Russia vs Ukraine gets closer to nuclear?

[Koldo]

Ukraine's government supports the Azov Brigade.

When it comes down to fighting separatists and russians. Not when it comes down to persecution.

 

[Koldo]

This is purile nonsense .. denial of your previous position .. and strawman fallacy .. I explained to you some of the role of the Azov Nazi's how they were integrated into the regular army .. your claim this Militia group was not "State Sponsored" a ridiculous denial of the obvious. .. and now by your own words.. They acted as para -military - civil policing.

Your claim that Ukraine never supported "neo Nazism" is ridiculous nonsense .. as they brought the Azov Nazi into the Military - Para - military.. thanks for proving your own claim false.

You then claim there was no persecution of Ethnic Russians by the Azov Nazi Para-Military Terrorist Groups .. but fail to tell us who then these Azov Nazi's were Persecuting ? in a massive fit of disingenuous oblivion and denial .. as Congress is the one who told us the Azov Nazi's were persecuting people.

How about you address the "Evidence" given .. instead of running around crying "evidence evidence" like you have naught been given. Who were the Azov Nazi Terrorists terrorizing ? Dorp ! Eerp !?

and your claim that the Azov Nazi's were not "State Sponsored" is ridiculously false by your own words .. stating that they were use by the Gov't as Para Military .. falsifying your claim that the Gov't did not support Neo Nazi groups.

What is so hard about understanding there is a massive difference between having neo nazi individuals fighting in your army and supporting neo nazi ideology? Supporting the Azov Brigade to fight in your favor, particularly when this is essential to protect your territory, does NOT automatically entail supporting persecution.

By your rationale then, Russia also supports neo nazism since the Russian Imperial Movement and the Rusich have been fighting for Russia.

Is this how you view this war? As a fight between two neo nazi groups?

 

[Kathryn]

When it comes down to fighting separatists and russians. Not when it comes down to persecution.

Whatever you say.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Name calling is not helping.

That I did not do.

It is unnecessary to point out everything I disagree with. It is a waste of time.

Then why are you?

Dangerous for women? How so? Well, abortion across the board without discretion? Yeah! That is wrong.

It goes far beyond abortion and includes contraception and reproductive freedom, even their entire ability to live as equals to men rather than being beneath them.
Amd as it is not unusual for an abortion to be necessary to preserve the health, fertility and even life of someone with a hard pregnancy they need to be legal and subject to medical privacy laws.

Queer? Queer by definition is strange or odd. So, why promote this behavior?

LGBT.
And there's nothing wrong with being strange and odd. It's more a problem that others have, those who use those terms.

Physically deformed? Religions are not against them. But don't try to play against women when you are born a man. You have advantage if you have bigger lungs and different hip structure.

Yes, they have taken it as a sign of possession and making a pact with the devil. Left handedness, moles and birthmarks have even been death sentences.

Mental illness? Not sure who you are implying/ but people of faith are never against people with mental illness.

Then why did some bunghole pastor recently say autism is demonic possession? Garbage like that is more common than you realize, with some dismissing all mental illness as demonic possession.

Jews? Sometimes people are against Israel and what that regime do - and when you speak against it - they turn it into something it is not.
Even folks in the middle think they are against Jew.
Understand the difference.

Being against the actions of a state is not being against the people of the state. And do not Israel is hardly only Jews living there.

Soon you will see you were wrong.

Im not qrong because they have keot fighting for their sovereignty for years now.

Peer pressure and misinformation.

Hah! They know what's going on and they're the ones misinformed.

Ukrainian national and dual-national males aged 18 to 60 are prohibited from leaving the country.

Why do you think so? Because they are required to fight.
So it is not a choice.

They aren't allowed to leave in Russia either, and Putin is the one who started this war of aggression. Ukraine is defending themselves, and even the United States requires all men to register for the draft.

 

[Sargonski]

What is so hard about understanding there is a massive difference between having neo nazi individuals fighting in your army and supporting neo nazi ideology? Supporting the Azov Brigade to fight in your favor, particularly when this is essential to protect your territory, does NOT automatically entail supporting persecution.

By your rationale then, Russia also supports neo nazism since the Russian Imperial Movement and the Rusich have been fighting for Russia.

Is this how you view this war? As a fight between two neo nazi groups?

Who cares about support for the ideology .. not relevant to the fact that Ukraine supported .. accepted and incorporated Azov Paramilitary groups .. and accepted what they were doing to the Ethnic Russians .. I don't care if Zelensky is not having midnight candle ceremony .. and by your strawman fallacy Russia does not support anything .. and at this point you have backtracked yourself into a crucified position.

Fact - Azov Militia - Paramilitary groups were terrorizing Ethnic Russians .. commiting crimes against the people living in the separatist Regions.
On hearing this information you cried out "Lies Lies" Russian Propaganda. ... but this is nonsense because you are saying that Congress is putting out "Russian Propaganda" as it is Congress - and by inclusion the Pentagon - White House .. and our intelligence agencies are saying is "Russian Propaganda"

Do you understand this is ridiculous nonsense .. that Russia is not a key influencer in Washington .. that Donald and Tulsi are not "Russian Assets" .. and that people telling you the facts on the ground .. are not Russian Propagandists because those facts conflict with Blue Koolaide imbibed trope du jour ?

What part of pepetuation of a woke joke - canceling information that conflicts with "necessary illusions" a book by what used to be a Hero on the side of Liberals .. just another Neocon to be demonized

and you question the level of dupage going on here .. an opportunity for correction this is Brother Koldo

 

[Koldo]

Who cares about support for the ideology .. not relevant to the fact that Ukraine supported .. accepted and incorporated Azov Paramilitary groups .. and accepted what they were doing to the Ethnic Russians .. I don't care if Zelensky is not having midnight candle ceremony .. and by your strawman fallacy Russia does not support anything .. and at this point you have backtracked yourself into a crucified position.

Fact - Azov Militia - Paramilitary groups were terrorizing Ethnic Russians .. commiting crimes against the people living in the separatist Regions.
On hearing this information you cried out "Lies Lies" Russian Propaganda. ... but this is nonsense because you are saying that Congress is putting out "Russian Propaganda" as it is Congress - and by inclusion the Pentagon - White House .. and our intelligence agencies are saying is "Russian Propaganda"

Do you understand this is ridiculous nonsense .. that Russia is not a key influencer in Washington .. that Donald and Tulsi are not "Russian Assets" .. and that people telling you the facts on the ground .. are not Russian Propagandists because those facts conflict with Blue Koolaide imbibed trope du jour ?

What part of pepetuation of a woke joke - canceling information that conflicts with "necessary illusions" a book by what used to be a Hero on the side of Liberals .. just another Neocon to be demonized

and you question the level of dupage going on here .. an opportunity for correction this is Brother Koldo

I won't let this one slide. It bears repeating before I reply to your post:

By your rationale then, Russia also supports neo nazism since the Russian Imperial Movement and the Rusich have been fighting for Russia.

Is this how you view this war? As a fight between two neo nazi groups?

Don't run away. Answer the question.

 

[Stevicus]

Is this how you view this war? As a fight between two neo nazi groups?

I wouldn't characterize them as Nazis, per se, but both sides do appear highly nationalistic and have a serious grudge with each other which apparently goes back for generations.

 

[stvdv]

In 50 sec the deal explained between NATO, America and Gorbachev in 1990, which Americans (NATO) broke in 1994

Only a fool goes back on an international deal like this, only a fool blames Putin, while they (Americans, NATO) are the cause of this war, that should never have happened

The West, now, understandably, is very embarrassed, as they should. To say sorry after making a small mistake is hard for many, but to admit you are the cause of 500.000 death/injured is unbearable, and near to impossible to admit

 

[Stevicus]

In 50 sec the deal explained between NATO, America and Gorbachev in 1990, which Americans (NATO) broke in 1994

Only a fool goes back on an international deal like this, only a fool blames Putin, while they (Americans, NATO) are the cause of this war, that should never have happened

The West, now, understandably, is very embarrassed, as they should. To say sorry after making a small mistake is hard for many, but to admit you are the cause of 500.000 death/injured is unbearable, and near to impossible to admit

I guess they're saying that since they were just verbal assurances, they don't really count as an officially ratified treaty.

As Samuel Goldwyn famously said, "A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on."

 

[Koldo]

I wouldn't characterize them as Nazis, per se, but both sides do appear highly nationalistic and have a serious grudge with each other which apparently goes back for generations.

I agree.

 

[stvdv]

I guess they're saying that since they were just verbal assurances

if an honourable man gives his word, he'll keep his word

they don't really count as an officially ratified treaty.

It proves Russia is more honorable than America/NATO

As Samuel Goldwyn famously said, "A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on."

Thank you
Valuable fact

You prove my point
As this applies only to liars
So, people who insist on this phrase
Only exhibit publicly "I can't be trusted"

Way to go America/NATO

Hence, I don't trust America/NATO

 

[stvdv]

YouTube: Another proof that Biden (administration) is a culprit in the Russian/Ukrainian war. NATO is all about selling weapons by American companies, that's why they kept expanding NATO, thereby violating the agreement with Russia

Good we have internet and we can check things ourselves. Many people come clean, and expose the dirty secrets the governments have been playing for decades

It's all very messy. But the truth will triumph

I really hope that the Trump administration will clean up this mess soon

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That is contradictory.

No, it isn't. I don't care about moral high grounds, I care about people.

Intentions are very important .. appearing to "do the right thing" can be merely deception.

Again, I've outright stated that I believe the USA and UK are assisting Ukraine because it is in their geopolitical interests. But what's the alternative? Should we only expect nations to help each other when there is literally no benefit for them to do so?

Exactly .. and the Western Empire were the victors in WWII, and history shows that Empires
rise and fall .. due to human nature.

Right. Now, back to Ukraine...

So do I .. including the Russian part of the population in Eastern Ukraine.

What about them?

It's strange that people only seem to care when it has a Pro-Western govt. , and couldn't care
less about them otherwise.

Again, this is a false dilemma. My concern is with all people.

I doubt whether you care about Russian people being invaded .. because they are only
'commis' ..

This statement is hilarious on multiple levels.

Firstly, because Russia isn't being invaded.

Secondly, because I have been repeatedly arguing from the position that states would respect each other's sovereign integrity and that imperialism is bad.

Thirdly, because I have never, and would never, called anyone a "commie" in such a way.

Fourthly, because Russia isn't communist.

Fifth, because - from the perspective of many people on this forum - I am a communist.

I'm sure you cheered when there was a military coup in 2014,

Not a military coup. It was a popular uprising against a government who oppressed and murdered its own people, assisted by Russian military agents.

and thereafter Pro-Russians in Eastern
Ukraine were killed and oppressed.

Total BS. Not a thing that happened.

I have already said .. this conflict should have been settled in Istanbul in April 2022.

"Settled" how? Whose terms should have been accepted? The terms Ukraine set that Putin rejected?

More than two years later, Russia's position has changed. That doesn't surprise me.
They have been sanctioned, their money stolen, and subject to serious NATO aggression.

How is the money being stolen? They chose to invade, knowing the consequences. Do you believe powerful countries should be allowed to invade their neighbours without consequence?

There needs to be dialogue between G7 and BRICS.

Dialogue is being attempted at every stage. Russia are the ones most ardent in refusing peace terms and setting unreasonable requirements for peace talks.

SOURCE:

Peace negotiations in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

..not just me. The majority of people in the world.

Answer the question:

so do you believe that because the USA doesn't live up to your personal moral standards, Ukraine should just suffer and die when it is attacked by a belligerent, imperialist state?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It proves Russia is more honorable than America/NATO

Despite the fact that Russia broke multiple treaties and international law by invading and annexing their neighbour?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

YouTube: Another proof that Biden (administration) is a culprit in the Russian/Ukrainian war. NATO is all about selling weapons by American companies, that's why they kept expanding NATO, thereby violating the agreement with Russia

You keep bringing up this "agreement". What agreement? Where? In what document or treaty?

Name it.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Not a military coup. It was a popular uprising against a government who oppressed and murdered its own people, assisted by Russian military agents..

A one-sided view ..
i.e. it's not a military coup, because you support the "uprising"

Answer the question:

so do you believe that because the USA doesn't live up to your personal moral standards, Ukraine should just suffer and die when it is attacked by a belligerent, imperialist state?

You cite two different issues ..
I do NOT believe that a nation who is clearly not acting in a moral way, should be interfering
in another nation's affairs.
..and that includes Russia.

However, we all know that the US and Russia are continually involved in proxy wars, and that
they do not share political ideologies.

If either the US and/or Russia become extremist in their ideologies, we see more conflict around
the world.
..so I do not agree with you, that morality is irrelevant .. it clearly is not.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

A one-sided view ..
i.e. it's not a military coup, because you support the "uprising"

No, it wasn't a military coup because, by definition, the military didn't seize unilateral power by force. It was a popular rebellion carried out against an unpopular government, initiated by the slaughter of dozens of protestors and the enactment of Draconian laws designed to silence dissent and disempower political opposition. The ruling government was dissolved by a bi-partisan agreement to form a unified government and hold an early election, and Yanukovych was removed from power by a parliamentary mandate following his flight to Russia.

You will not win on this front. I know more about Euromaidan than you.

You cite two different issues ..
I do NOT believe that a nation who is clearly not acting in a moral way, should be interfering
in another nation's affairs.
..and that includes Russia.

This position is ridiculous. Countries aren't moral agents. They act in accordance with their geopolitical interests. Your position is basically against the idea that any state can interfere anywhere, regardless of what kind of interference it is or what warrants it.

I am in favour of states, regardless of my personal assessment of their moral imperatives, supporting other states when they are attacked by imperialist agressors.

However, we all know that the US and Russia are continually involved in proxy wars, and that
they do not share political ideologies.

Stick to Ukraine. Do you believe this fact should preclude the USA from providing aid, or prevent Ukraine from asking for aid?

If either the US and/or Russia become extremist in their ideologies, we see more conflict around
the world.
..so I do not agree with you, that morality is irrelevant .. it clearly is not.

Your purity testing is absurd and politically naive. I care about the freedom of Ukraine and it's people.

Do you believe Ukraine has the right to determine its own political and military alliances; yes or no?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Since the NATO gave missiles to Poland,
it's mean the that Russia is considered as real threaten to Europe.

Russia never threatens Poland?

All allies of Russia, are destroyed or sanctioned., like Cuba, Venezuela, Iraq, Syria. N korea.

Would you want to live in any of those countries?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

USA supported Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan to defeat Russia.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Besides Ukraine, since ww2 Russia didn't involved in any war direct or indirect against the West

Is this a serious comment?