Righteousness

[Shadow Wolf]

Identical or fraternal? Or both?

Oops I over looked that you had identical in your post

I should have put it first for clarity (and did edit it).

 

[Bird123]

What you are not distinguishing between is the Creator and His creation. Science is applied to understanding the creation, not the Creator. Faith should, in my opinion, be applied as our response to the Creator.

What have you discovered about God using your scientific methods?

Don't you understand? The creation reflects the Creator. You can tell more about someone through their actions and choices than almost any other thing.

Perhaps the real task at hand is understanding God's actions. There is one thing I can tell you. All God's actions will add up. This is a way of telling you are on the right track. You must use High Intellect and High Reasoning. If you lead and go on nothing but feelings, you will wander off the path.

So often religion is an emotional thing, a feeling thing, a faith thing, however let's not forget any Being capable of creating all this has a High Intellect with High Reasoning. Perhaps, it's time for more to try to connect with God in this area.

Let's look at science and religion. Science might use beliefs and feelings to focus a direction to research, however science uses high reason to confirm those beliefs and feelings. Science always searches for new knowledge to build and advance their acquired knowledge, but most important of all science corrects those errors!!

Religion relies totally on beliefs. They teach people to value beliefs and faith simply because that is all they have. Religions never search for new knowledge. They think they already know it all. ( what did you say about logic and knowing everything?) Can you not see their error in this thinking? Finally, religion does not correct those errors. They think there are none. Is it really logical to think what they say is perfect? Yet, can you not find any errors? Do you even question or search for the real truth??

Pick!! Who wins? By studying God's creation, science is also studying God as well. Since they correct those errors, science is walking straight toward God. Science will Discover God before religion ever will.

Since religion will not correct those errors, there will come a day when religion will become obsolete. This will not happen any time soon, however in time, it will become a reality.

Everything about God WILL ADD UP!! Do the Math not the feelings!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Redemptionsong]

Don't you understand? The creation reflects the Creator. You can tell more about someone through their actions and choices than almost any other thing.

Perhaps the real task at hand is understanding God's actions. There is one thing I can tell you. All God's actions will add up. This is a way of telling you are on the right track. You must use High Intellect and High Reasoning. If you lead and go on nothing but feelings, you will wander off the path.

So often religion is an emotional thing, a feeling thing, a faith thing, however let's not forget any Being capable of creating all this has a High Intellect with High Reasoning. Perhaps, it's time for more to try to connect with God in this area.

Let's look at science and religion. Science might use beliefs and feelings to focus a direction to research, however science uses high reason to confirm those beliefs and feelings. Science always searches for new knowledge to build and advance their acquired knowledge, but most important of all science corrects those errors!!

Religion relies totally on beliefs. They teach people to value beliefs and faith simply because that is all they have. Religions never search for new knowledge. They think they already know it all. ( what did you say about logic and knowing everything?) Can you not see their error in this thinking? Finally, religion does not correct those errors. They think there are none. Is it really logical to think what they say is perfect? Yet, can you not find any errors? Do you even question or search for the real truth??

Pick!! Who wins? By studying God's creation, science is also studying God as well. Since they correct those errors, science is walking straight toward God. Science will Discover God before religion ever will.

Since religion will not correct those errors, there will come a day when religion will become obsolete. This will not happen any time soon, however in time, it will become a reality.

Everything about God WILL ADD UP!! Do the Math not the feelings!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

If science is the means to uncovering God, what has science taught us about God so far?

 

[Bird123]

If science is the means to uncovering God, what has science taught us about God so far?

Science shows us the high Intelligence behind things. When one opens one door it leads to more doors which leads to more knowledge. Example; Science starts with figuring out how the body works and what the organs do. Open a few doors and you Discover DNA. You find genes and chromosomes and the blueprint of a human body. The next door leads forward.

There is depth behind knowledge. So much more exists beyond the surface. God places it all out there. It waits to be Discovered. The farther down the journey and you will find the more complex the knowledge.

Science shows us things about God do add up. When one insists on things adding up, it is a step toward God instead of merely beliefs. What actually is, is important.

God is Big on what actually is.

Now for your question: What has religion taught anyone about God? I am assuming you know God and not a bunch of beliefs of who God is which might only reflect mankind and no one else.. Your answer will address that issue.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Redemptionsong]

Science shows us the high Intelligence behind things. When one opens one door it leads to more doors which leads to more knowledge. Example; Science starts with figuring out how the body works and what the organs do. Open a few doors and you Discover DNA. You find genes and chromosomes and the blueprint of a human body. The next door leads forward.

There is depth behind knowledge. So much more exists beyond the surface. God places it all out there. It waits to be Discovered. The farther down the journey and you will find the more complex the knowledge.

Science shows us things about God do add up. When one insists on things adding up, it is a step toward God instead of merely beliefs. What actually is, is important.

God is Big on what actually is.

Now for your question: What has religion taught anyone about God? I am assuming you know God and not a bunch of beliefs of who God is which might only reflect mankind and no one else.. Your answer will address that issue.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

So, a man like Richard Dawkins, who has spent a lifetime studying evolutionary biology, should, according to your theory, be very close to God. Yet, as we see, he is a self-proclaimed atheist.

The evidence of the natural world is, IMO, ambiguous with regard to God. Some will see evidence of God, but others will not!

My argument is not that religion brings knowledge of God, but that the Holy Spirit reveals Himself when a person submits themselves in faith to Jesus Christ. My experience is that faith in Christ gives personal knowledge of God.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Faith in what? Your personal beliefs?

Generally I believe in life which results in hope, happiness, trust, and freedom.

 

[Bird123]

So, a man like Richard Dawkins, who has spent a lifetime studying evolutionary biology, should, according to your theory, be very close to God. Yet, as we see, he is a self-proclaimed atheist.

The evidence of the natural world is, IMO, ambiguous with regard to God. Some will see evidence of God, but others will not!

My argument is not that religion brings knowledge of God, but that the Holy Spirit reveals Himself when a person submits themselves in faith to Jesus Christ. My experience is that faith in Christ gives personal knowledge of God.

Don't you understand? Richard Dawkins is every bit a child of God as you are. Do you really think your beliefs or your faith make God love you more? It has never ever been about faith or believing.

There is a lot to see and Discover. It isn't just about the natural world. It's about why things are done the way they are. Why does God do that? Understanding God comes from understanding God's choices and actions.

There is order and Genius behind it all. if you can't see, forget all you think you know about God, widen your view, start over, and see what actually exists. It is staring us all in the face. If you still can't see, realize, it's going to take work.

Just who is this holy spirit and why does he demand a submission of faith? The holy spirit is just like the devil, neither exist. I keep telling people to send them to me yet no one shows up. Why are the holy spirit and the devil so afraid of me? They do not exist. Do people really need these crutches? I think not!!

There are a lot of writings about Christ.He was dead long before I could meet him. Since, I really did not know Christ, I can not say what reflection of God he might have portrait. On the other hand, each of us in our own way speak of God since we are God's creations and creation is an action of God.

Contrary to popular belief, Poof creation is no more than a story. God created everything to unfold in such a way mankind would be able, in time. to figure it all out. Maybe Richard Dawkins sees things you choose to be blind to. On the other hand, maybe Mr, Dawkins reaction to his adversity prevented him from seeing things as well.

Let's look at an action of God. God doesn't just give everyone knowledge. People must choose to discover then work at Discovering knowledge. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to acquire knowledge. God is not serving up all the knowledge on a silver platter like religions do with beliefs. So when others serve up beliefs, perhaps it's time to Question rather than merely accept.

If Christ really preached sin, judging, condemning, punishing, Hell, believing, faith, wrath, anger, pay back and being lacking in the eyes of God, then Christ did not know God at all. These petty things reflect mankind more than any thing else. On the other hand, if Christ preached nothing except Unconditional Love, then Christ might be headed in the right direction. Mankind is a controlling lot. There really is no way to know Christ until you actually meet him.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Redemptionsong]

Don't you understand? Richard Dawkins is every bit a child of God as you are. Do you really think your beliefs or your faith make God love you more? It has never ever been about faith or believing.

There is a lot to see and Discover. It isn't just about the natural world. It's about why things are done the way they are. Why does God do that? Understanding God comes from understanding God's choices and actions.

There is order and Genius behind it all. if you can't see, forget all you think you know about God, widen your view, start over, and see what actually exists. It is staring us all in the face. If you still can't see, realize, it's going to take work.

Just who is this holy spirit and why does he demand a submission of faith? The holy spirit is just like the devil, neither exist. I keep telling people to send them to me yet no one shows up. Why are the holy spirit and the devil so afraid of me? They do not exist. Do people really need these crutches? I think not!!

There are a lot of writings about Christ.He was dead long before I could meet him. Since, I really did not know Christ, I can not say what reflection of God he might have portrait. On the other hand, each of us in our own way speak of God since we are God's creations and creation is an action of God.

Contrary to popular belief, Poof creation is no more than a story. God created everything to unfold in such a way mankind would be able, in time. to figure it all out. Maybe Richard Dawkins sees things you choose to be blind to. On the other hand, maybe Mr, Dawkins reaction to his adversity prevented him from seeing things as well.

Let's look at an action of God. God doesn't just give everyone knowledge. People must choose to discover then work at Discovering knowledge. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to acquire knowledge. God is not serving up all the knowledge on a silver platter like religions do with beliefs. So when others serve up beliefs, perhaps it's time to Question rather than merely accept.

If Christ really preached sin, judging, condemning, punishing, Hell, believing, faith, wrath, anger, pay back and being lacking in the eyes of God, then Christ did not know God at all. These petty things reflect mankind more than any thing else. On the other hand, if Christ preached nothing except Unconditional Love, then Christ might be headed in the right direction. Mankind is a controlling lot. There really is no way to know Christ until you actually meet him.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

What you see may be very clear to you but it has little to do with the truth revealed by God in the Bible. It's through faith in God's Word that the Truth is known, lMO.

One of the most fundamental truths taught by the Bible, lMO, is that all men have sinned. And when stuck in the mire of sin one cannot save oneself, which is why all men need God's Son as Saviour.

As John asks, 'Who is he that overcometh the world but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?' [1 John 5:5]

 

[Bird123]

What you see may be very clear to you but it has little to do with the truth revealed by God in the Bible. It's through faith in God's Word that the Truth is known, lMO.

One of the most fundamental truths taught by the Bible, lMO, is that all men have sinned. And when stuck in the mire of sin one cannot save oneself, which is why all men need God's Son as Saviour.

As John asks, 'Who is he that overcometh the world but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?' [1 John 5:5]

God reveals truth by what actually exists.

The Bible is a creation of mankind. If God had information needed for mankind to have, why have mankind write a book about it? God would just implant the knowledge. This would eliminate how everyone would get the knowledge especially before the printing press was invented. Even today, everyone in the world does not have a copy of your holy book.

From an intelligent point of view, is being dependent on holy books really an intelligent move? I think not! Are you saying God is not intelligent or that I can come up with a better idea to get information to the people??? On the other hand, religions depend on their book of beliefs. Religions depend on people valuing beliefs and faith above facts and truth.

Do people really get stuck in the mire of sin? I do not see it. You might not like it but making a few bad choices is a part of learning and growing. Haven't you ever said: " I'll never do that again" after making a bad choice? Were you stuck in any mire? God doesn't hate people who makes bad choices. God counts on everyone learning about their choices regardless of whether those choices are good or bad.

Has religion convinced you that there is something wrong with you so that you need them in order to fix you? Has God really created everyone to be stuck in a mire so that everyone is dependent on God? Does this really sound like the actions of an Intelligent Being??

Questions!! Questions!! Questions!! To Question is the start on the journey to Discovery!! Accepting says I do not care to Discover anything at all. Which is the most intellectual choice? Which will bring the greatest advancement in knowledge?

You can't have it both ways. Either you want the perceived security of that box of beliefs or you want the real truth even if that truth conflicts with that box of beliefs. In order to correct errors, one must be willing to Discover and not merely accept!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Redemptionsong]

God reveals truth by what actually exists.

The Bible is a creation of mankind. If God had information needed for mankind to have, why have mankind write a book about it? God would just implant the knowledge. This would eliminate how everyone would get the knowledge especially before the printing press was invented. Even today, everyone in the world does not have a copy of your holy book.

From an intelligent point of view, is being dependent on holy books really an intelligent move? I think not! Are you saying God is not intelligent or that I can come up with a better idea to get information to the people??? On the other hand, religions depend on their book of beliefs. Religions depend on people valuing beliefs and faith above facts and truth.

Do people really get stuck in the mire of sin? I do not see it. You might not like it but making a few bad choices is a part of learning and growing. Haven't you ever said: " I'll never do that again" after making a bad choice? Were you stuck in any mire? God doesn't hate people who makes bad choices. God counts on everyone learning about their choices regardless of whether those choices are good or bad.

Has religion convinced you that there is something wrong with you so that you need them in order to fix you? Has God really created everyone to be stuck in a mire so that everyone is dependent on God? Does this really sound like the actions of an Intelligent Being??

Questions!! Questions!! Questions!! To Question is the start on the journey to Discovery!! Accepting says I do not care to Discover anything at all. Which is the most intellectual choice? Which will bring the greatest advancement in knowledge?

You can't have it both ways. Either you want the perceived security of that box of beliefs or you want the real truth even if that truth conflicts with that box of beliefs. In order to correct errors, one must be willing to Discover and not merely accept!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Proverbs 3:5. 'Trust in the LORD with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.'

I'm happy to have my paths directed by the Good Shepherd, thanks.

Many are the false shepherds who have claimed to be 'the way'!

IMO.

 

[osgart]

What is 'righteousness', in your opinion?

How is (your idea of) righteousness achieved?

Does it matter if you fail to achieve (your idea of) righteousness?

Given that RFs reflect a spectrum of thought, l'm interested to hear a wide range of views on this issue.

Righteousness is having complete heart for the virtues. And the goal of virtues is love, joy, and peace.

Righteousness can do no vices.

Righteousness always seeks to create true peace, joy, love.

The heart of righteousness is to charity.

Righteousness seeks out to reward or correct people with what they deserve without error in judgment.

Humanity is not righteous. The best humanity can do is to be good people of virtues. But for people to never make errors in judgment is fantasy. It can't be done.

Only an all knowing witness of good heart can be righteous. So righteousness is a lot of fantasy, not so much any reality. Righteousness can be conceived of rather easily, but to attain it is impossible as a human. But people should always make best effort for truth and right.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Righteousness is having complete heart for the virtues. And the goal of virtues is love, joy, and peace.

Righteousness can do no vices.

Righteousness always seeks to create true peace, joy, love.

The heart of righteousness is to charity.

Righteousness seeks out to reward or correct people with what they deserve without error in judgment.

Humanity is not righteous. The best humanity can do is to be good people of virtues. But for people to never make errors in judgment is fantasy. It can't be done.

Only an all knowing witness of good heart can be righteous. So righteousness is a lot of fantasy, not so much any reality. Righteousness can be conceived of rather easily, but to attain it is impossible as a human. But people should always make best effort for truth and right.

Do you agree with the Torah that Noah was a righteous man?

 

[osgart]

Do you agree with the Torah that Noah was a righteous man?

I don't know of any evidence that he existed. It's an interesting story.

 

[Bird123]

Proverbs 3:5. 'Trust in the LORD with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.'

I'm happy to have my paths directed by the Good Shepherd, thanks.

Many are the false shepherds who have claimed to be 'the way'!

IMO.

You are right. One should not be following at all. One should not be sheep. God created a world where brains win. We are all meant to THINK!!! not blindly follow.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!