Riddle of the beginning solved without god?

[shawn001]

They are close right? Have they found that god particle? They need to.

Called the Higgs Boson.

Elusive Higgs Boson Particle Closer Than Ever, Scientists Say

"We see a distinct Higgs-like signature that cannot be easily explained without the presence of something new," physicist Wade Fisher of Michigan State University said in a statement. "If what we're seeing really is the Higgs boson, it will be a major milestone for the world physics community and will place the keystone in the most successful particle physics theory in history."

Elusive Higgs Boson Particle Closer Than Ever, Scientists Say - Yahoo! News

I mean what we don't know. We are always on the brink. We will answer the questions eventually.

If they find the Higgs which is what they believe gives particles mass, then that would tie in cosmology on the big scale and QM on the smale. It would be a the "recipe" for everything.



I'm talking about what data is. A projection of something material.

data is information. Still not sure what your talking about here.

It's philosophy that relates to science. Language gets the point across as best as possible and some metaphors never hurt.

Its not clear philosophy, at least to me and philosophy doesn't do the actual physical experiments. It can help formulate ideas and hypothesis.


Naturalistic pantheist. Other types of pantheists can have a different take on "spirit" and turns into semantics.

Naturalistic pantheist

That is what I suspected. I have thought about it myself, but QM and possible multiverses would mean what then? In QM some believe, everything could all be going on at once every possible outcome and its not till you observe it, that it becomes your reality. There is another take on QM and reality though as well.

Holographic Universe

"What would you do if you were to find out that you and everything you know, see, and experience were nothing more than a hologram a projection of cosmic data. It sounds like something from the matrix trilogy but it is actually a possible scientific theory."

Holographic Universe


I am not sure where they are at with the below research as it was 2009.

Holographic Universe: Discovery Could Herald New Era In Fundamental Physics

Holographic Universe: Discovery Could Herald New Era In Fundamental Physics

 

[idav]

Naturalistic pantheist

That is what I suspected. I have thought about it myself, but QM and possible multiverses would mean what then? In QM some believe, everything could all be going on at once every possible outcome and its not till you observe it, that it becomes your reality. There is another take on QM and reality though as well.

I've been very interested in these experiments. To me it seems there is a point that QM becomes bounded by interaction with larger matter otherwise we would be doing things just as the quantum level. Almost as if it is a seperate reality at the same time as reacting with everything at fundamental levels.

Holographic Universe

"What would you do if you were to find out that you and everything you know, see, and experience were nothing more than a hologram a projection of cosmic data. It sounds like something from the matrix trilogy but it is actually a possible scientific theory."

Holographic Universe

I think it is a valid idea. At least we would still be a projection of something that actually exists.

I am not sure where they are at with the below research as it was 2009.

Holographic Universe: Discovery Could Herald New Era In Fundamental Physics

Holographic Universe: Discovery Could Herald New Era In Fundamental Physics

Thats interesting. I figure the universe is the result of some wave function.

Universal wavefunction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Thief]

So it's easier to believe in 'possible' universes....
rather than believe in a Spirit greater than yourself?

Easier to wait for someone to find evidence of God....
rather than make up your own mind?

And the likelihood of science rendering for you such 'proof' before you die is what?
Immediately at hand?

And so it remains...faith is not a matter of proving.

You can't use the world around you to prove God...unless....
You are willing to use the word...creator.

And these mysterious particles that 'pop' out of nowhere.......really?
And all that dark energy and matter that we can't 'prove'.
but we 'know' it's there.......really?

What do you think you are looking for?
Won't you be surprised when you find it!

 

[PolyHedral]

They are close right? Have they found that god particle? They need to.

I believe the current news around CERN is the the Higgs' doesn't exist, and has a mass of 125MeV.

I'm talking about what data is. A projection of something material.

The holographic principle is the reverse: material things are projections of data.

 

[idav]

I believe the current news around CERN is the the Higgs' doesn't exist, and has a mass of 125MeV.

What the? lol

The holographic principle is the reverse: material things are projections of data.

Noted. Now I'm getting dizzy.

 

[idav]

The higgs doesn't exist. It pops out of existence just as soon as it popped in.

 

[PolyHedral]

What the? lol

Noted. Now I'm getting dizzy.

They haven't found the Higgs yet, but they have a very narrow range (which they haven't checked) where it could be, and have every periphery sign that it's there.

 

[idav]

They haven't found the Higgs yet, but they have a very narrow range (which they haven't checked) where it could be, and have every periphery sign that it's there.

That's what I here but once/if we find it does it explain anything other than our maths are correct. Where does this particle come from and where does it go after it disappears again? I'm not sure it goes anywhere it is almost like it literally exists and then annihilates itself but then that would mean creation happens all the time at fundamental levels.

 

[PolyHedral]

That's what I here but once/if we find it does it explain anything other than our maths are correct. Where does this particle come from and where does it go after it disappears again? I'm not sure it goes anywhere it is almost like it literally exists and then annihilates itself but then that would mean creation happens all the time at fundamental levels.

It doesn't go anywhere. The Higgs field is a fundamental component of the universe. The Higgs boson is just a "lie-to-children grad students" to simplify said field.

 

[Quiddity]

Especially when the favourite mantra is "Faith requires no proof"

I know it must bring you great joy to repeat this ad nauseum over the eons but I feel it important to note that it does little to help discussion or foster further clarification. May I suggest a different hobby?

Have you bothered to read the article? Do you have the foggiest idea if they are even understanding Aristotle properly? Or are you going to come back with another smarmy remark that makes you pound your chest in triumph?

 

[idav]

It doesn't go anywhere. The Higgs field is a fundamental component of the universe. The Higgs boson is just a "lie-to-children grad students" to simplify said field.

If it is just a field why are they trying to find a boson or particle?

 

[shawn001]

So it's easier to believe in 'possible' universes....
rather than believe in a Spirit greater than yourself?

Easier to wait for someone to find evidence of God....
rather than make up your own mind?

And the likelihood of science rendering for you such 'proof' before you die is what?
Immediately at hand?

And so it remains...faith is not a matter of proving.

You can't use the world around you to prove God...unless....
You are willing to use the word...creator.

And these mysterious particles that 'pop' out of nowhere.......really?
And all that dark energy and matter that we can't 'prove'.
but we 'know' it's there.......really?

What do you think you are looking for?
Won't you be surprised when you find it!

My mind set is not locked into 1 BC, like you are.

Does the sun orbit the earth or the earth orbit the sun, and who found that out, using what?

"And these mysterious particles that 'pop' out of nowhere.......really?"

Really! As in reality.

"So it's easier to believe in 'possible' universes....
rather than believe in a Spirit greater than yourself?"

Its not about belief.

"believe in a Spirit greater than yourself"

What am I again?

"Easier to wait for someone to find evidence of God....
rather than make up your own mind?"

There is no evidence of any god. Only the possiblity, just like the possiblity of other universes.

"And the likelihood of science rendering for you such 'proof' before you die is what?
Immediately at hand?"

Perhaps.

"And so it remains...faith is not a matter of proving."

I have faith you say this remark again and again and again.

Faith: belief that is not based on proof

So using your "logic' I can have faith in anything what so ever and it needs to proving. That is called blind faith.

"And all that dark energy and matter that we can't 'prove'"

It hasn't been proven what it is exactly, but inference by experiments and observations. Explain why it can't be proven though?

 

[Thief]

My mind set is not locked into 1 BC, like you are.

Does the sun orbit the earth or the earth orbit the sun, and who found that out, using what?

"And these mysterious particles that 'pop' out of nowhere.......really?"

Really! As in reality.

"So it's easier to believe in 'possible' universes....
rather than believe in a Spirit greater than yourself?"

Its not about belief.

"believe in a Spirit greater than yourself"

What am I again?

"Easier to wait for someone to find evidence of God....
rather than make up your own mind?"

There is no evidence of any god. Only the possiblity, just like the possiblity of other universes.

"And the likelihood of science rendering for you such 'proof' before you die is what?
Immediately at hand?"

Perhaps.

"And so it remains...faith is not a matter of proving."

I have faith you say this remark again and again and again.

Faith: belief that is not based on proof

So using your "logic' I can have faith in anything what so ever and it needs to proving. That is called blind faith.

"And all that dark energy and matter that we can't 'prove'"

It hasn't been proven what it is exactly, but inference by experiments and observations. Explain why it can't be proven though?

Most of your post is retort for the sake of non-belief.
But the last line displays something useful.

You are willing to believe in something because the effect is seen.
The source is unknown....but you would believe?

But the same technique you deny.....when speaking of God?

 

[PolyHedral]

If it is just a field why are they trying to find a boson or particle?

Because it would be evidence of the field.

Particles and fields in QM are basically two different ways of formulating the same thing.

 

[shawn001]

Most of your post is retort for the sake of non-belief.
But the last line displays something useful.

You are willing to believe in something because the effect is seen.
The source is unknown....but you would believe?

But the same technique you deny.....when speaking of God?

"Most of your post is retort for the sake of non-belief."

What is my belief? You don''t seem to know.

"You are willing to believe in something because the effect is seen."

Yes like gravity.

Nor do I go by blind faith like you do.

 

[McBell]

I know it must bring you great joy to repeat this ad nauseum over the eons but I feel it important to note that it does little to help discussion or foster further clarification. May I suggest a different hobby?

Suggest away.
Doesn't change the fact that some people hide beind the Faith needs no proving.
That is until they declare that what they believe is true until they are proven wrong.

but since I suspect that you are whining up the wrong tree, I shall bow out of this thread since my presence bothers you so much and the thread seems to be nothing more than a preaching to the choir to ratify my beliefs thread.

Carry on.

Have you bothered to read the article? Do you have the foggiest idea if they are even understanding Aristotle properly? Or are you going to come back with another smarmy remark that makes you pound your chest in triumph?

*pounds chest whilst doing the tarzan scream*

My apologies for voicing an opinion that upsets you so.

 

[Thief]

"Most of your post is retort for the sake of non-belief."

What is my belief? You don''t seem to know.

"You are willing to believe in something because the effect is seen."

Yes like gravity.

Nor do I go by blind faith like you do.

I've been blind....seven days.
I recovered.

And none are so blind as those who will not see.

 

[shawn001]

I've been blind....seven days.
I recovered.

And none are so blind as those who will not see.

Does that apply to there was no global flood and the people who still insist it happened?

Well we actually have better telescopes and electron microscopes now and can "see" a whole lot better.



“The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge. ”
― Albert Einstein

 

[Thief]

Does that apply to there was no global flood and the people who still insist it happened?

Well we actually have better telescopes and electron microscopes now and can "see" a whole lot better.

This clearly indicates...you are 'blind'.

“The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge. ”
― Albert Einstein

And in the end of his days he continued his work....knowing his famous equation still wasn't quite...
the item.

On occasion....someone entered the room and did ask....
'What are you working on now?'

He replied...
"I'm trying to catch God in the act!"

 

[PolyHedral]

And in the end of his days he continued his work....knowing his famous equation still wasn't quite...
the item.

On occasion....someone entered the room and did ask....
'What are you working on now?'

He replied...
"I'm trying to catch God in the act!"

Please note that Einstein is not infallible. He rejected the reality in front of him, because he liked the clockwork universe too much.