Same crime, same punishment

[Left Coast]

He hasn't specified that Bob was recidivist or something.
Or whether he was on probation.

Correct, he gave no context to his hypothetical. But in the real world, context often matters. So I gave some.

 

[Left Coast]

Take a DWI
-first offense usually a class A misdemeanor
-second offense usually a class D felony
-prior offender usually a class C felony
-chronic offender now we are getting into class B or A felony

They all are different levels. Now one can argue they are the same crime but the levels makes them different.

Can you find a real example of two people with identical criminal histories committing an identical crime, and one of them received a $300 fine and one of them received 3 years in prison?

 

[Estro Felino]

Correct, he gave no context to his hypothetical. But in the real world, context often matters. So I gave some.

In my opinion there should be proportion between the penalty and the crime...right?

Do you agree that a judge in the US is allowed to give 15 years for a robbery bank, and 17 years for manslaughter...
and that is completely disproportionate?
Because robbing a bank without harming nobody is not the same thing as taking someone's life.

 

[We Never Know]

Can you find a real example of two people with identical criminal histories committing an identical crime, and one of them received a $300 fine and one of them received 3 years in prison?

Its some things I've read in the past. Without the names that I have forgotten I can't look up individual court cases.

 

[PureX]

IMO punishments shouldn't vary so widely.
Example..
1. Joe gets busted with some pot. $300 fine
2. Bob gets busted with the same amount of pot, 3 years DOC

If the crimes are the same, IMO the sentence should be the same too.

Thoughts?

Edit.... BOTH are first time offenders.

Intent to sell? Previous convictions? Social (in)tolerance?

There are always mitigating and aggravating factors.

 

[Left Coast]

In my opinion there should be proportion between the penalty and the crime...right?

Do you agree that a judge in the US is allowed to give 15 years for a robbery bank, and 17 years for manslaughter...
and that is completely disproportionate?
Because robbing a bank without harming nobody is not the same thing as taking someone's life.

That depends entirely on the context of each crime. Manslaughter is not murder. Also, I have no idea what the specific criminal penalties are for robbery and manslaughter (and I'm betting you don't either).

 

[Left Coast]

Its some things I've read in the past. Without the names that I have forgotten I can't look up individual court cases.

If you come across a real example in the future, let me know, I'd be curious to see the details.

 

[We Never Know]

Can you find a real example of two people with identical criminal histories committing an identical crime, and one of them received a $300 fine and one of them received 3 years in prison?

Its was a deal in a small town where two individuals were charged with prior DWI's(three each) no other charges. The family were throwing a fit over the difference in the sentencing.

Perp one, a 23 year old male had a rich daddy that got him a good lawyer. He got a $300 fine

Perp two, a 22 year old male was a poor working man that had to go with a public defender. He got 3 years DOC

 

[We Never Know]

If you come across a real example in the future, let me know, I'd be curious to see the details.

We see difference in sentencing regularly when it comes to the rich and popular vs the poor and unknown.

 

[Estro Felino]

That depends entirely on the context of each crime. Manslaughter is not murder. Also, I have no idea what the specific criminal penalties are for robbery and manslaughter (and I'm betting you don't either).

I know those in the penal code of my country.
Which legally bind the judge. The judge's hands are tied. He cannot invent penalties just like that.

 

[Left Coast]

Its was a deal in a small town where two individuals were charged with prior DWI's(three each) no other charges. The family were throwing a fit over the difference in the sentencing.

Perp one, a 23 year old male had a rich daddy that got him a good lawyer. He got a $300 fine

Perp two, a 22 year old male was a poor working man that had to go with a public defender. He got 3 years DOC

Ah okay. So in that case it sounds like the second guy had a poor defense. Quality of legal counsel does matter (no shade to public defenders, who are often overworked and cannot dedicate the time they would like to every case).

 

[Revoltingest]

IMO punishments shouldn't vary so widely.
Example..
1. Joe gets busted with some pot. $300 fine
2. Bob gets busted with the same amount of pot, 3 years DOC

If the crimes are the same, IMO the sentence should be the same too.

Thoughts?

Edit.... BOTH are first time offenders.

There are sentencing guidelines.
But I sense that the real disparities arise in...
1) Whom cops decide to go after...or not.
2) Whom prosecutors decide to go after...or not.

 

[Left Coast]

I know those in the penal code of my country.
Which legally bind the judge. The judge's hands are tied. He cannot invent penalties just like that.

US judges can't invent penalties "just like that" either.

 

[We Never Know]

In my opinion there should be proportion between the penalty and the crime...right?

Do you agree that a judge in the US is allowed to give 15 years for a robbery bank, and 17 years for manslaughter...
and that is completely disproportionate?
Because robbing a bank without harming nobody is not the same thing as taking someone's life.

Manslaughter is usually a state level crime

Bank robbery is a federal level crime

 

[McBell]

Which legally bind the judge. The judge's hands are tied. He cannot invent penalties just like that.

Judges in the US are required to follow guidelines as well.
So even though it may look to you that they are just throwing out punishments willy nilly, the fact is, they are not.

 

[Left Coast]

We see difference in sentencing regularly when it comes to the rich and popular vs the poor and unknown.

That's true in general. Rich folks can afford top tier lawyers, not to mention the cost to appeal decisions that go against them, etc.

 

[Subduction Zone]

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/27/us/georgia-couple-confederate-flags-threats/index.html

They do.

They don't. I can tell that you did not read the article. I am going to put this in a spoiler, but I can see why the judge imposed that sentence. You probably just read the title:

“Torres, who had retrieved a shotgun from his vehicle, pointed his shotgun at the group of African American party-goers and stated he was going to kill them while his co-defendants stated that ‘the little ones can get one too,’ referring to the young children at the party,” the statement said.

 

[We Never Know]

Ah okay. So in that case it sounds like the second guy had a poor defense. Quality of legal counsel does matter (no shade to public defenders, who are often overworked and cannot dedicate the time they would like to every case).

"Quality of legal counsel does matter"

It shouldn't matter because it shows the poor get a harsher sentence for being poor.

Same crime should be same punishment regardless of attorney

 

[Estro Felino]

Its was a deal in a small town where two individuals were charged with prior DWI's(three each) no other charges. The family were throwing a fit over the difference in the sentencing.

Perp one, a 23 year old male had a rich daddy that got him a good lawyer. He got a $300 fine

Perp two, a 22 year old male was a poor working man that had to go with a public defender. He got 3 years DOC

Because in the US judges are untouchables. They are deities.
And they are allowed to do such things.
Doublestandardism based upon class and lawyer's social prestige
Wow

 

[McBell]

"Quality of legal counsel does matter"

It shouldn't matter because it shows the poor get a harsher sentence for being poor.

Same crime should be same punishment regardless of attorney

I seriously doubt you will find two "identical" crimes.
There are always extenuating circumstances.