Rioting in Tottenham

[MissAlice]

I have to agree with Sahar. This supposedly started as a peaceful protest but then got violent. I think it attracted other people besides the protesters as do many protests. All these guys are doing is looting and burning stuff. There was one video that really irked me. They take stuff from an injured kid's bag.


‪Scum Steal off an Injured Victim of the London Riots‬‏ - YouTube


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLPxmKf02C4[/youtube]



I don't know but this to me does not look like a protest, it looks like a bunch of thugs stealing and burning property. They're basically attacking their own community not the cause of the situation. This just looks like pure selfish ness and FYI I know what it's like to be discriminated in my own country for being poor. I've faced it many times and have even gone homeless. These guys are just making the poor class look bad as if the media hasn't done that already. And I want to say I think there is another side to this issue that is also not good. A man was shot by a cop and there is something fishy about the whole thing, but I won't say more since I don't know enough.

 

[kai]

I disagree with the last statement. For example, here in my country the people were marginalized for many years, yet their voices were heard at last through their peaceful protests, heck, the managed to change an entire regime with millions of people demonstrating peacefully.

I heard some people find excuses for the behavior "they want their voices to be heard"...I think they want to harm and destroy rather than being heard. They had the choice to protest while gaining the respect of their fellow citizens...but harming people's properties and endangering their lives like this has nothing to do with wanting to be listened to.

I agree! this all seems to be about violence, destruction and theft, if there is a protest or grevience i haven't heard it yet. In this country there are many many ways to protest peacefully. It seems to be wholesale looting ! There was an original peaceful demonstration about a guy getting shot by the police but that has been well overshadowed by the violence in many cities i the UK where this incident didn't happen

 

[Alceste]

I have to agree with Sahar. This supposedly started as a peaceful protest but then got violent. I think it attracted other people besides the protesters as do many protests. All these guys are doing is looting and burning stuff. There was one video that really irked me. They take stuff from an injured kid's bag.

You asked what sparked it - the police shot and killed a man - a father of four - who they had pulled out of a mini-cab. When his family and a few hundred community members gathered outside the police station to protest and demand an explanation, after stonewalling requests to speak to a senior officer for hours, a dozen or so police beat the living tar out of a sixteen year old girl who may or may not have thrown something towards them in frustration. The situation exploded and this is the result - chaos in the streets.

 

[methylatedghosts]

You asked what sparked it - the police shot and killed a man - a father of four - who they had pulled out of a mini-cab. When his family and a few hundred community members gathered outside the police station to protest and demand an explanation, after stonewalling requests to speak to a senior officer for hours, a dozen or so police beat the living tar out of a sixteen year old girl who may or may not have thrown something towards them in frustration. The situation exploded and this is the result - chaos in the streets.

It feels to me that the shooting was the catalyst for, rather than the cause of, the rioting

 

[MissAlice]

You asked what sparked it - the police shot and killed a man - a father of four - who they had pulled out of a mini-cab. When his family and a few hundred community members gathered outside the police station to protest and demand an explanation, after stonewalling requests to speak to a senior officer for hours, a dozen or so police beat the living tar out of a sixteen year old girl who may or may not have thrown something towards them in frustration. The situation exploded and this is the result - chaos in the streets.

Yes but I highly doubt these protesters are doing it for the benefit of Mark Duggan. If they are, they're making it worse for themselves. I already stated I am also suspicious of this case. I believe the police are definitely hiding something. However I don't think this excuses the behavior that is going on. I do know what it's like to be angry and frustrated. I have lived homeless and lived in a working family that made little to nothing. I am currently without a job. Does that make it right for me to go rob stores, bash and burn buildings and steal from people? I admit, if I was starving it would probably be a very different situation. I still do not see why it is ok to do what they are doing and I'm not singling out the protesters who are not doing this. Hats off to these people including Duggan's family. It's very tragic and needs investigation. Now sadly this is being lost amidst the violent riots. Again I doubt most of these kids give a censored word for this guy who was shot If they cared they would show their faces and bring forth what they're mad about. Resorting to violence and robbing is to me nothing but malicious and cowardly and does not really do a good job in sending the message across. But that's just an opinion by the dumb american trailer trash who lives in a trailer down by the lake.

 

[lunakilo]

Just thought I would share this as it made me smile: Iran urges UK to restrain police

 

[kai]

You asked what sparked it - the police shot and killed a man - a father of four - who they had pulled out of a mini-cab. When his family and a few hundred community members gathered outside the police station to protest and demand an explanation, after stonewalling requests to speak to a senior officer for hours, a dozen or so police beat the living tar out of a sixteen year old girl who may or may not have thrown something towards them in frustration. The situation exploded and this is the result - chaos in the streets.

Got any sources on all that? theres a lot conflicting information about, like the firearm recovered from the mini cab? Gang links ? etc.

Is the the unlawful death of an innocent man and the country has erupted ?
or the death of a "gangsta" and the "gangstas" have erupted.
or is it nothing to do with it at all ?

I dont see what it has to do with rioting in my nearest city by groups of teenagers. I even heard a report on the radio this morning of a whole family with kids and all ,turning up at a supermarket that was being looted and filling up their car with groceries.





http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/mark-duggan-profile-tottenham-shooting


The latest developments come as one community organiser suggested the handgun recovered was found in a sock and therefore not ready for use.

( pardon my mirth )


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/police-attack-london-burns

 

[Koldaramor]

British police in a deplorable condition for.


C/P

Turkish community forming protection squads against the looting/riot community.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According the the London Daily News, intelligence from local groups in Wood Green and Tottenham is indicating that more violence is expected on Sunday in Tottenham and Wood Green with Brixton now likely to see the next flashpoints.

Shop owners along Wood Green, Turnpike Lane and Green Lanes, the majority of which are of Kurdish or Turkish owned have formed local protection units following riots in Tottenham which have spilled over to Wood Green.

"We do not have any trust in the local police, our shops are next on the target list by the black thugs who have ransacked Tottenham, we will protect our property", said a leading member of the Green Lanes "unit".

Orlando Breody a Wood Green resident and one of the looters from last night said to The London Daily News this morning:

"Its now time the police and the Government experience the anger of the people we will not stop until justice is seen to be done over the execution of Mark Duggan"

It's about time we saw vigilantes, why should we be terrorised by any particular community just because the police are infective

 

[Panda]

Last night there was rioting in London, Birmingham, Manchester, Nottingham, Leicester, Gloucester and I think others.

This has nothing to do with the shooting of Mr Duggan but is all to do with senseless violence and opportunistic crime. The police need to bring out the rubber bullets and water cannons to stop these idiots.

As a side note while riots are happening in lots of England's major cities one of the world's biggest arts festivals is taking place in Edinburgh. For once Scotland is the model of good behaviour

 

[Koldaramor]

humanity rotten

[youtube]DNh-fTv1Gm8[/youtube]
‪London Riots 2011 - Man Helped and Then Robbed.‬‏ - YouTube

 

[Onkara]

Maybe they need religion in their lives to fill the gap which consumerism causes?

 

[HonestJoe]

You asked what sparked it - the police shot and killed a man - a father of four - who they had pulled out of a mini-cab.

A case under investgation but appears to have involved a planned arrest of a criminal suspect who was believed to be (and apparently was) armed. Nobody knows exactly what happened and so can't honestly and fairly react to it.

When his family and a few hundred community members gathered outside the police station to protest and demand an explanation, after stonewalling requests to speak to a senior officer for hours

My emphasis. It was a serious incident that had happened a matter of hours previously as was already under investigation. What on Earth do you (or did they) think a senior officer could possibly tell them at that point in time. Even without the significant legal restrictions, there would be practical limitations to what they knew for certain. Maybe someone should have spoken to the family but, given the limited statement they'd be able to make, who's to say what the reaction of that crowd might have been. Would anything short of the officers involved being strung up in front of them placated their knee-jerk anger?

a dozen or so police beat the living tar out of a sixteen year old girl who may or may not have thrown something towards them in frustration.

Still an unconfirmed and unclear incident (the fuzzy video "proof" is ridiculous). Even if the rioting thugs and thieves were aware of the rumours of that incident, it is absolutely zero justification for anything they did.

The situation exploded and this is the result - chaos in the streets.

The incidents involving the police are excuses, not reasons. The only reason this situation exploded is because a whole load of thugs and idiots chose to make it explode. Every smashed window was smashed by someone who chose to do it. Every fire started was started by someone who chose to do it. Every shop robbed was robbed by someone who chose to do it. Every missile thrown at police was thrown by someone who chose to do it. Every attempted murder (and only by luck "attempted" so far) was attempted by someone who chose to do it. They carry 100% of the responsibility for their actions - not ifs or buts about it.

The Police (individually and as an organisation) carry 100% responsibility for their actions too but anyone trying to use those (or rumour, speculation and, quite frankly, lies about them) as a justification for violent thuggary would be no better than the thugs themselves.

 

[Alceste]

It feels to me that the shooting was the catalyst for, rather than the cause of, the rioting

I would agree with that. The killing and the public beating of a teenage girl in front of the family of the murdered man and a crowd of their supporters sparked things off but by now every knuckle-dragging imbicile in the country seems to be using the chaos as an opportunity to get their rage on and grab free stuff. And of course the police don't mind having a chance to thrash people with impunity, but that's business as usual for them.

 

[Alceste]

Got any sources on all that? theres a lot conflicting information about, like the firearm recovered from the mini cab? Gang links ? etc.

Is the the unlawful death of an innocent man and the country has erupted ?
or the death of a "gangsta" and the "gangstas" have erupted.
or is it nothing to do with it at all ?

I dont see what it has to do with rioting in my nearest city by groups of teenagers. I even heard a report on the radio this morning of a whole family with kids and all ,turning up at a supermarket that was being looted and filling up their car with groceries.





Mark Duggan: profile of Tottenham police shooting victim | UK news | The Guardian

The beating of a girl at the protest was mentioned by the BBC, Al Jazeera, CBC radio and even the Daily Mail. I don't think its in dispute. One witness says she was only yelling, another says she threw a leaflet and something else, maybe a stone, toward the police line.

I don't believe we will ever know what really happened to Duggan or why. It's ridicous to let police investigate their own crimes.

 

[Father Heathen]

I think the mentality is

"I'm really very angry. No-one has listened to me. I've tried everything. This is what it takes for people to listen to me."

And with a whole crowd thinking along those lines, it's going to turn into action. It's bound to happen. It's people wanting to be listened to.

But by victimizing the innocent, they don't deserve a voice.

 

[HonestJoe]

The beating of a girl at the protest was mentioned by the BBC, Al Jazeera, CBC radio and even the Daily Mail. I don't think its in dispute.

They're all referring to an unsubstantiated allegation though (but not always reporting it as such), generally silently referencing each other in their "facts". Plenty of times in the past the media have been caught out copying reports from each other only to subsequently find out the first in the chain got it wrong. It all sells papers though so who cares about a bit more stirring up anger and hatred against the police?

I don't believe we will ever know what really happened to Duggan or why. It's ridicous to let police investigate their own crimes.

Who do you think is investigating and why do you think they're investigating a crime?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The beating of a girl at the protest was mentioned by the BBC, Al Jazeera, CBC radio and even the Daily Mail. I don't think its in dispute. One witness says she was only yelling, another says she threw a leaflet and something else, maybe a stone, toward the police line.

I don't believe we will ever know what really happened to Duggan or why.It's ridicous to let police investigate their own crimes.[/quote]

They don't and can't... that is why the independent police complaints board do it. Some times it is even passed to a judge to lead it.

 

[9Westy9]

My personal view is that if these rioters want to riot and not take part in a civil society then they don't deserve to be treated as citizens. The thing is that all the people who are rioting appear to be people we would brand as 'chavs' or 'yobs'. Now it's becoming less of a protest to the incident in Tottenham and more of a "Let's get some free stuff". It's quite frankly uncivilized behaviour and the government should take any means necessary to stop these rioters. Whether they need to use physical force like attacking rioters or even shooting rioters, something drastic needs to be done to stop it.

 

[sandandfoam]

something drastic needs to be done to stop it.

Indeed.
A more equal society.

 

[sandandfoam]

Interesting article
These riots reflect a society run on greed and looting | Seumas Milne | Comment is free | The Guardian