Richard Dawkins says he is a Cultural Christian

[IndigoChild5559]

Honestly I would guess around half or more of churchgoers/self proclaimed American Christians are atheists and just go for the social activity or to keep family/friends happy and avoid conflict.

What do you base that on? Polls done by Pew Research indicate that only 3% of the American public claim to be Atheist, so how would 50% of a church be atheist?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

That's like theists trying to say atheists are really theists themselves but [insert bogus reason x, y, z].

Not really, because nearly all of the social ramifications of "coming out" as an atheist are negative, so it makes sense that the percentage of atheists in the US would be underestimated and the percentage of theists would be overestimated.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

What do you base that on? Polls done by Pew Research indicate that only 3% of the American public claim to be Atheist, so how would 50% of a church be atheist?

Polls are not usually representative samples since people who participate in religious polls are more likely to be religious, and not to mention, people lie on surveys. Also, if you go to church and observe people during prayer/creed recitations, you'll notice most are not really paying attention, so I doubt they really think that a god is listening or watching.

 

[metis]

Polls are not usually representative samples since people who participate in religious polls are more likely to be religious, and not to mention, people lie on surveys. Also, if you go to church and observe people during prayer/creed recitations, you'll notice most are not really paying attention, so I doubt they really think that a god is listening or watching.

If one is in a religious service looking for the hypocrites, they should bring a mirror.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

people lie on surveys.

I think that is exceedingly rare, given that here is no reason for someone to lie on an anonymous survey.

Also, if you go to church and observe people during prayer/creed recitations, you'll notice most are not really paying attention, so I doubt they really think that a god is listening or watching.

Oh please. Many people just find church boring, and space out. It doesn't mean they don't believe. Also, we live in a spectator culture. People today are simply uninclined to participate in these sorts of communal activities. Catholics in the US, for example, have quite a reputation for NOT SINGING.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

If one is in a religious service looking for the hypocrites, they should bring a mirror.

Oh? Are you one of the atheists who fakes being a theist too? Lmao

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Oh please. Many people just find church boring, and space out. It doesn't mean they don't believe. Also, we live in a spectator culture. People today are simply uninclined to participate in these sorts of communal activities. Catholics in the US, for example, have quite a reputation for NOT SINGING.

Really? Do you think someone who actually thinks they are being watched by an all-powerful and judgmental cosmic sky-daddy would let themself space out while worshipping and praying to it?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think that is exceedingly rare, given that here is no reason for someone to lie on an anonymous survey.

I don't think the proportion of atheists in church is 50%, but I do think that self-reported stats on this generally over-report theism and under-report atheism.

This isn't so much about outright lying as it is about reporting what one feels they ought to be rather than what they are. When it's drilled into people that atheism is bad and belief in God is good, they'll report that their beliefs are more in line with this expectation of how they ought to be. Careful survey design can reduce, but not completely eliminate, this effect.

It's like how when you ask people "do you attend church every week?", you'll get way more "yes" responses than are reflected in actual church attendance based on a count of butts in pews.

 

[Augustus]

Do you think someone who actually thinks they are being watched by an all-powerful and judgmental cosmic sky-daddy would let themself space out while worshipping and praying to it?

Yes, of course that happens, albeit that they generally don't feel they are going to be 'judged' for being insufficiently enthralled by a nondescript sermon or homily.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Oh? Are you one of the atheists who fakes being a theist too? Lmao

The man is a devout Catholic. Did you think that only an atheist would make his remark? I have also heard MANY religious people quote Charles Sprugeon, "If I had never joined a church till I had found one that was perfect, I should never have joined one at all; and the moment I did join it, if I had found one, I should have spoiled it, for it would not have been a perfect church after I had become a member of it. Still, imperfect as it is, it is the dearest place on earth to us.”

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Really? Do you think someone who actually thinks they are being watched by an all-powerful and judgmental cosmic sky-daddy would let themself space out while worshipping and praying to it?

Absolutely.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I don't think the proportion of atheists in church is 50%, but I do think that self-reported stats on this generally over-report theism and under-report atheism.

This isn't so much about outright lying as it is about reporting what one feels they ought to be rather than what they are. When it's drilled into people that atheism is bad and belief in God is good, they'll report that their beliefs are more in line with this expectation of how they ought to be. Careful survey design can reduce, but not completely eliminate, this effect.

It's like how when you ask people "do you attend church every week?", you'll get way more "yes" responses than are reflected in actual church attendance based on a count of butts in pews.

My impression of atheists is that they have a much better devotion to truth than the average person. I can't see them lying on a questionnaire, especially if it were anonymous.

We shall simply have to agree to disagree. Be well.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

The man is a devout Catholic. Did you think that only an atheist would make his remark? I have also heard MANY religious people quote Charles Sprugeon, "If I had never joined a church till I had found one that was perfect, I should never have joined one at all; and the moment I did join it, if I had found one, I should have spoiled it, for it would not have been a perfect church after I had become a member of it. Still, imperfect as it is, it is the dearest place on earth to us.”

I mean, I don't know because I don't know who he was calling a hypocrite. It's plain to see I'm not the hypocrite as I'm definitely not labelling myself as religious.

 

[YoursTrue]

@Rational Agnostic I can see the validity in your questions. Based on what I see here.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I mean, I don't know because I don't know who he was calling a hypocrite. It's plain to see I'm not the hypocrite as I'm definitely not labelling myself as religious.

Well, I can't speak for Merit, but IMHO, everyone is a hypocrite to some extent, with some people obviously being worse about it. It is important, in my view, that all of us try to monitor ourselves for our inconsistencies. I know I certainly do.

 

[YoursTrue]

I mean, I don't know because I don't know who he was calling a hypocrite. It's plain to see I'm not the hypocrite as I'm definitely not labelling myself as religious.

I actually enjoyed listening to Charles Spungeon's semons, not that I necessarily agree with all his statements, but I remember his radio show broadcasts with pleasure.
I also enjoyed listening to Billie Graham but that was before I believed in God. I needed help in my life and enjoyed the experiences he told. I was hoping God could help me, Billie Graham would often give examples of people that God helped and I appreciated that. Although I do not now have all the same beliefs Billie Graham did. However, his sermons helped me look for what I consider to be the "one true" actual God. And I believe I found Him. He heard me,

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My impression of atheists is that they have a much better devotion to truth than the average person. I can't see them lying on a questionnaire, especially if it were anonymous.

We shall simply have to agree to disagree. Be well.

It isn't even about lying. Our impressions of what sorts of people we are are just often incorrect to a surprising degree.

I run into it in my work (transportation planning): travel surveys never just ask participants to describe their travel on a typical weekday, because everyone's idea of "typical" is wonky. Instead, they get participants to log all their travel - routine or not - and build an overall picture by looking at lots of responses.

As far as atheists in church go, people's identities don't always shift right away when their circumstances change. It doesn't surprise me at all to find people who identify as theists but don't believe in any gods. It's a lot like people who identify as triathletes but haven't entered an event in 5 years. When it comes to self-identity, it can take a while for a new normal to be properly recognized and not mistaken for a temporary aberration.

 

[YoursTrue]

I mean, I don't know because I don't know who he was calling a hypocrite. It's plain to see I'm not the hypocrite as I'm definitely not labelling myself as religious.

I remember when I went to church as a paid musician (I was not a Christian at that time). Many who were in the chorus were brazenly engaging in conduct not approved for Christians as set in the Bible. And, as someone who did not believe in God at the time I was nevertheless astonished. Sompin didn't seem right but I continued because of the love of the music and because I was getting paid.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I actually enjoyed listening to Charles Spungeon's semons, not that I necessarily agree with all his statements, but I remember his radio show broadcasts with pleasure.
I also enjoyed listening to Billie Graham but that was before I believed in God. I needed help in my life and enjoyed the experiences he told. I was hoping God could help me, Billie Graham would often give examples of people that God helped and I appreciated that. Although I do not now have all the same beliefs Billie Graham did. However, his sermons helped me look for what I consider to be the "one true" actual God. And I believe I found Him. He heard me,

Billy Graham is the only televangelist that I think was authentic. He was the real deal.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Honestly I would guess around half or more of churchgoers/self proclaimed American Christians are atheists and just go for the social activity or to keep family/friends happy and avoid conflict.

I think there is a lot of truth to that.

I remember when I left church services and it's just like people have a switch where the religion just turns completely off and they all run to the sports bar and talk smack.