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Russia vs Ukraine gets closer to nuclear?

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I agree not good reason. There is no justify for war, even racist.
Right. So why did you bring up and exaggerate a Ukrainian law when I asked you a specific yes/no question about whether or not Ukraine should be allowed to seek aid, as if the notion that Ukraine would enact this law means they don't have that right?

Probably yes.
So you believe that Ukraine should not be allowed to to seek the assistance of the USA if they are invaded by Russia?

Why should USA always involved in European business always?
Because it's in their geopolitical interest, and Russia constantly invades and meddles with Europe.

Especially with the wrong guy "Russia"!
See above. Russia keeps invading, annexing and antagonizing its neighbours, and the USA sees it as an opportunity to curry favour in eastern Europe by assisting the nations they bully and invade.

West and Russia should sit on table, and deal for justice peace.
They have been trying. Russia are the ones who have repeatedly refused peace terms, even when given assurances that Ukraine would not receive NATO membership. Despite all arrangements, peace treaties and international law, Russia invaded Ukraine. The ball is in Russia's court.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Then you have no grasp of reality..
What??
I see two major powers .. Russia and US.
The US has military bases all over the globe .. Russia does not.
Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union until it collapsed, and Gorbachov agreed to Ukraine's independence,
with the West assuring it would not become part of NATO.
..and we all know that there was escalating war on Ukraine's eastern borders, between pro-Russian
and pro-Western Ukrainians.

Because that power INVADED THEM..
Mmm .. that is the West's story "an unprovoked attack".

Because that would mean an all-out war between the USA and Russia, obviously.
..well, giving more than 250 billion dollars in weapons and aid does not?

They're not. Ukraine are resisting of their own will because they do not want to be invaded and conquered, and the idea that they are somehow being forced or tricked into defending themselves is an insult to them that you should be ashamed for implying.
No nation wants to be "invaded or conquered" .. but that's what is happening, whoever wins!
They will remain poor .. probably more poor if the West wins .. I don't see the western financial institutions bailing them out.
They would have been better off remaining neutral.

No, you don't. You'd rather eastern Europe died and was subsumed into Russia..
That's an absurd notion .. if Russia gets their way with Ukraine, I don't believe they are interested
in conquering EU nations just for the sake of it. I don't even believe they are interested in
conquering Ukraine, other than the pro-Russian parts..

..you don't know the first thing about it and you have nothing to say other than "America bad".
My problem is with uncontrolled Capitalism .. not all Americans(US) agree with that.
It is uncontrolled Capitalism that has paralysed the political institutions.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Russia said parts of Ukraine was belong to Russia, they spoke russian language, ukraines abused them. Restrictions russian language.

Russia says a lot of things. Many of them pure lies.
Newsflash: the kremlin is infested with corrupt liars.

Ukraine/ Russian conflict is complicated.

It's not that complicated, actually.

I believe USA fought proxy in Ukraine and other places.

There were/are millions of victims because this proxy wars.
I believe you drown in Russian kool-aid
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
..which is exactly what Russia is doing.

:facepalm:

Arguing with the people who have swallowed up the russian propaganda, is like trying to teach evolution to creationists who have swallowed the religious fundamentalism.

Utterly futile.

People pretend to care about human beings, but "the enemy" is only collateral damage.

Tell it to Putin who's targets consists of energy infrastructure, hospitals, nurseries, schools, train stations, etc.

You think it's horrible when Israel does it, but it's ok when Putin does it.

You don't like Putin .. you don't like Russia .. too bad ..

I have no problem with Russia.
I have a problem with dictators who think "might makes right" and with corrupt oligarchs.
I have a problem with authoritarians who think they can blackmail the world.

You want to see the EU to continually expand, with the backing of NATO. Unlikely!
I don't care one bit about that.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
What??
I see two major powers .. Russia and US.
The US has military bases all over the globe .. Russia does not.
Ah yes, and that's literally all that matters. It's not like Russia have been invading and annexing territory on their borders for decades. No, Russia is completely peaceful.

Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union until it collapsed, and Gorbachov agreed to Ukraine's independence,
And, importantly, Ukraine voted overwhelmingly in favour of independence, and USA, UK and Russia all agreed to respect and defend that independence.

with the West assuring it would not become part of NATO.
Nope. No such assurance was ever made a condition of any official agreement or treaty.

I wish people would stop trying to push this falsehood.

..and we all know that there was escalating war on Ukraine's eastern borders, between pro-Russian
and pro-Western Ukrainians.
You mean the war initiated by Russian-backed separatists?

Mmm .. that is the West's story "an unprovoked attack".
You want to suggest Ukraine provoked an invasion? Delusional.

..well, giving more than 250 billion dollars in weapons and aid does not?
Not as directly as putting troops on the ground, no. You don't understand that?

No nation wants to be "invaded or conquered" .. but that's what is happening, whoever wins!
They will remain poor .. probably more poor if the West wins .. I don't see the western financial institutions bailing them out.
They would have been better off remaining neutral.
They. Were. Invaded.

How exactly does a country "remain neutral" when THEY ARE INVADED AND MEDDLED WITH FOR DECADES.

Again, you blame Ukraine for having the audacity and stupidity to NOT WANT TO BE INVADED BY RUSSIA.

That's an absurd notion .. if Russia gets their way with Ukraine, I don't believe they are interested
in conquering EU nations just for the sake of it. I don't even believe they are interested in
conquering Ukraine, other than the pro-Russian parts..
Irrelevant. They are not entitled to any part of Ukraine. Countries are not entitled to do what they want by annexing territory on their borders through military force. And how is it absurd to suggest and country that constantly invaded and annexes other countries wouldn't continue to annex and invade other countries, exactly?

My problem is with uncontrolled Capitalism .. not all Americans(US) agree with that.
It is uncontrolled Capitalism that has paralysed the political institutions.
Stick to Ukraine.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
They have been trying. Russia are the ones who have repeatedly refused peace terms..
Absolute nonsense!
The same excuse for the destruction of civilians and infrastructure was given by Israel.
It's a total lie.

Israel thinks that they can use "mass terror" to frighten their enemies into submission, with diplomatic
cover from the West.
That is not diplomacy .. that is bullying. :rolleyes:

..even when given assurances that Ukraine would not receive NATO membership. Despite all arrangements, peace treaties and international law, Russia invaded Ukraine.
I don't believe that .. but while there are cruise missiles flying around, neither side appears
serious in diplomacy.
What does the West want? Zelensky has recently changed his demands .. he now demands
joining NATO as a condition for peace, with diplomatic talks about the eastern oblasts.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union until it collapsed, and Gorbachov agreed to Ukraine's independence,
with the West assuring it would not become part of NATO.

Show me the signed treaty that says this.

..and we all know that there was escalating war on Ukraine's eastern borders, between pro-Russian
and pro-Western Ukrainians.

Actually, the pro-russian "ukrainians" actually consist primarily of russians who are funded, armed and lead by Russia. These pro-russians then started an armed revolt, lead by Russians, and started seizing towns and government buildings. Ukraine then, rightfully, deployed the army to fight this armed insurrection - as any country would.

Mmm .. that is the West's story "an unprovoked attack".

To the extent that it was a "provoked" attack, it was entirely, 100% provoked and orchestrated by the Kremlin.

They would have been better off remaining neutral.

Here's the problem.... there is no "neutral" there.
The "neutral" the likes of you and others here propose, in actuality would be "ruled by a russian muppet" and completely losing their sovereignty.
But in any case, whatever it may be, that decision ultimately rests with Ukrainians.


That's an absurd notion .. if Russia gets their way with Ukraine, I don't believe they are interested
in conquering EU nations just for the sake of it. I don't even believe they are interested in
conquering Ukraine, other than the pro-Russian parts..

Then you were not paying attention when this so-called "special military operation" started.
The goal was to take the entire country in 3 weeks.
The ONLY reason why they now pretend to only focus on the eastern parts, is to save face so that they don't have to admit that the "great and mighty" russian army completely failed to take anything else.

Remember how they attacked from all sides, including from the north through Belarus, marching towards Kiev? They were repelled in rather humiliating ways.
 

BrightShadow

Active Member
Name calling is not helping.
That I did not do.
Then why did some bunghole pastor recently say

What is that word? :handpointup: Is it not name calling?:eek:
Similarly you called Trump by many names in many posts. I am not searching for them to show you but in this very post you use a vulgar slang against pastors who may be wrong in what they do but shouldn't be compared with any holes.



Amd as it is not unusual for an abortion to be necessary to preserve the health, fertility and even life of someone with a hard pregnancy they need to be legal and subject to medical privacy laws.


Doctors are the judges. And judges should be allowed to make the calls (case by case though).

If you leave it up to the 'hosts' (the women) - then many would not make the right decision for the unborn.
And if you continue on that path and allow many to make the wrong decision - then you will have widespread chaos.
It will spread like a disease.


There is no golden rule that could apply to every scenario. When you make a rule - there is always someone who will think that the 'rule' is unfair in her circumstance.

Buying liquor when you are under 21 years old is illegal. There are many 20 year old responsible adults, who could say - the law is unfair for them. But the law had to make it illegal to purchase at some stage. It is saving many other 20 years old folks from destroying their lives and others with them.
If they are allowed to buy liquor freely at any age - you would see many more death and destruction. Many more car accidents etc.,


So, the same law that could hurt some - could also benefit many (born or unborn).
And vice versa!
The same law you are seeking could benefit some but could hurt many more.;)


Anytime someone is wrongly effected by a law - that is a loss. Religious teachings and those who make law from it by using it as a basis - do not ignore that fact.
God told us about right path and we have to pay attention to it. The path is usually good for the majority.;)

God did not specify - Susan is responsible and there is one law for her and thus she is allowed to do a certain act.
God did not specify - Jennifer is not allowed because a different law applies to her because she is irresponsible.

Godly rules are not personal. It is general rules. It is not incident specific. So, we have to make the best of it and follow what aligns with what is given to us. It may not be perfect for everyone. But it cannot be ignored either.



Yes, they have taken it as a sign of possession and making a pact with the devil. Left handedness, moles and birthmarks have even been death sentences.


Not anymore!
Not religion talking! If this is true then these Pastors are going overboard with their limited knowledge.:rolleyes:

Their culture or background maybe responsible;
Their personal superstitions maybe responsible;
Their ignorance maybe responsible;
But not the religion (in most cases especially because many don't know how to understand their doctrines).


Then why did some bunghole pastor recently say autism is demonic possession? Garbage like that is more common than you realize, with some dismissing all mental illness as demonic possession.


I would call out to those Pastors and say the following to them...

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!"

While certain major religions do mention demonic presence. Yet it also say that - their path is not meant to cross with our path (different realms in general). However in certain circumstances - it could (rare though).
Since it is not meant to be - there are no documented and proven evidence of their presence. So, the Pastors should not try to paint all mental illnesses and unexplainable medical conditions with the same brush and call it "demonic possessions". That is ignorance talking!

All liquids are not water! Oil is oil, water is water!

Being against the actions of a state is not being against the people of the state. And do not Israel is hardly only Jews living there.

Israel is a Jewish country. Israel's constitution defines itself as a Jewish democratic state. It was created in 1948 as a homeland for the Jewish people. So, it is a Jewish state in every which way.

At least 74% of its population is Jewish. The official language is Hebrew.

You cannot erase the history how it was created and suddenly try to separate the Jewish elements from the equation and say there are others living there. So, when you talk about Israel - the Jews take offense and turn the argument into something it is not. It is not an argument against their religion.

Their religion has good roots and good teachings but the regime of Israel is horrible. They show no regards for human lives.
In the name of 'defense' - they try to exterminate an entire population of people (including innocent women and children) from another religious background. :rolleyes:

A one day's barbaric attack is met with systematic months and months of annihilation by bombing and killing. It is incomparable and totally incomprehensible. They have turned their military force into a killing machine and worst part is - they think they are doing it in the name of 'defense'. So they think they are on the right side of things. They are NOT!

When the retaliatory attacks are wiping out the entire enemy with innocent men, women and children - you are NOT doing the right thing.

When you talk against this regime (Bibi & co.) - their supporters find a way to call it "antisemitism".:rolleyes:
They use the past incident (holocausts) and then try to implicate folks are out there to get them again. They are using it as a free sympathy pass quite effectively for years.


Ukraine is defending themselves,

And dying in the process with no chance of accomplishing their goal. At this point - most of them are fighting because of peer pressure.
Ordinary citizens (farmers, carpenters, plumbers) won't care whether they are under one oligarchy type ruling or another because in reality - they are all dictators. One side do it as a compact group - while they fake they have a democracy and the other side has a single powerful mouthpiece.

So, ordinary citizens won't care because their lives would be equally effected by either side. It won't be whatever they are promised. It is not worth for them to die for either result.

Ukraine's govt is corrupt! Do your own research - "Corruption in Ukraine".;)
They will remain corrupt.

For the majority of people - peace is better than death.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Absolute nonsense!
The same excuse for the destruction of civilians and infrastructure was given by Israel.
It's a total lie.
No, it is not. I have provided sources from news sites around the world to this effect, you're welcome to look for it.

You are the one currently arguing on the side of those bombing and killing civilians right now, not me.

Israel thinks that they can use "mass terror" to frighten their enemies into submission, with diplomatic
cover from the West.
That is not diplomacy .. that is bullying. :rolleyes:
Whereas INVADING A COUNTRY is perfectly reasonable diplomatic strategy.

Stop pretending you care about diplomacy when you are arguing in favour of imperialist aggression, every bit as much as anyone who supports Israel's war crimes. You blame Ukraine for their own invasion with the exact same (arguably worse) logic than those who blame Gazan civilians for their own mass slaughter.

I don't believe that .. but while there are cruise missiles flying around, neither side appears
serious in diplomacy.
You are far from an expert on international diplomacy.

What does the West want? Zelensky has recently changed his demands .. he now demands
joining NATO as a condition for peace, with diplomatic talks about the eastern oblasts.
Gee, I wonder why a country being invaded by Russia could ever possibly want to join a defensive treaty with other nations that would defend them against invasion by Russia.

It's one of the greatest mysteries of our time.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
You want to suggest Ukraine provoked an invasion?
Yes .. a pro-Russian govt. was overthrown, whether populist or not.
..and from Russia's point of view, the pro-Russian population in the east were oppressed
from 2014 onwards.
The west, naturally, supported the overthrowing, promising EU, NATO etc.
How exactly does a country "remain neutral" when THEY ARE INVADED AND MEDLED WITH FOR DECADES.
A good question!
The British still act as if they are the historical British Empire .. oh yeah, NATO. :expressionless:
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Remember how they attacked from all sides, including from the north through Belarus, marching towards Kiev? They were repelled in rather humiliating ways.
Yes, I do .. and I strongly condemned it at the time, as I only had one half of the story
(from western media)
Yes, they were repelled.

..and so it goes on, almost 3 years later .. it has become "the West" v Russia .. and they have
many fronts, not just Ukraine.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Russia says a lot of things. Many of them pure lies.
Newsflash: the kremlin is infested with corrupt liars.
Does the West alway said the truth?


It's not that complicated, actually.
The Cremea wants join to Russia, and other places.
If they don't want Russia, sure they would resist.


I believe you drown in Russian kool-aid
No, i am neutral, but i understand the Russia position.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
What is that word? :handpointup: Is it not name calling?:eek:
Similarly you called Trump by many names in many posts. I am not searching for them to show you but in this very post you use a vulgar slang against pastors who may be wrong in what they do but shouldn't be compared with any holes.
I didn't do name calling in those post yoi referenced. I callled Putin a dictator and Trump a fascist. Both terms are correct.
And the pastor is calling me and some friends demon possessed so I'll call him what I want.
As for Trump, he is a fascist and a traitor. He deserves scorn and content.
And guess what? I live in my own little corner of the world. I don't sway or influence public policy. I'm just an angry ***** who'd rather be left alone. I don't have to be as responsible with my words as someone, like, say, the President of the United States of America ideally does.
If you leave it up to the 'hosts' (the women) - then many would not make the right decision for the unborn.
And if you continue on that path and allow many to make the wrong decision - then you will have widespread chaos.
It will spread like a disease.
Except that hasn't been the case. And even if 100% of all pregnancies ended with abortion so what? It bothers you none and our species dying out would be a net benefit to all other life on Earth. Amd its not like a ton of pregnancies aren't already naturally being aborted anyways. Why don't you cry for them and try to decrease that instead of making medical decisions for others if you're so concerned about it?
Buying liquor when you are under 21 years old is illegal. There are many 20 year old responsible adults, who could say - the law is unfair for them. But the law had to make it illegal to purchase at some stage. It is saving many other 20 years old folks from destroying their lives and others with them.
If they are allowed to buy liquor freely at any age - you would see many more death and destruction. Many more car accidents etc.,
Actually there is no real reason for it to be 21. That's just an arbitrary age they felt is appropriate. And indeed the age is lower in many countries.
So, the same law that could hurt some - could also benefit many (born or unborn).
And vice versa!
The same law you are seeking could benefit some but could hurt many more.;)
The unborn aren't getting hurt anymore than plucking your hair, especially as the bulk majority of abortions are done early, with late term abortions almost always being due to emegency needs to preserve the life of the mother.
Anytime someone is wrongly effected by a law - that is a loss. Religious teachings and those who make law from it by using it as a basis - do not ignore that fact.
They do it regularly, such as when it comes to gay marriage.
Not anymore!
Not religion talking! If this is true then these Pastors are going overboard with their limited knowledge.:rolleyes:
It is religion talking. It's just religion you don't agree with.
Their culture or background maybe responsible;
Their personal superstitions maybe responsible;
Their ignorance maybe responsible;
But not the religion (in most cases especially because many don't know how to understand their doctrines).
It's that book they call Holy.
I would call out to those Pastors and say the following to them...

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!"

While certain major religions do mention demonic presence. Yet it also say that - their path is not meant to cross with our path (different realms in general). However in certain circumstances - it could (rare though).
Since it is not meant to be - there are no documented and proven evidence of their presence. So, the Pastors should not try to paint all mental illnesses and unexplainable medical conditions with the same brush and call it "demonic possessions". That is ignorance talking!

All liquids are not water! Oil is oil, water is water!
That's just an endless debate of Christians pointing fingers at eachother and denouncing one another as false Christians. At least now, especially in the West, it would be very unusual for yall to kill eachother over it.
Israel is a Jewish country.
Netanyahu and the Zionists wish it were, but to declare it Jewish is to ignore the chunk of non-Jews who live there.
Israel's constitution defines itself as a Jewish democratic state. It was created in 1948 as a homeland for the Jewish people. So, it is a Jewish state in every which way.
Yes, and unfairly so to those who aren't Jewish, especially the ones there before then.
but the regime of Israel is horrible. They show no regards for human lives.
In the name of 'defense' - they try to exterminate an entire population of people (including innocent women and children) from another religious background. :rolleyes:
This ae agree on. Netanyahu's regime is nasty.
And dying in the process with no chance of accomplishing their goal. At this point - most of them are fighting because of peer pressure.
Ordinary citizens (farmers, carpenters, plumbers) won't care whether they are under one oligarchy type ruling or another because in reality - they are all dictators. One side do it as a compact group - while they fake they have a democracy and the other side has a single powerful mouthpiece.
Peer pressure? No chance of accomplishment? Pick up a history book. There will be no shortage of examples of people fighting fierce, long wars against an invader, with many succeeding against far worse odds than what Ukraine has. Alred the Great (a sickly man) even lost his kingdom to the Vikings and reemergednl from utter and total defeat and from swamp lands to reclaim it and set things up for a unified England while carving out the course of history for latter Medieval England into the beginning of their Monarchy.
So, ordinary citizens won't care because their lives would be equally effected by either side. It won't be whatever they are promised. It is not worth for them to die for either result.
That is not true. Putin is a dictator who imprisons and kills his opposition. His reign is authorian, terribly strict amd you can't even protest.
Ukraine's govt is corrupt! Do your own research - "Corruption in Ukraine".;)
They will remain corrupt.
Yeah, except for those reforms for EU membership.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Yes .. a pro-Russian govt. was overthrown, whether populist or not.
So, to be clear, you think a government being overthrown after killing dozens of their own citizens is provocation for Russia to invade?

Then it's pretty obvious that Russia always intended to invade, since they're the ones who backed the slaughter of Ukrainian protesters and sent agents to do that very thing. If you genuinely believe this was Ukraine "provoking" Russia, then you must believe it was really Russia provoking Russia.

..and from Russia's point of view, the pro-Russian population in the east were oppressed
from 2014 onwards.
This is a false narrative. There never was any oppression; there were Russian-backed separatists that attempted to seize the Donbas immediately after Euromaidan.

The west, naturally, supported the overthrowing, promising EU, NATO etc.
Of course. Why wouldn't they?

A good question!
The British still act as if they are the historical British Empire .. oh yeah, NATO. :expressionless:
So you're just going to pretend that "remaining neutral" is a perfectly reasonable thing to expect Ukraine to do, despite the fact that they repeatedly made concessions to Russia in order to ensure border integrity and Russia still manipulated their politics, made a puppet of their government, killed their citizens when they protested, supported separatists to seize Ukrainian territory, and eventually invaded Ukraine when Ukraine was considering joining NATO to protect themselves against any further Russian military force?

Seriously?
 
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