Same Sex Marrige By a Church.

[MoonWater]

and by the way, you can prove the bible wrong with the bible when you find passages that contradict eachother, just as paul's passages against homosexuality contradict the passage 9-10ths posted which states all love as godly. Speaking of which, are you actually going to respond to his post, I mean legitimately respond rather than simply dodging his point

 

[Archer]

It's not. Apparently it's not bad, but there are more accurate translations out there.

Have a look at these threads:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/biblical-debates/68882-how-accurate-kjv-scholarly-view.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/biblical-debates/25933-kjv-good-translation.html

BTW - you'll see a lot of posts by angellous_evangellous in those threads. He's in the process of doing his PhD in New Testament studies and has quite a bit of experience on this issue, so I'm personally inclined to give his opinion a lot of weight.


That depends on your point of view. The Bible gives quite a bit of support to virtue in general, so whether you think it supports homosexual marriage will depend on whether you see virtue in it... but your opinion in that regard will have come from your own assessment, not the Bible.

Not my assessment from the texts.

 

[Archer]

Too much is lost in deciding what one wants to believe I prefer to just follow what the book says.

 

[MoonWater]

The Bible explicitly condems Homosexuality Old and New testament I defer to the new testament:

[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]Romans 1:18-28
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]Romans 2:1
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]I Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]I Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. [/FONT]

Archer again that's homosexuality as in homosexual sex and speaks nothing of same sex marriage. Please refer again to the last point in my post and you will see I addressed this

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Bible explicitly condems Homosexuality Old and New testament I defer to the new testament:

[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]Romans 1:18-28 [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]You're adding your own interpretation to the text when you assume that "natural" means "heterosexual" and "unnatural" means "homosexual". It would be unnatural for a homosexual person to have relations with someone of the opposite sex.[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]Romans 2:1 [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. [/FONT]

Hmm. I think this passage speaks more in favor of allowing same-sex marriages than anything else.

[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]I Corinthians 6:9-10 [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

[/FONT]
First: do you think "homosexual offenders" means all homosexuals?

Second: how do you reconcile an anti-homosexuality interpretation of this passage with Romans 7?

[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]I Corinthians 6:19-20 [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. [/FONT]

You're adding your own spin again. What makes you think that homosexuality "dishonors" God?

BTW: speaking of 1 Corinthians, what do you make of this passage:

8But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is (G)good for them if they remain (H)even as I.
9But if they do not have self-control, (I)let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Paul phrases this as a blanket instruction; he never says that it's only for straight people. Don't homosexual people "burn with passion" in the same way that heterosexual people do? If so, doesn't this apply to same-sex couples just as much as opposite-sex couples?

 

[MoonWater]

Disciples no I do not think you evil though his purposes you seem to serve at times. Perhaps just playing devils advocate.

whatever. Archer you asked the question and we are seeking to answer and debate with you about the topic as we assume you wanted when you asked the question. Now your going on the defensive and saying we are "serving satan's purposes" simply because we are trying to have a conversation with you and don't agree with your opinion. What gives? There's no need to have a hissy fit just because we are trying to debate with you in a debate forum.

 

[Archer]

I have read every post yet nothing but conjecture and telling me I need to understand this or that. Not happening guys. If you can not present anything to back up your points then their is nothing.

 

[Archer]

[FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

I added nothing penguin. BTW don't pick a verse take the whole passage as I did.
[/FONT]

 

[MoonWater]

I have read every post yet nothing but conjecture and telling me I need to understand this or that. Not happening guys. If you can not present anything to back up your points then their is nothing.

we have been, indeed penguin has made some very good points, you just choose to ignore them.

 

[Archer]

BTW: speaking of 1 Corinthians, what do you make of this passage:

Exactly what it says. It says nothing condoning homosexuality!

 

[Archer]

Where are those points? I saw posts but nothing even close to tangible.

 

[fantome profane]

Too much is lost in deciding what one wants to believe I prefer to just follow what the book says.

The wisdom of Ned Flanders.

​

" I've done everything the Bible says! Even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"

 

[Archer]

The wisdom of Ned Flanders.

​

" I've done everything the Bible says! Even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"

I gotta ask New contradicting the old after the assention or is there something else?

 

[Archer]

I was asked about starting this thread and yet nothing from scripture? There is nothing.

Paul warned against this type of thing and I can see why it just leads to frustration.

 

[MoonWater]

again you have been shown things from scripture. But instead of providing a counter argument you ignore it and claim we haven't made any points. The ball is in your court archer, we're just waiting for you to see it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Exactly what it says. It says nothing condoning homosexuality!

It says nothing condemning homosexuality either. Just "if you don't have self-control, marry." Not "if you don't have self-control and you're straight".

Cast yourself back to your single days. Say you found yourself "burning with passion" for another man who "burned with passion" for you right back. Deciding what to do, you flip open your Bibles to 1 Corinthians 8 and see those two verses I quoted. Would these suggest to you that you should marry or not?

Look: you didn't ask for something condoning homosexuality, you asked for something that would allow a Christian church to marry a same-sex couple. If you want us to show you a verse that says "and the Lord did decree that same-sex marriage was A-OK", well, don't hold your breath. It's not there, just as there's nothing in the Bible that condones electric lights or a three-branch style of government (though there is a fair bit that seems to look down on democracy).

What the Bible does contain is a large amount of guidance that suggests general principles to follow. If putting some thought into these principles (i.e. "interpretation" in your OP) is too much for you, well that's your problem, not mine.

BTW: I've been playing along with the rules you gave in the OP so far, but the Bible also doesn't support the "scripture alone" stance that you put on this exercise in the OP.

 

[Archer]

It says nothing condemning homosexuality either. Just "if you don't have self-control, marry." Not "if you don't have self-control and you're straight".

Cast yourself back to your single days. Say you found yourself "burning with passion" for another man who "burned with passion" for you right back. Deciding what to do, you flip open your Bibles to 1 Corinthians 8 and see those two verses I quoted. Would these suggest to you that you should marry or not?

Look: you didn't ask for something condoning homosexuality, you asked for something that would allow a Christian church to marry a same-sex couple. If you want us to show you a verse that says "and the Lord did decree that same-sex marriage was A-OK", well, don't hold your breath. It's not there, just as there's nothing in the Bible that condones electric lights or a three-branch style of government (though there is a fair bit that seems to look down on democracy).

What the Bible does contain is a large amount of guidance that suggests general principles to follow. If putting some thought into these principles (i.e. "interpretation" in your OP) is too much for you, well that's your problem, not mine.

BTW: I've been playing along with the rules you gave in the OP so far, but the Bible also doesn't support the "scripture alone" stance that you put on this exercise in the OP.

From the same author homosexuality is condemned. I showed that.

 

[Archer]

again you have been shown things from scripture. But instead of providing a counter argument you ignore it and claim we haven't made any points. The ball is in your court archer, we're just waiting for you to see it.

Do realize this is not a win lose contest. I have asked a question that is all. There have been no answers. There have been some well formulated and competent responses though.

 

[Archer]

Let us remember that under the old covenant homosexuals were to be killed, Paul was speaking to Converts, many Jews by birth.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

From the same author homosexuality is condemned. I showed that.

No, you didn't. You showed that you think that heterosexuality is "natural" and homosexuality is "unnatural", and that you think that all homosexuals are automatically "homosexual offenders".