Robots

[FearGod]

We're All Just Robots.. Humans Only Have More And Differing Options With Our Responses And Experiences Than Most Other Life Forms.. Or Actual Robots. Free Will Becomes More And More Illusory With The More Options We Have To "Choose" From, And With Less Knowledge Of Them, Their Number, And The Reasoning Behind Them. This Is More Our World, Than A Robot's.. Because Of Our Connection To It.

I'm Christian. And Because Of This, I Actually Came To, And Have A Better Understanding Of This Idea.

I Also Suggest That Robots Indeed Have A Lower Level Consciousness. Random And Weird?

To some extent,yes we're robots,but we got the free will.

We can't deny that many things in our bodies are working according to programs which we have nothing to do with.

 

[Sir Doom]

That is it. Nurture never ends though, until you die. Nurture is the 'the sum of environmental influences and conditions acting on an organism'.

Haha, well that's a creative interpretation, to say the least. I would like to point out that you are ignoring a massive part of my decision making process. See if you can guess it by the end of this post!

Do you mean a logical contradiction?
As much as autoimmune diseases are.

I don't see the connection between a disease and the fact that you said I am bound by nature to both flee pain and ignore it.

Yes, except i wouldn't use the word 'miraculously'.

So you are like the other guy, in that you believe that without FULL OMNIPOTENT CONTROL of reality we do not have ANY choice at all?

You only made vague assertions as to how you determine your choices in a former post, however i formulated this question to show you are unable to determine anything about your choices if you don't have any previous criteria.

You are ignoring the part about robots that I've been repeating. It isn't important HOW I make choices. That is a separate debate altogether which we have been continuing independent of this. The fact remains that I DO make choices where as robots DO NOT. Not by criteria. Not by random. Not by any method whatsoever. They are INCAPABLE of choice in ANY conceivable fashion. Not even the extremely limited level of choice you seem to think we are stuck with. They do not even have that illusory version. NOTHING like it at all.

I am unable to do this due to my lack of knowledge on how your conciousness works exactly and in specifics ( nature) and because i am not able to take into consideration every factor that contributed to your nurture.

And yet, you are convinced that this is the case? Could you even venture a guess at this path? More importantly, could you do it without including previous decisions I've made as influences on future decisions? I bet you'd have a hard time leaving me out of the picture. Think about it...

 

[PolyHedral]

So you are like the other guy, in that you believe that without FULL OMNIPOTENT CONTROL of reality we do not have ANY choice at all?

Even if you did, you couldn't choose. It would just be more obvious where the strings are.

 

[Sir Doom]

Even if you did, you couldn't choose. It would just be more obvious where the strings are.

So, as long as we're redefining choice, we might as well redefine omnipotence as well? Now I can see exactly why humans are robots. We've just changed the meaning of the word! So simple, why didn't I see it before?

 

[Koldo]

Haha, well that's a creative interpretation, to say the least. I would like to point out that you are ignoring a massive part of my decision making process. See if you can guess it by the end of this post!

Is this a compliment?

I don't see the connection between a disease and the fact that you said I am bound by nature to both flee pain and ignore it.

An autoimmune disease is your body attacking itself. The irony is that it is the part "supposed" to defend your body doing it. So when you have a disease of this sort, you have a system that is programmed to both attack and defend your body. Do you also consider this to be a logical contradiction?

Your body is not such a simpleton that it would make you choose to flee pain automatically. It is in your nature the ability to stand pain when it is beneficial.

So you are like the other guy, in that you believe that without FULL OMNIPOTENT CONTROL of reality we do not have ANY choice at all?

No. Unless by choice you mean it as in the libertarian 'free will', in which case an omnipotent god able to do ( truly ) illogical things would be able to do it.

You are ignoring the part about robots that I've been repeating. It isn't important HOW I make choices. That is a separate debate altogether which we have been continuing independent of this. The fact remains that I DO make choices where as robots DO NOT. Not by criteria. Not by random. Not by any method whatsoever. They are INCAPABLE of choice in ANY conceivable fashion. Not even the extremely limited level of choice you seem to think we are stuck with. They do not even have that illusory version. NOTHING like it at all.

If i offer a robot two options ( number 10 and number 20 ), and i set it to always select the highest number ( a criteria ), the robot is going to pick the number 20. Isn't this a choice?

And yet, you are convinced that this is the case? Could you even venture a guess at this path? More importantly, could you do it without including previous decisions I've made as influences on future decisions? I bet you'd have a hard time leaving me out of the picture. Think about it...

I am convinced this is the case. I do not need to know the specifics of how the sun works to tell you that being exposed to sunlight for several hours is going to, temporally, change the colour of your skin.

I do not comprehend what you are talking about on leaving you out of this. If i am taking into consideration your nature and nurture, how can i possibly be leaving you out of this?

 

[PolyHedral]

So, as long as we're redefining choice, we might as well redefine omnipotence as well? Now I can see exactly why humans are robots. We've just changed the meaning of the word! So simple, why didn't I see it before?

How do you choose when you can perfectly see the future?

 

[Sir Doom]

Is this a compliment?

In a roundabout sort of way.

An autoimmune disease is your body attacking itself. The irony is that it is the part "supposed" to defend your body doing it. So when you have a disease of this sort, you have a system that is programmed to both attack and defend your body. Do you also consider this to be a logical contradiction?

When you state it like this, it is a logical contradiction, yes. Of course, that's only when you state it like you have. It's been 'programmed' to attack pathogens and defend the body. That's not a contradiction at all. And since that's ACTUALLY what's happening, it's probably better to say that.

Your body is not such a simpleton that it would make you choose to flee pain automatically. It is in your nature the ability to stand pain when it is beneficial.

I wonder how it accomplishes that. I hope it doesn't simply obey my commands. That would be a real problem for your argument.

No. Unless by choice you mean it as in the libertarian 'free will', in which case an omnipotent god able to do ( truly ) illogical things would be able to do it.

Then I fail to see the relevance of our existence within a structured, predictable, universe. How does this, in any way remove choice?

If i offer a robot two options ( number 10 and number 20 ), and i set it to always select the highest number ( a criteria ), the robot is going to pick the number 20. Isn't this a choice?

No. This is absolutely not a choice by the robot. This is a choice by you. You've made a number-20-picking machine. There are no other options for the robot, and it does not even realize it is fulfilling your choice. It sees no difference between picking 10 and picking 20 beyond the fact that you've eliminated 10 as an option with your setting so it can't pick it. It's not really 'picking' at all. You've picked.

I am convinced this is the case. I do not need to know the specifics of how the sun works to tell you that being exposed to sunlight for several hours is going to, temporally, change the colour of your skin.

I do not comprehend what you are talking about on leaving you out of this. If i am taking into consideration your nature and nurture, how can i possibly be leaving you out of this?

So you are admitting that I am in control of both my nature and my nurture? As opposed to the other way around?

 

[Sir Doom]

How do you choose when you can perfectly see the future?

Like I said, redefining omnipotence.

If you are omnipotent, the future should be as malleable as everything else in reality. Otherwise... you aren't omnipotent.

 

[PolyHedral]

Like I said, redefining omnipotence.

If you are omnipotent, the future should be as malleable as everything else in reality. Otherwise... you aren't omnipotent.

Omnipotence can't produce logical contradictions.

 

[Sir Doom]

Omnipotence can't produce logical contradictions.

I'm not sure who told you that, but they also have no idea what omnipotence means.

Riddle me this, what do you call an omnipotent being that can ignore logic? Super-omnipotent? Extra-omnipotent? Ultra-omnipotent?

 

[PolyHedral]

I'm not sure who told you that, but they also have no idea what omnipotence means.

Riddle me this, what do you call an omnipotent being that can ignore logic? Super-omnipotent? Extra-omnipotent? Ultra-omnipotent?

Non-existent.

 

[Sir Doom]

Non-existent.

As opposed to the clearly existent omnipotence you describe? Knock it off already.

 

[waitasec]

just had a thought.

would a robot get scared watching a horror movie?
would a robot get sad watching a sad movie?
would a robot understand humor...sarcasm in a movie?

reason why i mention a movie is because as humans we allow ourselves to get lost in the made up story as our imagination takes us there...

how about reading a book? would a robot read a book and envision the scene that is on the page?

 

[PolyHedral]

As opposed to the clearly existent omnipotence you describe? Knock it off already.

Omnipotence cannot involve logical contradiction. That statement is true by definition.

 

[Sir Doom]

Omnipotence cannot involve logical contradiction. That statement is true by definition.

Omnipotence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Between people of different faiths, or indeed between people of the same faith, the term omnipotent has been used to connote a number of different positions. These positions include, but are not limited to, the following:

• A deity is able to do absolutely anything, even the logically impossible, i.e., pure agency.
• A deity is able to do anything that it chooses to do.
• A deity is able to do anything that is in accord with its own nature (thus, for instance, if it is a logical consequence of a deity's nature that what it speaks is truth, then it is not able to lie).
• Hold that it is part of a deity's nature to be consistent and that it would be inconsistent for said deity to go against its own laws unless there was a reason to do so.
• A deity is able to do anything that corresponds with its omniscience and therefore with its worldplan.

Say it again, maybe it will be true this time. It seems you have selected merely the definition of omnipotence that completely eliminates choice. That's an interesting choice to make. Bravo. I suppose this proves your point, eh?

 

[PolyHedral]

I'm not using any definition of omnipotent in that statement; I'm using the definition of contradiction. No true statement implies a contradiction, because if it does, it must be discarded.

 

[Sir Doom]

I'm not using any definition of omnipotent in that statement; I'm using the definition of contradiction. No true statement implies a contradiction, because if it does, it must be discarded.

The statement is literally defining omnipotence.

By the way, the statement you just made defied its own rules.

 

[waitasec]

what do you call an omnipotent being that can ignore logic?

this question is impossible

omnipotence cannot include ignorance

 

[Koldo]

In a roundabout sort of way.

Hmm....thank you?

When you state it like this, it is a logical contradiction, yes. Of course, that's only when you state it like you have. It's been 'programmed' to attack pathogens and defend the body. That's not a contradiction at all. And since that's ACTUALLY what's happening, it's probably better to say that.

Great. Think the same way about what you called a 'contradiction' in the other post and i have no contentions to make.

I wonder how it accomplishes that. I hope it doesn't simply obey my commands. That would be a real problem for your argument.

This isn't a problem to my argument. Your commands are a result of your nature and nurture.

Then I fail to see the relevance of our existence within a structured, predictable, universe. How does this, in any way remove choice?

I missed you here. How does 'what' remove choice?
Also, by choice, do you mean it like in libertarian free will?

No. This is absolutely not a choice by the robot. This is a choice by you. You've made a number-20-picking machine. There are no other options for the robot, and it does not even realize it is fulfilling your choice. It sees no difference between picking 10 and picking 20 beyond the fact that you've eliminated 10 as an option with your setting so it can't pick it. It's not really 'picking' at all. You've picked.

Do you mean that whoever sets the criteria is the one making the choices?
You may think of it this way, which would just mean we also don't make choices because we couldn't possibly be on control of what our initial criteria were.

So you are admitting that I am in control of both my nature and my nurture? As opposed to the other way around?

I admit you are the combination of your nature and nurture. Therefore, the answer to your first question is: yes. Your nature and nurture is on control of your nature and nurture, at least partially. However, the answer to your second question is: no. It also works the other way around : 'Your nature and nurture is on control of your nature and nurture', as it is the same sentence.

 

[Sir Doom]

this question is impossible

omnipotence cannot include ignorance

Not according to some, but since I am of the opinion that you are correct. Allow me to clarify my question.

What do you call an omnipotent being that is not bound by logical rules?

Is that better?