Rush Limbaugh Believes the Poor Don't Deserve Healthcare

[Guitar's Cry]

Yes it kind of reminds me of Scrouge in the Christmas Carol, "are there not poor houses, are there not prisons"........ Insurance companies do not seem to be in the business of helping people out. I have heard so many horror stories of people who have paid into insurance for years and then been told when something happens, there is some reason why they aren't eligible. In fact, just the other day a 77 year old man we know was refused car insurance from the insurance company he had dealt with for years. The reason "you haven't had an accident for too long and you are statistically due to have one so we won't insure you any longer". Now in my mind, that should be illegal. He has to get insurance somewhere else now. Boggles the mind what they get away with.

I do realize that they need to be prudent or they wouldn't be able to help when there is a claim, but there is too much bogus stuff going on that just is not in the insured's best interests.

I like your Scrooge analogy! It fits well, since it effectively suggests the dehumanization that giving one's soul over to capital will bring about.

That's the scary part of privatized healthcare; it's a for-profit outfit that puts the dollar before the human. It's not about helping folks afford healthcare, it's about making a profit.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The poor have medicaid. It is a single payer system. They do not pay a deductible. They do not get a medical bill. They don't pay insurance premiums. In a nut shell, the poor have the best health care of all of us.

 

[Alceste]

Take a look at the links in posted in my last reply to TheAmazingLoser. The NHS in Great Britain refuse to give painkillers to patients suffering in agony. Babies are born in hallways because of a shortage of rooms. And Canadians are coming to our terrible and inhumane country for healthcare.

Point of fact: while it may be that a handful of wealthy Canadians pop down south of the border for first class health care that comes with tea and cakes in the waiting room, it is also true that a handful of Americans who can not afford health care at home pop north of the border for access to perfectly adequate, tea-and-cake-less health care in our numerous free clinics.

But what are anecdotes? The fact remains well over 80 % of Canadians are happy with their health care, while 62 % of Americans want a universal health care system (like ours), and 52 % are dissatisfied.

Nobody in their right mind, inside your country or out, wants a health system like America's. Those who argue for private health care are either insurance salesmen or rich gits who feel entitled to be treated like the Queen of England when they go in for a rectal exam.

 

[Reverend Rick]

That's the scary part of privatized health care; it's a for-profit outfit that puts the dollar before the human. It's not about helping folks afford health care, it's about making a profit.

I would hate to see how many people would go to college and internship for 20 years racking up a million in student loans and working 18 hour days if there was not a huge home, a pretty wife and a lavish lifestyle awaiting them.

 

[T-Dawg]

I would hate to see how many people would go to college and internship for 20 years racking up a million in student loans and working 18 hour days if there was not a huge home, a pretty wife and a lavish lifestyle awaiting them.

Er, I don't see what you're getting at... how does going to college for 20 years (which, by the way, is ridiculously long - I thought even doctors only took 8 years?), and racking up a million in student loans (by the way, 20 year would be WAY over a million... factoring in the rising costs of college, 4 year is already half a million), have to do with the poor not being able to obtain healthcare?

 

[xkatz]

The poor have medicaid. It is a single payer system. They do not pay a deductible. They do not get a medical bill. They don't pay insurance premiums. In a nut shell, the poor have the best health care of all of us.

Too bad most poor people don't qualify for it.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I would hate to see how many people would go to college and internship for 20 years racking up a million in student loans and working 18 hour days if there was not a huge home, a pretty wife and a lavish lifestyle awaiting them.

I did.

Though I do have the pretty girl.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The poor have medicaid. It is a single payer system. They do not pay a deductible. They do not get a medical bill. They don't pay insurance premiums. In a nut shell, the poor have the best health care of all of us.

Reverend Rick this would be an excellent point, if it were true. But it is not true. Here are the facts which I have posted multiple times now, at least once directly to you. Please read this carefully:

"For example, a parent in a family of three working full-time at the minimum wage could not qualify for Medicaid in 29 states in 2007.44"

"Medicaid covers some parents and low-income individuals with disabilities, but most adults without dependent children—regardless of how poor—are ineligible for Medicaid. As a result, over 40% of poor parents and adults without children are uninsured (Figure 19)."

"The near-poor (those with incomes between 100% and 199% of the poverty level) also run a high risk of being uninsured (29%), in part, because they are less likely to be eligible for Medicaid. "
​

This is from the 2008 Kaiser Foundation report The Uninsured: A Primer: Key Facts about Americans without Health Insurance. The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation | Search

 

[Magic Man]

I would hate to see how many people would go to college and internship for 20 years racking up a million in student loans and working 18 hour days if there was not a huge home, a pretty wife and a lavish lifestyle awaiting them.

First, what the hell does a pretty wife have to do with anything? You can't get a pretty wife without going to college for 20 years? And does that mean that women who go to college also want a pretty wife? Not only is that a stupid part of the comment, it's sexist as well.

Second, who goes to college for 20 years? Last I checked doctors go for about 8 total, and that's about the highest you need. A million dollars is not a small exaggeration, and 18-hour days is a bit much, too.

Third, why do you assume everyone wants a huge home and lavish lifestyle? You're projecting.

Now, the worst part about this post from you? It has absolutely nothing to do with anything here, especially not the quote it was supposed to be responding to.

EDIT: Oh, and, by the way, I went to college for 8 years (on and off), racked up a whopping $12,000 in debt and I never wanted a huge home or lavish lifestyle. I did get the pretty wife anyway, but I'm happy with our small home for now (until we have a couple of kids, hopefully), and I'll always be happy with our modest lifestyle.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Sunstone,

What I don't understand is who cares what Rush Limbaugh thinks? Rush Limbaugh has no power over you; he can't raise your taxes or take away your insurance. Who cares if he did believe that poor people don't deserve healthcare. How would that affect you at all?

Your attention seems to be misplaced.

I'm going out on a limb here but I am pretty sure you support government run healthcare. And since that is the case let's see what governments believe their citizens deserve in terms of healthcare.

Patients forced to live in agony after NHS refuses to pay for painkilling injections - Telegraph

Great Britain has government run healthcare and I guess the government believes that those with chronic back pain don't deserve painkilling injections. Is this compassionate? Is this how socialized healthcare works? I believe this is a bit more important than what Rush Limbaugh has to say.

Canadians visit U.S. to get health care | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

Canada has government run healthcare and yet Canada's government doesn't believe that some of its sick citizens should get healthcare. Only after appealing the rejection did the Canadian government pay for healthcare for some of its citizens, but they went to Detroit. They had to go to Detroit because the procedures that were needed were not covered in Canada's government run healthcare system. If government run healthcare is so compassionate, the why are some people not deserving of some medical procedures?

Death Drugs Cause Uproar in Oregon - ABC News

The Oregon Health Plan would only cover drugs to put Barbara Wagner to death, not the drugs that would keep her alive. I guess according to Oregon's government Barbara did not deserve life saving drugs. But I am sure you are right and we should focus on the comments of a radio talk show host.

The babies born in hospital corridors: Bed shortage forces 4,000 mothers to give birth in lifts, offices and hospital toilets | Mail Online

Back to Great Britain. Apparently, some expecting mothers don't deserve hospital rooms to deliver their babies. But is Rush saying?

Sentenced to death on the NHS - Telegraph

Once again in Great Britain, terminal ill patients are being put to death. I guess they didn't deserve to live any longer.

Premature baby 'left to die' by doctors after mother gives birth just two days before 22-week care limit | Mail Online

It looks like a lot of people in socialized healthcare UK don't deserve medical care even premature babies.

Now that we got that out of the way, what is talk radio saying?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Hi Sunstone,

What I don't understand is who cares what Rush Limbaugh thinks? Rush Limbaugh has no power over you; he can't raise your taxes or take away your insurance. Who cares if he did believe that poor people don't deserve healthcare. How would that affect you at all?

Your attention seems to be misplaced.

I'm going out on a limb here but I am pretty sure you support government run healthcare. And since that is the case let's see what governments believe their citizens deserve in terms of healthcare.

Patients forced to live in agony after NHS refuses to pay for painkilling injections - Telegraph

Great Britain has government run healthcare and I guess the government believes that those with chronic back pain don't deserve painkilling injections. Is this compassionate? Is this how socialized healthcare works? I believe this is a bit more important than what Rush Limbaugh has to say.
......

I find this absolutely fascinating. I was almost about to agree with you, that the influence of talk radio pales in comparison to other issues; then you provided an incredibly educational example of the effects of exposure to talk radio; or at least, the diffusive effects of conservative propaganda in our culture. (Am I mistaken in my suspicion that you listen to talk radio?) For example, you cited a British tabloid, The Daily Mail, as if it was a serious source of information. Then you cite a conservative British paper, the Daily Telegraph, quoting its misleading and sensational title without the subtitle and following article:

Tens of thousands with chronic back pain will be forced to live in agony after a decision to slash the number of painkilling injections issued on the NHS, doctors have warned.

​

Oh. So tens of thousands are not necessarily forced to live in agony... but it is worried this will be the outcome of a new policy. How will this happen? According to the article, it will happen because the British NHS will do exactly what conservatives in America would want it to do, and exactly what the private insurers do now: cut back on public insurance, cut back on spending, cut back on taxes. What are the feared consequences? According to the conservative paper:

Specialists fear tens of thousands of people, mainly the elderly and frail, will be left to suffer excruciating levels of pain or pay as much as £500 each for private treatment.
​

Oh. So tens of thousands of people won't actually be "forced" to live in agony per se, they'll just be forced to pay out of their own pocket for their healthcare. And conservatives are against that, as we all know. Conservatives want the government to pay for it.

In other words, the worry is that conservative advice will be followed and Britain will become more like the U.S., with its natural free-market consequences: government spending will be reduced so that taxes need not be raised, and people will have to pay from their own pocket the high cost of private treatment or suffer the health consequences. If the elderly and frail don't like paying the high prices from their own pocket, they should either work harder and earn more dough, or shop around and be smarter consumers. This is precisely the kind of system American conservatives support. This is an ironic victory for the forces of free market discipline and it's astonishing to see how conservative propaganda can flip this reality on its head. It really speaks to either the disingenuousness, or utter incoherence, of the conservative minority today. I haven't decided which.

If you want to talk about Britain's healthcare system (which is of course very different from the actual proposals for the U.S. reform) you may be interested in the following which I posted elsewhere. Although I am being facetious in what follows, the facts are true:

Britain's government Death Panels keep disabled waiting longer, less efficient than than America's private insurance Death Panels
​

The private insurance company Guardian deemed its reported 2008 profit margin of 4.2% too slim, and hired private investigators to look for any reason to drop customers with muscular dystrophy, multiple sclerosis, brain injury, and paralysis. When this strategy failed, Guardian's Death Panels-- which referred to its disabled customers as "dogs" and "trainwrecks" in internal memos released by court order --launched its "Moving Forward" campaign to drop their coverage anyway. Ian Pearl, a man born with muscular dystrophy who became ventillator-dependent in 1991, and requires constant nursing care to keep him alive, writes that for him this is a death sentence. The private insurance Death Panels will drop his coverage effective December 1, 2009 -- a mere 18 years after Pearl became dependent on full-time nursing care.

Meanwhile, British physicist Stephen Hawking continues to wait for his government-issued execution orders. Like Pearl, Hawking was born with muscular dystrophy. But in Britain, the government-run Death Panels are slow and inefficient by American standards, and long death sentence wait times are common. Hawking has been waiting for Death Panel review for nearly 24 years since he became dependent on full-time nursing care for survival.

Referring to the British National Health System (NHS), Hawking blamed government ineptitude for the delay. "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," he said. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."
​

Now that we got that out of the way, what is talk radio saying?

To be honest, I'm wondering how much of your post was lifted from talk radio. By all means, dispel my doubts.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Unfortunately the federal government has made it illegal for someone to purchase health insurance across state lines.

By the way would you mind please answering my question about this? Which federal law prohibits this? Why is it that the first thing Aetna asks is for you to choose your state when purchasing health insurance on their website? Need Help Choosing?

Why does the Blue Cross Blue Shield website have a listing for nearly every state under their "Plan Finder"? Plan Finder

Looks like both Aetna and Blue Cross offer plans to people living in many states. So how are they not competing across state lines?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Er, I don't see what you're getting at... how does going to college for 20 years (which, by the way, is ridiculously long - I thought even doctors only took 8 years?), and racking up a million in student loans (by the way, 20 year would be WAY over a million... factoring in the rising costs of college, 4 year is already half a million), have to do with the poor not being able to obtain health care?

OK, perhaps it may take 8 years to get a doctorate, but you completely ignored internship. I'm talking about being a heart surgeon. Oh by the way, you would have to have a super computer for a brain to have a PHD in 8 years. Yes it is possible, but here in the real world, it's not that easy for most.

My financial numbers may be low. I'm going by what a doctor friend told me. He is in his 40's so I'm sure it is more now.

I guess I will spell it out for you, the whole point is for everyone to have health care, it will have to be cheaper for us to afford it.

That means doctors will be paid less and that means less people will pursue careers in the medical field.

Do the math yourself, less people becoming doctors means worse health care for everyone.

It will be like public school. Everyone gets a free education and for the most part, teachers are under paid so the best teachers leave to find a better job.

Most public schools suck at educating folks and socialised medicine will not have the quality of care that we are being provided now.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Too bad most poor people don't qualify for it.

I think your definition of poor and mine is different.

 

[Magic Man]

Hi Sunstone,

What I don't understand is who cares what Rush Limbaugh thinks? Rush Limbaugh has no power over you; he can't raise your taxes or take away your insurance. Who cares if he did believe that poor people don't deserve healthcare. How would that affect you at all?

Unfortunately, millions of people care what he thinks. That's the problem. No, Limbaugh himself doesn't have much power over me, but he influences a large group of Americans who believe and agree with everything he says. So, when he says things like this, it basically means that millions of Americans are going to believe things like this, which only makes it harder to do what needs to be done, as has been evidenced by the long, drawn-out battle over health care.

Your attention seems to be misplaced.

Now that we got that out of the way, what is talk radio saying?

As for the rest of this, what you're forgetting is that we understand that not every system is perfect. We know that whatever system we use is going to have problems, and that we need to minimize them. For every example you gave here of problems with other countries' systems, I can give you 3 from America. For instance, you mention Canadians and others coming to America for treatment. You need to realize that a bunch of Americans are going to other countries like Mexico for medical coverage. Basically, you need to do a little more research.

That's the problem. You hear about a few cases of problems with a different system, and assume that system is crap and useless. It's no different than your whole Oher, social care ideas. You need to realize that, whatever problems you can find with the Canadian system of the British system or wherever, the U.S. has even worse problems, like not having 10% of its population covered at all.

 

[Magic Man]

OK, perhaps it may take 8 years to get a doctorate, but you completely ignored internship. I'm talking about being a heart surgeon. Oh by the way, you would have to have a super computer for a brain to have a PHD in 8 years. Yes it is possible, but here in the real world, it's not that easy for most.

OK, so another 5 years for an internship. That brings the total up to 13 years. Still a very far cry from 20 years. And that's assuming a ridiculously long internship.

Why would you need a super computer for a brain? People get PHDs in eight years all the time. And those who don't, generally do it in 9-10 years. It's still nowhere close to your 20-year estimation.

My financial numbers may be low. I'm going by what a doctor friend told me. He is in his 40's so I'm sure it is more now.

As in, your million-dollar number is low? Good luck proving that, although you're off to a good start with "Well, that's what my friend said". How about some real numbers?

Harvard medical school estimates that the cost of tuition and all other expenses (room, food, travel, books, transportation, etc.) for a first-year student is $66,600. Let's round that off to $70,000. That means over 4 years, they pay $280,000. That's still a lot of money, but it's not even in the same realm of reality as a million dollars.

That's really high for medical school, too. You can easily go somewhere for half that amount. You can check out more numbers here, if you want.Of course, that obviously doesn't take into account the undergraduate degree, but then you can add another $150,000 for that.

So, you want to try this again?

I guess I will spell it out for you, the whole point is for everyone to have health care, it will have to be cheaper for us to afford it.

That means doctors will be paid less and that means less people will pursue careers in the medical field.

Do the math yourself, less people becoming doctors means worse health care for everyone.

Why would less people pursue careers in the medical field? It's not like a doctor would go from making $250,000 a year to $100,000. If they lost any money, it would be more like going from $250,000 to $200,000, maybe, or going from $125,000 to $105,000. I'm guessing that drop-off isn't going to scare many people off.

So, I'm doing the math, but I'm not sure why less people would be becoming doctors.

It will be like public school. Everyone gets a free education and for the most part, teachers are under paid so the best teachers leave to find a better job.

Most public schools suck at educating folks and socialised medicine will not have the quality of care that we are being provided now.

Nice try, but not quite. It's not like the government would take over and say "No, we're not paying you $5,000 for that operation. We'll pay you $800." That's ridiculous. Doctors will still be paid very well.

I'm not even sure where you're getting the idea that they will have to make less for it to work. If we went with universal healthcare, we could save a lot of extra costs we're paying now. There wouldn't be much difference at all in the level of salary.

 

[Magic Man]

I think your definition of poor and mine is different.

So, you wouldn't consider a person making minimum wage supporting 3 kids poor? If you wouldn't, then our definitions of poor are very different. But either way, that person should qualify for medicaid.

 

[Alceste]

I'm not even sure where you're getting the idea that they will have to make less for it to work. If we went with universal healthcare, we could save a lot of extra costs we're paying now. There wouldn't be much difference at all in the level of salary.

Good point - following from Mr Spinkles' post, the instant savings would be almost 5 %, since an insurance "profit margin" will no longer be required. Then doing away with the administrative costs of all those competing insurance companies and hospitals will deliver massive further savings before anyone even starts looking at doctors' wages.

Anyway, it's ridiculuos to argue that universal coverage would be as expensive as the American system. NOBODY pays what you guys pay. Not even close. We pay half. HALF! And we cover everybody.

 

[linwood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpx-hG1uaiA&feature=player_embedded

Do you agree or disagree with Limbaugh over whether the poor deserve access to health care? Why or why not?

He has a minor point if you can see from his point of view long enough without feeling dirty.Why is health care any different than any other product/service you can purchase if rich enough?
However we can afford health care for our people so I see it as a social enhancement that will obviously further us in many ways not directly connected with health care.

Do you think Limbaugh is telling the truth that he is concerned with making America the best society that it can be? Why or why not?

I don`t know if he honestly believes himself or not but anyone who states that achieving national health care is "going backwards" is either horribly wrong or horribly dishonest .

 

[Magic Man]

He has a minor point if you can see from his point of view long enough without feeling dirty.Why is health care any different than any other product/service you can purchase if rich enough?

It's different for the same reason police and fire departments are different, and all other services that are "socialized". They aren't "houses on the beach". They are necessities that everyone is entitled to.