Russia May Have Just Given Ukraine Terms for Ending War

[Copernicus]

I give you a practical example.
If the American CIA decides to invade Russia via Estonia, in 5 seconds or less, the Tallinn institutions will warn the EU institutions, since Estonia is in the EU, besides being a NATO country.

A practical example of what? What are you trying to show me with this utterly preposterous idea? That Estonia would be upset if a foreign power tried to launch an invasion into Russia from their territory? Well, duh! They only belong to NATO as insurance against an invasion coming from the other direction. Like what happened to Ukraine.

That is why when Ukraine joins the EU...the warmongers who desire to invade Russia will have to abandon their plans.

Yes, indeed. All those warmongers who want to invade Russia. Bad news for them.

 

[Estro Felino]

A practical example of what? What are you trying to show me with this utterly preposterous idea? That Estonia would be upset if a foreign power tried to launch an invasion into Russia from their territory? Well, duh! They only belong to NATO as insurance against an invasion coming from the other direction. Like what happened to Ukraine.




Yes, indeed. All those war mongers who want to invade Russia. Bad news for them.

The story that in the United States they are all immaculate saints who would never try to conquer Russia is as credible as unicorns.

And I don't believe in unicorns.

 

[Copernicus]

The story that in the United States they are all immaculate saints who would never try to conquer Russia is as credible as unicorns.

And I don't believe in unicorns.

The story that in the United States they are all unspeakable demons who want to conquer Russia is also as credible as unicorns, to put it in words you can understand. I find the existence of unicorns more credible than some of these ideas you seem to harbor of US desires and intentions.

 

[Estro Felino]

The story that in the United States they are all unspeakable demons who want to conquer Russia is also as credible as unicorns, to put it in words you can understand. I find the existence of unicorns more credible than some of these ideas you seem to harbor of US desires and intentions.

It's the American Deep State who cross the Ocean to Europe.
It's not the other way around.

 

[Copernicus]

It's the Americans who cross the Ocean to Europe.
It's not the other way around.

Do you mean that all those colonists and tourists found a land bridge to get here?

 

[Sargonski]

What you call "revisionist history" is actually well-documented mainstream history, but I haven't seen any evidence from you that you understand Russian or Ukrainian history. Your concept of history seems to be grounded in what you've picked up from acquaintances and on social media.

Like a Troll from Olgino, you keep bringing up the false "Nazi" pretense that pro-Kremlin apologists like to dote on, ignoring the (again--documented) history of neo-Nazi groups inside of Russia and also in connection with Putin himself. See, for example, and especially that nice picture of a "Nashi" rally with pro-Putin t-shirts

What a sad state of affairs Brother Copper - .. calling your Teacher a "Troll from Olgino" -- with no understanding of History .. except for the Stuff you want to Cancel from history ..

"Well Documented mainstream History" - is what you can't seem to figure out." You say .. (without giving any relevant history) just naked claims and name calling. What part of "Azov Nazi"' .. did you not understand Friend ? have you not figured out as soon as you heard Azov Nazi your Prog Blue implant was triggered and you cried out "Russian Troll Farm" " Pro Kremlin Apologist" as if these Nazi's do not exist .. and had not been persecuting the Ethnic Russians .. the Well Documented History that you wish to Cancel.

but -- the one's you are calling "Russian Troll Farm" - "Pro Kremlin Apologist" is Congress .. as it is Congress who .. who recognized the existence of the Azov Nazi's - and sanctioned this group for their bad behavior .. no funding .. same Status as Al Qaeda .. lower actually as over the last decade gave tons and tons of funcing to Al Qaeda .. but thats different lie you bought into .. lets stick to this one .. The Azov Nazi Lie .. and related propaganda pablum.

You realize the in order for something to be propaganda .. there needs to be a lie - falsehood - misrepresentation .. I thought not but ..

I did not use that expression or say anything like it about the US Congress. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.
This is delusional stuff. I never said anything like this. Where are you getting it from?

Indeed you did cry out " Russian Troll Farm" " Pro Kremlin Apologist" the standard Blue "Russia Russia" demonization trope fallacy .. being triggered .. how you are programed to respond .. Just like Tulsi Gabbard .. the left triggered by her anti-war position .. just like you .. calling her a "Pro Kremlin Apologist"

and who is the delusional one .. you were Triggered by "Azov Nazi" pretending they don't exist ..such that anyone mentioning the term is automatically "Russian Troll Farm " Pro Kremlin Apologist" "Troll from Algino" - the fact that Congress are one of the "anyone" mentioning that term .. acknowledge the existence of the Azov Nazi .. and dirty deeds attached to them .. something that is requisite to earn sanctions.

So it is Congress who you are calling "Russian Troll Farm" "Pro Kremlin Apologist" .. u understand 1+1=2 ? Oh .. sorry If a=b and b=c then A=C !

Its Congress who is saying what you call "Kremlin Propanda" - straight out of the "Russian Troll Farm" -- and on this basis .. someone is definately spouting some delusional stuff .. but it wasn't me who put that delusion in your mouth .. did that all by yourself ... your backwards - upside down false history. ..

Im sorry -- "The Truth" is not propaganda .. and the Truth .. is that the Azov Nazi is real .. and your belief that they do not exist in any significant measure .. is the delusion .. the lie .. the propaganda .. that the State Propaganda machine has been selling .. that you ingested.

Here is one of your Boys .. Stephan Bandara would have been proud -- Tell us the History Copper .. your boy Bandera .. knight in shining armor .. comming to your emotional rescue. .. this should be fun .. can't wait for this History lesson Teach.

Canadian officials who met with Ukrainian unit linked to neo-Nazis feared exposure by news media: documents

A year before the meeting, a Joint Task Force Ukraine briefing on the Azov Battalion acknowledged its links to Nazi ideology.

ottawacitizen.com

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[Copernicus]

I see no point in continuing to try to have a discussion with you, Sargonski.

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you mean that all those colonists and tourists found a land bridge to get here?

I mean the American Deep State who goes to Ukraine to decide the politics of that country.

 

[Copernicus]

I mean the American Deep State who goes to Ukraine to decide the politics of that country.

In the US government, there is no American Deep State, which is a goofy conspiracy theory dreamed up by right wing ideologues in the US. You can look the history of it up with the link I've provided, but I am under no illusion that you are willing to look at evidence that contradicts what you want to believe. Nor is there any evidence that the US, and not Ukrainians themselves, are deciding the politics of their country, which is under daily attack on its people and infrastructure from a foreign invader. However, I think you are more interested in looking at sources of information that confirm your biases than checking the facts from news sources that contradict them.

 

[Estro Felino]

In the US government, there is no American Deep State, which is a goofy conspiracy theory dreamed up by right wing ideologues in the US. You can look the history of it up with the link I've provided, but I am under no illusion that you are willing to look at evidence that contradicts what you want to believe. Nor is there any evidence that the US, and not Ukrainians themselves, are deciding the politics of their country, which is under daily attack on its people and infrastructure from a foreign invader. However, I think you are more interested in looking at sources of information that confirm your biases than checking the facts from news sources that contradict them.

So the US doesn't have any intelligence services?
Or secret services?

 

[Copernicus]

So the US doesn't have any intelligence services?
Or secret services?

All countries have them, even Italy. The fact that the US has intelligence agencies doesn't mean that they behave in the outrageously cartoonish way that you think they do.

 

[We Never Know]

In the US government, there is no American Deep State, which is a goofy conspiracy theory dreamed up by right wing ideologues in the US. You can look the history of it up with the link I've provided, but I am under no illusion that you are willing to look at evidence that contradicts what you want to believe. Nor is there any evidence that the US, and not Ukrainians themselves, are deciding the politics of their country, which is under daily attack on its people and infrastructure from a foreign invader. However, I think you are more interested in looking at sources of information that confirm your biases than checking the facts from news sources that contradict them.

Of course. We don't meddle in our own politics or the politics of any other country. But wait.. We do.

 

[Estro Felino]

All countries have them, even Italy. The fact that the US has intelligence agencies doesn't mean that they behave in the outrageously cartoonish way that you think they do.

It's called Deep State.
And it comes to Europe to bring war and not peace solutions.

 

[Copernicus]

Of course. We don't meddle in our own politics or the politics of any other country. But wait.. We do.

The fact that the US government and politicians try to influence domestic and foreign policies in no way supports the Deep State conspiracy theory. One could argue that there is now a Republican Deep State consisting of people in the US government that were put in place by Donald Trump. This is just nutty paranoia based on a trope that was popular with pro-Erdogan partisans in Turkey. It got picked up as a meme that is bouncing around in right wing echo chambers.

 

[Ponder This]

Whom shall I believe?
The US intelligence?

Because there are rumors...rumors that say that the US is behind this proxy war because they want to invade Russia and conquer it.
After dismembering the country, seizing its resources.

And the only way they could do it was to provoke Putin, by ordering the new Kiev government to target the Donbas population, so that Russians would have supported them militarily.
So that Russia would have appeared the perpetrator in the eyes of the world.

Whom shall I believe?

You have to decide for yourself who to believe.
But I don't recommend believing either U.S. intelligence or the rumor mill.

As a plan to invade and conquer Russia... it is one of the worst thought out and executed plans ever...
The U.S. was slow to support Ukraine. Months passed while U.S. generals predicted that Russia would conquer all of Ukraine in a matter of days. And the U.S. hasn't been the top supporter of Ukraine, slow walking its aid while other countries have given more. As a plan to conquer Russia, it is pathetic.

But, hey, you believe what you want to believe. I won't say it's totally farfetched with someone like Biden as President of the U.S., but it's still crazy.

As for the new Kyiv government targetting the Donbas... after Zelensky took office, fighting against separatists in Donbas actually diminished and there was movement towards peace including an agreement to exchange all remaining prisoners of war! After Covid hit (everywhere was tough, including the Donbas), Russia took the opportunity to amass its military on the border. It's on you if you believe that Ukraine was trying to target the Donbas instead of believing that Russia intended to conquer all of Ukraine and invented an excuse.

I notice you have no rebuttal to my basic point about Sweden and Finland wanting to join NATO now that Russia has attempted total conquest of Ukraine. It's because it's obvious that Russia is conquesting territory: Georgia, Crimea, and now Donbas; and no one wants to be next on Russia's acquisition list. Who would Russia not invade? Russia's request that Ukraine not join NATO gives Russia more time to assimulate the Donbas and then continue the invasion of Ukraine later, at Russia's leisure.