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Romeo and Juliet is Terribly Misunderstood by Popular Perception

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
So, leading from an off-topic discussion in another thread, I believe that the common perception of Romeo and Juliet is completely wrong.

The story is commonly regarded as a highly romantic story, with the love that these two people share for each other being the absolute epitome of love itself.

I find that this perception is highly inaccurate to the actual play's content, and possibly even to what Shakespeare was trying to say. It's often forgotten that the two leads are teenagers, roughly 15-16 years of age. That means, because of raging, unfamiliar hormones combined with a complete lack of proper education and training at that time to control them, they're probably not thinking very rationally, but rather almost solely based on their emotional desires.

Their "love", furthermore, when compared to the components necessary for a good, solid relationship, turns out to be severely lacking. They never really "talk" to each other, and so have no idea what common interests they share, what the other person is truly like, and whether they could commit to a lifelong relationship. Sure, they kill themselves when life tries to pull them apart, but that's not as special as one would think: living a full lifetime in a single committed relationship is far harder, far more rewarding, and far more indicative of what might be called "True Love", than suicide because of being disallowed one's desire.

In truth, their "love" turns out to not be love at all. It's extreme obsession, to the point that it got both of them killed.

Now, I don't mean to say that Romeo and Juliet is overrated. I don't particularly "like" it, myself (I prefer Shakespeare's comedies, particularly A Midsummer Night's Dream), but it does have a ton of layers to it, no less than others. I just think that the common conception is mistaken; it's not an example of True Love, or anything like that. There are other stories, before and since, that are far better "love stories". This misconception leads it to be studied improperly in school, which could be a big reason why it's so loathed by kids.

That's a big reason why I think it's important to properly understand the story, and work to undue the damage it's caused. I don't think Shakespeare would say that, in the grand scheme of things, their relationship was ultimately bad (after all, "Doth with their death bury their parents' strife."), but I don't think he would have thought of it as an "ideal romance", either.
 

Fireside_Hindu

Jai Lakshmi Maa
A agree with this.

I was always mystified by people who used it as the go-to example of true love in literature. Really? Two teenagers meet, become obsessed and then "marry" within a week. We don't call that love. We call that crazy. I think this below summarizes my feelings ( NSFW - some swearing for those who care)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwnFE_NpMsE

:camp:
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I totally disagree. Shakespeare intended to underline how beautiful romantic love is.
Do you believe in romantic love? I do. I think I fell in love more than thirty times in my life, and I'm still 28. It was always love at first sight, the most romantic thing ever

By the way, if you don't believe that romance exists, it is obvious that you consider Romeo and Juliet two negative characters.
It's beauty what makes you fall in love with a person. I don't understand why people are afraid of accepting that we seek beauty in a person. And actually, only beautiful people deserve to be in a relationship.
As for Agape, that is, spiritual love, both the ugly and the pretty deserve to be loved.

Shakespeare's goal in his works is very clear: he condemns violence and hatred, which destroy love. He just wants to prove that rivalry and hatred prevented two beautiful pure lovers from being happy for the rest of their lives.
It's a love versus hatred battle. Won by hatred, unfortunately
 
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bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
So, leading from an off-topic discussion in another thread, I believe that the common perception of Romeo and Juliet is completely wrong.

The story is commonly regarded as a highly romantic story, with the love that these two people share for each other being the absolute epitome of love itself.

I find that this perception is highly inaccurate to the actual play's content, and possibly even to what Shakespeare was trying to say. It's often forgotten that the two leads are teenagers, roughly 15-16 years of age. That means, because of raging, unfamiliar hormones combined with a complete lack of proper education and training at that time to control them, they're probably not thinking very rationally, but rather almost solely based on their emotional desires.

Their "love", furthermore, when compared to the components necessary for a good, solid relationship, turns out to be severely lacking. They never really "talk" to each other, and so have no idea what common interests they share, what the other person is truly like, and whether they could commit to a lifelong relationship. Sure, they kill themselves when life tries to pull them apart, but that's not as special as one would think: living a full lifetime in a single committed relationship is far harder, far more rewarding, and far more indicative of what might be called "True Love", than suicide because of being disallowed one's desire.

In truth, their "love" turns out to not be love at all. It's extreme obsession, to the point that it got both of them killed.

Now, I don't mean to say that Romeo and Juliet is overrated. I don't particularly "like" it, myself (I prefer Shakespeare's comedies, particularly A Midsummer Night's Dream), but it does have a ton of layers to it, no less than others. I just think that the common conception is mistaken; it's not an example of True Love, or anything like that. There are other stories, before and since, that are far better "love stories". This misconception leads it to be studied improperly in school, which could be a big reason why it's so loathed by kids.

That's a big reason why I think it's important to properly understand the story, and work to undue the damage it's caused. I don't think Shakespeare would say that, in the grand scheme of things, their relationship was ultimately bad (after all, "Doth with their death bury their parents' strife."), but I don't think he would have thought of it as an "ideal romance", either.

In my school it was never taught as true love but a tragedy of young impetuous love. It typically loathed by kids because of the words shakespeare uses are not common place today and take extra work to understand. So we have to read and translate it not many schools kids like extra work.

Later remakes like West side story and Romeo loves Juliet romanticize it for the general public because it sells better and that's what the average person knows because most of them never actually read the book in High School
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Two teens meet and within a few days they commit suicide for each other? That's not love. That's hormones and insane idealism.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
A quick search reveals that Juliet was 13 going on 14, while at least one source suggests that Romeo was somewhat older than 16. Its a small point, but I would think that someone who felt himself justified in essentially claiming that we all got it wrong would have a better command of such things
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Misunderstood? If so, it is a misunderstanding that enabled a beautiful ballet ...

Haven't seen it, but misunderstandings can sometimes improve a story, or inspire beautiful interpretations.

The "original" version of the Princess and the Frog story involved the (prepubescent) princess throwing the frog against the wall, causing him to turn into the prince. The whitewashed, common misconception version involves her kissing the frog.

In this instance, I actually prefer the common misconception to the original. (After all, speaking about "true love"...)

Then again, that one's a folk tale, not an established story. Could very well be that the original involves her kissing the frog, and the Grimm brothers heard a less common version, maybe even a parody version, in their studies. Either way, the nature of folk tales is that the "original" version is long lost to time, and so the "true" version is simply whichever one is most commonly "told" among the "folk".

And where do we learn the the two are roughly 15-16? (Someone's over-reaching.)

A quick search reveals that Juliet was 13 going on 14, while at least one source suggests that Romeo was somewhat older than 16. Its a small point, but I would think that someone who felt himself justified in essentially claiming that we all got it wrong would have a better command of such things

I was mostly just guestimating the number based on what I did know, because while I do have a fairly descent grasp on the overall story and plot, it's been a while since I've actually seen any version of it, so I don't know if fine details like that are explicit or not. (I'm actually a big believer in the idea that Shakespeare's plays are not meant to be read, but actually seen.)

But to be fair, I did say roughly, with the primary point being that they're teenagers, not adults. While teenagers are certainly capable of making smart, informed choices, the two characters presented to us are highly emotional in their behavior, moreso than they are rational.

However, because I presented an actual range of numbers, even with the prefix "roughly", you are correct that I should have had the foresight to double-check to see if those numbers weren't actually defined somewhere, either directly in the text or hidden between the words. Sure, a small point, not directly relevant to my argument, but the small point does reveal that I should refamiliarize myself with the story. Luckily, there's plenty of resources (the '60s film, sparknotes, articles, etc).

Flexing those analysis muscles can only make me a better Bard, after all. (...no, not Bard as in Shakespeare's common nickname in that I'm comparing myself to him, as no comparison of small things to big things comes to mind that could adequately illustrate my Bardic smallness compared to his greatness; just Bard in the sense that I am a Bard; storyteller. In training, anyway.) And as they say, the devil is in the details.
 
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columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I fell in love more than thirty times in my life, and I'm still 28. It was always love at first sight, the most romantic thing ever
...
It's beauty what makes you fall in love with a person. I don't understand why people are afraid of accepting that we seek beauty in a person. And actually, only beautiful people deserve to be in a relationship.
As for Agape, that is, spiritual love, both the ugly and the pretty deserve to be loved.

Dude, tenting your pants is not love.

Tom
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I totally disagree. Shakespeare intended to underline how beautiful romantic love is.
Do you believe in romantic love? I do. I think I fell in love more than thirty times in my life, and I'm still 28. It was always love at first sight, the most romantic thing ever

By the way, if you don't believe that romance exists, it is obvious that you consider Romeo and Juliet two negative characters.
It's beauty what makes you fall in love with a person. I don't understand why people are afraid of accepting that we seek beauty in a person. And actually, only beautiful people deserve to be in a relationship.
As for Agape, that is, spiritual love, both the ugly and the pretty deserve to be loved.

Shakespeare's goal in his works is very clear: he condemns violence and hatred, which destroy love. He just wants to prove that rivalry and hatred prevented two beautiful pure lovers from being happy for the rest of their lives.
It's a love versus hatred battle. Won by hatred, unfortunately

Doth with their death, bury their parents' strife, dude. Their deaths caused the two families to stop fighting.

Shakespeare obviously loves a good romance, as evidenced by his sex-romp comedies. A Midsummer Night's Dream is my favorite Shakespeare play (largely because both my High School and my Junior College drama clubs put on two very different yet equally fantastic performances of them. ... to bad that talent wasn't present when the same Junior College put on a TERRIBLE performance of Richard III :facepalm:), and believe you me: I absolutely believe in romance.

I just don't believe that Romeo and Juliet is a good representation of how a healthy romantic relationship works. You're 28 and have fallen in love almost 30 times? I'm 26, and have fallen in love twice: once in high school (never talked to her, mind), and then in my second semester of college. The second time was RF fellow Super-Moderator Moonwater. We're still together after 7-and-a-half years, working very hard to keep potential problems from arising in the future, and addressing the ones that do exist before they become too great. I think I know a thing or two about how a healthy romantic relationship should work, and I don't see it in this story.

On one hand, their deaths caused the families to stop fighting. On the other hand, they still died. A more carefully thought-out relationship, built upon stronger foundations of mutual interest, devotion, problem solving, etc. could have ended that strife without either of them having to die. Thing is, neither character demonstrates the ability to consider these things. Instead, they run almost purely on their emotions, which is never a good idea. There is also no indication that they would have been happy for the rest of their lives, and every indication that Romeo would have quickly abandoned Juliet for some new girl. After all, remember how quickly he forgot about his ex, over whom he equally obsessed over.

Furthermore, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you think of as beautiful won't be the same as what another person does. While I can't judge how attractive a man is, I can say that I've seen many women who are physically unattractive to me hold down strong relationships for long periods of time. Clearly other people find them absolutely gorgeous.

Oh, and that nonsensical notion that only beautiful people deserve to be in a relationship? Well, since beauty is subjectively determined and not an objective state, that means everyone deserves to be in a relationship.
 
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Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I'll go with this pending informed opinions to the contrary.

My opinion is informed, thank you very much. Or do you believe in some kind of binary state, where someone is either 100% fully informed on a subject, or absolutely, 100% uninformed on a subject?

When I say I "haven't seen it", I mean I haven't seen the ballet, because I'm not interested in that genre of performance, and theater tickets are too expensive for me to go see things I'm not interested in.

But I've seen both the fantastic '60s movie, and that atrocious '90s movie. I've also been exposed to the story on numerous occasions, having studied it in high school, and with my dad when he was going through a Shakespeare phase. I've talked extensively about it with my friends, one of whom is more informed than me, being a speed-reading geek about these things, and her opinion is the same as mine, last I checked.

Besides, going with the "opinion" of a website that's supposed to be opinion-free doesn't sound like a terribly good idea.
 
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