Russia threatens to turn Kyiv into a "giant melted spot"

[Stevicus]

Exactly appeasement led to the second world war.
Countries stood back and let it happen.
The USA did not even join in till they were attacked half way through.
Russia will continue attacking countries until they are stopped.
Their invasion of Ukraine is just testing the water, none of the countries on their borders are safe from attack.

I don't think this situation is comparable to the Second World War. There was no alliance like NATO back then, and whatever alliances or agreements might have existed were for the sake of temporary convenience, mainly between countries acting in their own selfish interests, not as part of an international coalition. The League of Nations had no real power, just as the UN is impotent now.

However, NATO is not impotent, and Russia knows full well that if they attack any NATO country, they'll be facing the full force of the entire alliance, of which three members are nuclear armed. So, even if Russia does attack a NATO country, we really don't have much to worry about. NATO will demolish them.

 

[Revoltingest]

There's an old trope in professional wrestling regarding "table spots", in which a wrestler performs a move that puts the other wrestler through - of course - a table. The trope is that the wrestler who sets up the table (implying that they are going to be the one to put their opponent through it) is almost invariably the wrestler that ends up getting put through the table.

I believe what we're looking at here is a geopolitical case of Russia "setting up the spot", and then being put through the table.

Pro wrestlers are smarter though.
They planned the outcome with safety in mind.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't think this situation is comparable to the Second World War. There was no alliance like NATO back then, and whatever alliances or agreements might have existed were for the sake of temporary convenience, mainly between countries acting in their own selfish interests, not as part of an international coalition. The League of Nations had no real power, just as the UN is impotent now.

However, NATO is not impotent, and Russia knows full well that if they attack any NATO country, they'll be facing the full force of the entire alliance, of which three members are nuclear armed. So, even if Russia does attack a NATO country, we really don't have much to worry about. NATO will demolish them.

However I prefer that Ukraine becomes a EU member...before becoming a NATO member.
The NATO is a corrupt warmongering, warlike, war-loving organization, while the treaties of the EU make war something to repudiate.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I don't think this situation is comparable to the Second World War. There was no alliance like NATO back then, and whatever alliances or agreements might have existed were for the sake of temporary convenience, mainly between countries acting in their own selfish interests, not as part of an international coalition. The League of Nations had no real power, just as the UN is impotent now.

However, NATO is not impotent, and Russia knows full well that if they attack any NATO country, they'll be facing the full force of the entire alliance, of which three members are nuclear armed. So, even if Russia does attack a NATO country, we really don't have much to worry about. NATO will demolish them.

There were many alliances leading up to the Second world war. That is exactly why England immediately entered the war when Poland was invaded.
We have no idea if the USA would hold to it's treaty agreements if Trump is elected. Nor does Russia.
They declared themselves neutral when Germany started WW2.

 

[We Never Know]

I hope and expect that President Biden has quietly let the warmonger Russians know that turning Kyiv into a "giant melted spot" would be met by the US declaring that it's the equivalent of Russia directly attacking us (Poland etc) and that we would of course turn Moscow into a "giant melted spot" in return.

We wouldn't do it.

 

[Regiomontanus]

This is what bullies do especially governments run by bullies. I hope and expect that President Biden has quietly let the warmonger Russians know that turning Kyiv into a "giant melted spot" would be met by the US declaring that it's the equivalent of Russia directly attacking us (Poland etc) and that we would of course turn Moscow into a "giant melted spot" in return.

Russia’s Medvedev threatens to turn Kyiv into ‘giant melted spot’​

Moscow on Saturday threatened to reduce Kyiv to a "giant melted spot" if Ukraine is allowed by its allies to use Western long-range missiles to strike targets deep inside Russia.​

​

The threat by Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of Russia’s Security Council, came as the U.S. and the U.K. are deliberating giving Kyiv permission to use Western weapons to attack strategic targets farther into Russian territory.​

​

Medvedev, who likes to rattle nuclear sabers, said the Kremlin already has "formal" grounds to use nuclear weapons after Ukraine's cross-border incursion into Russia's Kursk region, but could instead utilize newer technologies to create a "giant melted spot" on the site of the Ukrainian capital.​

Biden keeps letting Ukraine use our weapons deeper and deeper in to Russia. We are essentially in a proxy war now. So, if our (American) weapons start threatening the state, of course they will use (tactical) nukes. JUST AS WE WOULD.

Where is a Mahatma when we need one (Zelensky is a big part of the problem).

In my opinion.

 

[Revoltingest]

Biden keeps letting Ukraine use our weapons deeper and deeper in to Russia. We are essentially in a proxy war now. So, if our (American) weapons start threatening the state, of course they will use (tactical) nukes. JUST AS WE WOULD.

That's a lot of speculation.
It seems to justify Russia's escalating the war.
Is that your intent?

Where is a Mahatma when we need one (Zelensky is a big part of the problem).

Do you believe Putin is part of the problem too?

 

[Regiomontanus]

That's a lot of speculation.
It seems to justify Russia's escalating the war.
Is that your intent?

Do you believe Putin is part of the problem too?

I think it is, clearly, Uncle Sam who is escalating things.

Putin is certainly the main problem.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think it is, clearly, Uncle Sam whois escalating things.

By providing Ukraine with materiel to defend against Putin's invasion?
That's like claiming that a woman who fights off a rapist is "escalating things".

Putin is certainly a big part of the problem.

No kidding.

 

[Regiomontanus]

By providing Ukraine with materiel to defend against Putin's invasion?
That's like claiming that a woman who fights off a rapist is "escalating things".

We have no reason to be there. I am surprised that you seem to be advocating for America to be the world's police force. Ukraine, up until a few decades ago (as you know), was a Soviet republic. Not a member of NATO. Part of the Russian motherland. So yeah, I think it morally wrong to risk nuclear war over Ukraine. And on top of everything else, Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries on earth and so I am not a fan of just flushing our money down the toilet on a war Ukraine can't win.

 

[Revoltingest]

We have no reason to be there.

No, it's that you deny the reasons, eg, providing
disincentive for Putin to continue his violent
conquest into NATO countries, which USA is
obligated to defend.

I am surprised that you seem to be advocating for America to be the world's police force.

Not at all.
I'm willing to let countries brutalize their own people.
I'm willing to let to countries war with each other,
provided USA isn't put at risk.

Ukraine, up until a few decades ago (as you know), was a Soviet republic. Not a member of NATO. Part of the Russian motherland. So yeah, I think it morally wrong to risk nuclear war over Ukraine.

You must face the fact that there are risks to all
alternatives, eg, helping in Ukraine's defense, letting
Putin invade & conquer neighbors. It's about
comparing & weighing the risks....not focusing
solely upon one side.

And on top of everything else, Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries on earth and so I am not a fan of just flushing our money down the toilet on a war Ukraine can't win.

Ukraine's defense is a bargain compared to US
foreign adventurism in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq,
& Afghanistan. US is spending billions of dollars
on materiel....not trillions, & not USA lives.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Biden keeps letting Ukraine use our weapons deeper and deeper in to Russia. We are essentially in a proxy war now. So, if our (American) weapons start threatening the state, of course they will use (tactical) nukes. JUST AS WE WOULD.

Where is a Mahatma when we need one (Zelensky is a big part of the problem).

In my opinion.

I would hope that our leaders would fight back, like Zelensky, if we were attacked by Russia.

 

[Regiomontanus]

I would hope that our leaders would fight back, like Zelensky, if we were attacked by Russia.

I appreciate your point of view. But as a Christian - and so pacifist- I disagree.

 

[Stevicus]

There were many alliances leading up to the Second world war.

As I said, there were temporary alliances of convenience, but every country was pretty much out for itself.

That is exactly why England immediately entered the war when Poland was invaded.

Well, no, the British made a guarantee to Poland in case of a German attack, at which point they declared war on Germany. But it was hardly any kind of "alliance," since they didn't defend Poland from the USSR (neither in 1939 nor 1944-45).

We have no idea if the USA would hold to it's treaty agreements if Trump is elected. Nor does Russia.

I don't know. But even without the USA, NATO would be more than strong enough to defeat Russia, if it ever came to that.

They declared themselves neutral when Germany started WW2.

They probably thought that France and Britain were strong enough to defeat Germany on their own. They did rule the two most powerful empires in the world, while Germany was just a second-rate upstart. US involvement should never have been needed at all. France and Britain had Germany outnumbered and outgunned - and had greater access to vital resources than Germany could have hoped for. It's not America's fault that they blew such a huge advantage.

 

[Father Heathen]

I would hope that our leaders would fight back, like Zelensky, if we were attacked by Russia.

A good leader defends the lives, land, and liberty of their people. Why people develop a taste for the taint of tyrants, terrorists, and war criminals is beyond me.

 

[Father Heathen]

I appreciate your point of view. But as a Christian - and so pacifist- I disagree.

Do you rebuke women who ward off rapists with pepper spray?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is what bullies do especially governments run by bullies. I hope and expect that President Biden has quietly let the warmonger Russians know that turning Kyiv into a "giant melted spot" would be met by the US declaring that it's the equivalent of Russia directly attacking us (Poland etc) and that we would of course turn Moscow into a "giant melted spot" in return.

Russia’s Medvedev threatens to turn Kyiv into ‘giant melted spot’​

Moscow on Saturday threatened to reduce Kyiv to a "giant melted spot" if Ukraine is allowed by its allies to use Western long-range missiles to strike targets deep inside Russia.​

​

The threat by Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of Russia’s Security Council, came as the U.S. and the U.K. are deliberating giving Kyiv permission to use Western weapons to attack strategic targets farther into Russian territory.​

​

Medvedev, who likes to rattle nuclear sabers, said the Kremlin already has "formal" grounds to use nuclear weapons after Ukraine's cross-border incursion into Russia's Kursk region, but could instead utilize newer technologies to create a "giant melted spot" on the site of the Ukrainian capital.​

Putin's military is in shambles. Just as it was with the Cold War, it won't happen. If Putin does get desperate enough to actually pursue that that rest of the room won't be suicidal and better minds will prevail.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

As I said, there were temporary alliances of convenience, but every country was pretty much out for itself.



Well, no, the British made a guarantee to Poland in case of a German attack, at which point they declared war on Germany. But it was hardly any kind of "alliance," since they didn't defend Poland from the USSR (neither in 1939 nor 1944-45).



I don't know. But even without the USA, NATO would be more than str

ong enough to defeat Russia, if it ever came to that.



They probably thought that France and Britain were strong enough to defeat Germany on their own. They did rule the two most powerful empires in the world, while Germany was just a second-rate upstart. US involvement should never have been needed at all. France and Britain had Germany outnumbered and outgunned - and had greater access to vital resources than Germany could have hoped for. It's not America's fault that they blew such a huge advantage.

Nonsense, France and The UK were totally out classed and unprepared. Dunkirk proved that. And France capitulated in a few weeks.
However the UK and the commonwealth kept fighting. And invasion was out of the question, as we neither had the arms nor the manpower, however after we won in north Africa. And the USA joined the fight against Italy. We then built up the resources leading to D day.
By then we had won the battle of the Atlantic and had gained air superiority. The rest is history.

As to POLAND we never had the option to come directly to their aid had we wanted to or not.

The German U Boat fleet was never fully defeated but surrendered at the end of the war..

 

[Stevicus]

Nonsense, France and The UK were totally out classed and unprepared. Dunkirk proved that. And France capitulated in a few weeks.

They had better tanks, bigger navies, and more men in the field. But they had poor, incompetent leadership. They wasted their chances to end the war quickly. Instead, they sat on their hands and waited for the Germans to attack them. That's their own fault, and no one else's.

However the UK and the commonwealth kept fighting. And invasion was out of the question, as we neither had the arms nor the manpower, however after we won in north Africa. And the USA joined the fight against Italy. We then built up the resources leading to D day.
By then we had won the battle of the Atlantic and had gained air superiority. The rest is history.

As to POLAND we never had the option to come directly to their aid had we wanted to or not.

The German U Boat fleet was never fully defeated but surrendered at the end of the war..

The best way they could have aided Poland was by attacking Germany from the west, in September 1939, when the bulk of German forces were still in Poland. If they were unable or unwilling to do that, that was on them.

But this is all in the context of your suggestion that US declaration of neutrality in WW2 would be repeated in the current situation. You're as much as saying that the US would abandon NATO if Russia attacks.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

They had better tanks, bigger navies, and more men in the field. But they had poor, incompetent leadership. They wasted their chances to end the war quickly. Instead, they sat on their hands and waited for the Germans to attack them. That's their own fault, and no one else's.



The best way they could have aided Poland was by attacking Germany from the west, in September 1939, when the bulk of German forces were still in Poland. If they were unable or unwilling to do that, that was on them.

But this is all in the context of your suggestion that US declaration of neutrality in WW2 would be repeated in the current situation. You're as much as saying that the US would abandon NATO if Russia attacks.

I would expect the USA to hold back and probably not join at all if Trump is in charge.
If Harris is in charge it could be a different story.. but the European forces are tiny in comparison to Russia's and would probably be overrun very quickly. They have very small stockpiles of ammunition of all kinds. the USA now has very few forces in Europe, it has been pulling out for years.

The Germans never had many forces in Poland until the Russians attacked. The polish Air force personnel retreated to the uk and were the most successful unit in the battle of britain.Their main defence force consisted of mounted cavalry which was obliterated in the first Panza attack.