be that dream or those "illusions" as you call them, but there are illusions and there are dreams and so there must be interaction.

 

[godnotgod]

That's easy. Who is your God?

What? You are saying there is 'my God' as compared to 'your God'? What on earth are you talking about? Do you realize how illogical that is?