Righteousness

[Bird123]

IMO.
I need to make sense of where you are coming from if l'm to deal sensibly with your 'meteor shower' of questions.

You have talked about God as 'a fact' when God is only known through faith.

You claim that God loves unconditionally (which l believe is true), but without providing your source of revelation. How can you know this without revelation?

How can any human, with their limited knowledge and powers of reasoning, hope to discover the truth of God? In logic, this form of reasoning is 'inductive' and inferential, and is incapable of providing certainty. But God, who (by definition) does know all things, is able of reveal the truth to mankind. This is what is known as revelation, and, if it comes from the one true God, provides knowledge of the truth. The only condition that comes with revelation is faith.

Clearly, not all holy books can offer the way of truth. They may all offer 'truths', but truth mixed with error is deception. There can, therefore, only be one truth revealed by one God, and l believe that truth is revealed through the Bible by the Holy Spirit. The Bible is, lMO, the best evidence of God.

You appear to be claiming that philosophy provides answers to spiritual matters. I say that it raises questions but fails to offer knowledge of the truth.

You feel that the Bible fails to answer questions, but l say let's take one question at a time and look at it carefully.

IMO.

Where am I coming from? I was raised on the Bible. When I became an adult, i realized so much of the Bible simply did not add up. I started a journey to Discovery in order to Discover what the actual truth is.

You can tell more about someone through their actions and choices. In this time-based causal universe, God's actions can be seen. God is hiding nothing. Put the pieces together and you start to understand God and what God is really doing with this world. This is Real Truth at it's best. God's actions, unlike books, can not be altered by anyone.

With years and years of Discovery so much comes together. When one opens one door, it leads to other doors that can be opened along with a wider view and more being Discovered.

You are right. Up until this point, though it all added up perfectly, I really did not have Proof. God paid me a visit and confirmed much of what I discovered. The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a narrow view. I cry that and work on mine everyday.

Needless to say, God has capabilities far beyond anything I have. Everything about God will add up. Everyone needs to Question more. To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. If you really knew God, you would know God isn't telling you what you should do. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to Discover knowledge. God isn't going to get in the way of Wisdom!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I have since found that when I stand in faith, Jesus answers my prayers.

Mine were never answered.

I was broken, and my heart was cut

My brother died earlier this year, and my entire world and sense of self was shattered (that's how close we were, and it feels like a part of me was violently torn off). I'm still picking the pieces, healing, and moving on.
And Jesus hasn't been answering my pleas for comfort and security. He wasn't around to pick me back up. And he didn't show up as my emotional state of being crashed down into itself and collapsed into a emotional black hole. And he's not helped climb out. He didn't even help when I was groped by a TSA goon when I flew to Indiana for my brother's funeral.

I wondered whether my participation in 'ouija' board events

That's a silly game of a theatrical performance of the subconscious mind. Fascinating, really, how it all plays out on nothing more than belief, but there's nothing supernatural to them.

I am now convinced that there are powers of darkness that oppress our spirit. It may well be that you have been affected by these powers.

Nope. I burn brighter than I ever have before. I am not oppressed as I once was, and now I am free.

Do you renounce the Devil and all his works?

What is the devil, really, other than an easy excuse and scapegoat and a threat that's always easy to grab?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Where am I coming from? I was raised on the Bible. When I became an adult, i realized so much of the Bible simply did not add up. I started a journey to Discovery in order to Discover what the actual truth is.

You can tell more about someone through their actions and choices. In this time-based causal universe, God's actions can be seen. God is hiding nothing. Put the pieces together and you start to understand God and what God is really doing with this world. This is Real Truth at it's best. God's actions, unlike books, can not be altered by anyone.

With years and years of Discovery so much comes together. When one opens one door, it leads to other doors that can be opened along with a wider view and more being Discovered.

You are right. Up until this point, though it all added up perfectly, I really did not have Proof. God paid me a visit and confirmed much of what I discovered. The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a narrow view. I cry that and work on mine everyday.

Needless to say, God has capabilities far beyond anything I have. Everything about God will add up. Everyone needs to Question more. To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. If you really knew God, you would know God isn't telling you what you should do. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to Discover knowledge. God isn't going to get in the way of Wisdom!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

The bottom line, for me, is Jesus Christ. He said, 'l am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.' [John 14:6]

I am wary of any belief that denies Christ as the way to God. His words are very clear, and they align perfectly with the life he led, and which, ultimately, he sacrificed for others.

IMO.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I'm really not that unique. But that's ok. I'm not trying to be unique. I'm trying to be me.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Mine were never answered.

My brother died earlier this year, and my entire world and sense of self was shattered (that's how close we were, and it feels like a part of me was violently torn off). I'm still picking the pieces, healing, and moving on.
And Jesus hasn't been answering my pleas for comfort and security. He wasn't around to pick me back up. And he didn't show up as my emotional state of being crashed down into itself and collapsed into a emotional black hole. And he's not helped climb out. He didn't even help when I was groped by a TSA goon when I flew to Indiana for my brother's funeral.

That's a silly game of a theatrical performance of the subconscious mind. Fascinating, really, how it all plays out on nothing more than belief, but there's nothing supernatural to them.

Nope. I burn brighter than I ever have before. I am not oppressed as I once was, and now I am free.

What is the devil, really, other than an easy excuse and scapegoat and a threat that's always easy to grab?

I'm sorry to hear about your brother.

All l can say is that knowing Christ does not prevent trials in life, but it does bring peace and assurance. His love conquered death, and transcends the grave.

IMO.

 

[Bird123]

The bottom line, for me, is Jesus Christ. He said, 'l am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.' [John 14:6]

I am wary of any belief that denies Christ as the way to God. His words are very clear, and they align perfectly with the life he led, and which, ultimately, he sacrificed for others.

IMO.

I am one who does not value Beliefs. I am one who seeks only Truth, not beliefs.

If one ignores questions or even refuses to question, Truth is not what one is seeking.

If I can Discover the Real Truth, then anyone is capable. What it really comes down to is what each person chooses to seek for themselves or even if they choose to seek at all.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I'm really not that unique. But that's ok. I'm not trying to be unique. I'm trying to be me.

Yes, you trying to be you is a very good choice!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, you trying to be you is a very good choice!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Everybody claims to be themselves, self described free spirits are a dime a dozen, and we are culture that mass markets individualism. I am aware that among average people I am very different. But we are copies of copies of copies, we are the combination of everyone we've known. We all have our influences and inspirations. Compared to certain groups I'm rather typical and hardly noteworthy.

 

[Redemptionsong]

I am one who does not value Beliefs. I am one who seeks only Truth, not beliefs.

If one ignores questions or even refuses to question, Truth is not what one is seeking.

If I can Discover the Real Truth, then anyone is capable. What it really comes down to is what each person chooses to seek for themselves or even if they choose to seek at all.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

IMO, the big mistake you make is thinking that you can discover the truth. This is the route taken by the vain philosopher. Logic teaches us that, however bright you might be, and however many questions you might ask, you can never hope to know everything. And yet, to know the truth you do have to know everything.

IMO, the best way to discover truth is to place one's faith in the God of truth. It is God that provides the revelation!

IMO.

 

[ajay0]

What is 'righteousness', in your opinion?

As far as Dharmic (Hindu-Buddhist) philosophy is considered, righteousness or Virtuous conduct is potent in itself to dissolve karma and result in attainment of Nirvana or enlightenment.

I have created a thread on the female enlightened master Rajini Menon attaining enlightenment just through adherence to ethical or righteous conduct without any other spiritual methods or gurus....

Female enlightened master Rajini Menon on attaining enlightenment by adhering to virtuous conduct...

Swami Satchidananda had liked the practice of virtue or righteous conduct to meditation itself, and Buddha had taught that virtuous conduct in itself is capable of attainment of the highest possibility, spiritually speaking.

This is crucial to me in disproving the philosophies of nihilism and existentialism which states that all values are mere abstract contrivances . This is important because nihilism is considered to be a leading philosophical cause of the world wars.

Holocaust survivor, psychiatrist and philosophy Viktor Frankl had also attributed nihilism as influencing the destructive thought process of the Nazi ideology.

 

[Redemptionsong]

As far as Dharmic (Hindu-Buddhist) philosophy is considered, righteousness or Virtuous conduct is potent in itself to dissolve karma and result in attainment of Nirvana or enlightenment.

I have created a thread on the female enlightened master Rajini Menon attaining enlightenment just through adherence to ethical or righteous conduct without any other spiritual methods or gurus....

Female enlightened master Rajini Menon on attaining enlightenment by adhering to virtuous conduct...

Swami Satchidananda had liked the practice of virtue or righteous conduct to meditation itself, and Buddha had taught that virtuous conduct in itself is capable of attainment of the highest possibility, spiritually speaking.

This is crucial to me in disproving the philosophies of nihilism and existentialism which states that all values are mere abstract contrivances . This is important because nihilism is considered to be a leading philosophical cause of the world wars.

Holocaust survivor, psychiatrist and philosophy Viktor Frankl had also attributed nihilism as influencing the destructive thought process of the Nazi ideology.

I agree with you about nihilism.

However, is 'enlightenment' not a subjective experience? What evidence suggests Rajini was perfectly righteous?

 

[Bird123]

Everybody claims to be themselves, self described free spirits are a dime a dozen, and we are culture that mass markets individualism. I am aware that among average people I am very different. But we are copies of copies of copies, we are the combination of everyone we've known. We all have our influences and inspirations. Compared to certain groups I'm rather typical and hardly noteworthy.

Since no one is exactly alike, should one really define oneself with labels or labels of groups?

We have all lived many many lives to get to where we are today. We have been taught and influenced by those in our lives and the events that happened. On the other hand, we have made our free choices ourselves to become who we are today. We are on our journeys to Discover what the best answers really are.

It doesn't matter that you do not think you are unique. You have chosen to be who you must and that is a part of the plan. You will share that which is special about you with those in your life whether you realize this or not.

In the human condition there are an almost limitless number of variables. I have moments where I see it coming together, however only God has the capabilities to keep up with it all. We are all exactly where we are supposed to be with the people in our lives just like they are here for us. How all the little pieces of the puzzle fit together creates a beautiful mosaic of us all moving each other forward, toward Great Knowledge, Great Wisdom, and Perfection.

It is Truly a Masterpiece!! Just like all of us!!

People can have a lot in common and people can copy the choices and actions of others, but we are far from being copies.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

IMO, the big mistake you make is thinking that you can discover the truth. This is the route taken by the vain philosopher. Logic teaches us that, however bright you might be, and however many questions you might ask, you can never hope to know everything. And yet, to know the truth you do have to know everything.

IMO, the best way to discover truth is to place one's faith in the God of truth. It is God that provides the revelation!

IMO.

your quote:the big mistake you make is thinking that you can discover the truth. This is the route taken by the vain philosopher. Logic teaches us that, however bright you might be, and however many questions you might ask, you can never hope to know everything.
MY ANSWER: This is the wall you create for yourself that will prevent you from Discovering anything at all.
If scientists believed this, we would all still be in the stone age.

What is the first thing a wise man realizes once a wise man truly becomes wise?? Anybody?? Anybody?? The first thing a wise man realizes once a wise man truly becomes wise is that there is so much more to learn.

A hungry student doesn't worry about knowing everything. A hungry student only wants to know more!!

How about this for logic: If God exists, then God can be found. This is not talking about beliefs. On the other hand, I find very few people really want to find God.

This is all perfectly OK!! Life isn't about finding God. Further, life isn't about holy books and following either.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In the human condition there are an almost limitless number of variables.

That just doesn't seek likely. The very fact we can have complex cultures and understand then intuitively strongly shows we must extensively behave amd think alike or none of this is well understood or functioning well.
Amd things we find just do not suggest it is our own choices who make us. Such as, serial killers are uniform in having certain genetic traits, brain structures, and being horribly abused as children.
Studies into identical twins consistently show us, time and time again, the twins are alike in appearance and behaviors and personalities.
We also that subconsciously the brain has decided before we are consciously aware a decision has been made.
When children are abused we can predict how they turn out as adults. When someone wins the lottery we predict it won't be long before this person is broke. When groups are involved it is just the same that we can predict what we will happen. Not with 100% accuracy, but well enough that choice just doesn't seem to be going on in a lot of things. Or manipulation wouldn't be a thing.

 

[ajay0]

I agree with you about nihilism.

However, is 'enlightenment' not a subjective experience? What evidence suggests Rajini was perfectly righteous?

The Buddha nature or Self is within all human beings as per dharmic philosophy. Many of the teachings of Jesus or Muhammad can be reinterpreted in this regard.

Examples being...

“The kingdom of God is within you” . ~ Jesus Christ (Luke 17:21)

Allah is closer to you than your jugular vein. ~ Quran 50:16.



A subjective experience would suggest a conditioned experience based on one's past memories, experiences and conditioning.


However enlightenment is said to be the unconditioned or unprogrammed state of consciousness.

What evidence suggests Rajini was perfectly righteous?

You can read her own testimony and interview in this regard as shown in this thread (last post)...

Female enlightened master Rajini Menon on attaining enlightenment by adhering to virtuous conduct...

 

[Redemptionsong]

your quote:the big mistake you make is thinking that you can discover the truth. This is the route taken by the vain philosopher. Logic teaches us that, however bright you might be, and however many questions you might ask, you can never hope to know everything.
MY ANSWER: This is the wall you create for yourself that will prevent you from Discovering anything at all.
If scientists believed this, we would all still be in the stone age.

What is the first thing a wise man realizes once a wise man truly becomes wise?? Anybody?? Anybody?? The first thing a wise man realizes once a wise man truly becomes wise is that there is so much more to learn.

A hungry student doesn't worry about knowing everything. A hungry student only wants to know more!!

How about this for logic: If God exists, then God can be found. This is not talking about beliefs. On the other hand, I find very few people really want to find God.

This is all perfectly OK!! Life isn't about finding God. Further, life isn't about holy books and following either.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

What you are not distinguishing between is the Creator and His creation. Science is applied to understanding the creation, not the Creator. Faith should, in my opinion, be applied as our response to the Creator.

What have you discovered about God using your scientific methods?

 

[ajay0]

What you are not distinguishing between is the Creator and His creation. Science is applied to understanding the creation, not the Creator.

This statement is very insightful.

As per the enlightened sage Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, science and spirituality are linked and compatible, both springing from the urge to know.

The question, "Who am I?" leads to spirituality; the question, "What is this?" leads to science.

 

[Bird123]

That just doesn't seek likely. The very fact we can have complex cultures and understand then intuitively strongly shows we must extensively behave amd think alike or none of this is well understood or functioning well.
Amd things we find just do not suggest it is our own choices who make us. Such as, serial killers are uniform in having certain genetic traits, brain structures, and being horribly abused as children.
Studies into identical twins consistently show us, time and time again, the twins are alike in appearance and behaviors and personalities.
We also that subconsciously the brain has decided before we are consciously aware a decision has been made.
When children are abused we can predict how they turn out as adults. When someone wins the lottery we predict it won't be long before this person is broke. When groups are involved it is just the same that we can predict what we will happen. Not with 100% accuracy, but well enough that choice just doesn't seem to be going on in a lot of things. Or manipulation wouldn't be a thing.

It's so much easier to take a few incidents then create labels attempting to place people in an appropriate box. Is this really studying everything one needs to know? I think not. How many identical twins are not exactly alike? I have seen a introvert and the other extrovert. I have seen one sane and the other insane. I have seen one gay and the other straight. I have seen one happy go lucky and the other a toxic mess.

Labels are a short cut that leaves so much undiscovered in favor of easy. Much more knowledge exists beyond the surface than one can imagine. Explore deeper and you will Discover so much more.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's so much easier to take a few incidents then create labels attempting to place people in an appropriate box.

It's not a few incidents. Many and numerous studies into identical twins over the decades consistently keep showing identical twins are more alike than they are different.

Labels are a short cut that leaves so much undiscovered in favor of easy. Much more knowledge exists beyond the surface than one can imagine. Explore deeper and you will Discover so much more.

Best to not assume I haven't looked deep.
I looked into the Abyss, and when it stared back I hugged and invited it over for cookies.

 

[We Never Know]

It's not a few incidents. Many and numerous studies into twins over the decades consistently keep showing identical twins are more alike than they are different.

Identical or fraternal? Or both?

Oops I over looked that you had identical in your post