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Santa Clause?
- Thread starter Riders
- Start date
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
We did do santa with our children. It was great fun and they have fond memories of it. No harm done. I used it to teach them about critical thinking and what is good evidence and what is not good evidence when they started to question.
siti
Well-Known Member
Geez! Are you suggesting Santa is not real? I got in trouble for suggesting that to my friends at primary school several decades ago. My Dad had inadvertently let the cat out of the bag by stepping on a squeaky giraffe in the process of posing as a stocking-filling Father Christmas after one too many festive tipples. I was not in the least bit distressed by this - I guess psychologically it was somewhat comforting to know that wasn't really a fat old dude in a red elf suit creeping around my bedroom whilst I was sleeping. But when I tried to enlighten my schoolmates, the teacher was aghast and I was sworn to secrecy - which I have diligently kept for over half a century until now. I hope none of my old schoolmates are reading this...they'll never forgive me!
We kids were raised with the usual Santa story, but I quickly became skeptical. There was too much contrary evidence, much of it provided by my parents themselves.
For example, we also had a lot of kid's books on science and nature. I recall this one: https://www.amazon.com/Mammals-Familiar-American-Species-Golden/dp/B00302LAN6 , stating that bats were the only order of flying mammals. It said nothing about flying caribou (N.American reindeer). Others explained the basics of biology or evolution, and I couldn't see how a quadruped could grow entirely new flying limbs from nothing, if evolution only modified existing structures. Obviously someone was lying.
For example, we also had a lot of kid's books on science and nature. I recall this one: https://www.amazon.com/Mammals-Familiar-American-Species-Golden/dp/B00302LAN6 , stating that bats were the only order of flying mammals. It said nothing about flying caribou (N.American reindeer). Others explained the basics of biology or evolution, and I couldn't see how a quadruped could grow entirely new flying limbs from nothing, if evolution only modified existing structures. Obviously someone was lying.
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I didn't raise my daughter to believe in Santa, but I let her take photos with Santa at the shopping centre.
You dont have to believe in Santa for it to still be fun apparently.
You dont have to believe in Santa for it to still be fun apparently.
siti
Well-Known Member
Yeah...some of those nature books are remarkably incomplete!
Heyo
Veteran Member
We did celebrate Santa (on the 6th of December as that is his day) and Christmas. But my parents lever told me stories about who brought the presents. They didn't really lie to me. I figured out that it was some kind of tradition and the adults didn't believe it themselves.
If Santa Claus still means Saint Nicholas, why do you think it is about magic?
Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia
Yes.
Tradition and it's fun for them. My daughter has passed this tradition to her daughter, and I dress as Santa each year and bring a gift.
I find that sad. My grandfather, in a drunken rant, ruined Santa for my mother, and she resents him for it until this day.
Good for them!
I consider this to be no more of a lie than being an actor in a play. Only in this case, I'm playing the character.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Did you tell your kids that they were going to watch a play?
No, but do you make it a point to emphasize to your kids that the characters in the play aren't real and are played by actors?
The children have never believed in Father Christmas/Santa Clause/St Nick or whatever. Probably because there was never any need to. We've tried to teach the children about as many mid winter celebrations as we could. We held a different mid winter celebration each year.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
The 6th? Interesting. Where are you from?
The 6th over here in Belgium is Sinterklaas (Saint Nicholaas). Saint Nicholaas got exported to the US by the Dutch which then in turn was morphed into Santa Claus and the date was moved to christmass.
I've never heared of a culture that celebrated Santa (the "ho ho ho" guy with the sled from the north pole) on the 6th.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
He was declared a Saint which means he supposedly performed "miracles".If Santa Claus still means Saint Nicholas, why do you think it is about magic?
Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
So even if Nicholaas is meant instead of the magic guy that lives at the north pole, it still concerns magic.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Germany.
It's not the ho ho ho guy (but he's often displayed as a fat guy with a white beard and red robe). And in some circles he's the one putting presents into the children's shoes on St. Nicholaus day.
But except from the image no other notions of Santa Claus have swung back to Germany (or anywhere in Europe as far as know). He's not connected to Christmas.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
We here don't really do the Santa Claus thing, but the Sinterklaas thing is quite huge in belgium and the netherlands.
Just about all children go through it. As a parent you don't even need to tell them anything. They pick it up from everywhere. TV, school, friends,...
And they absolutely believe it from age 3 to age 5, 6 or 7.
I like it very much that I don't need to tell them about it and that they pick it up themselves... That way I don't have to lie to them, LOL.
However, I do play dumb, as if I have no idea - eventhough I do play the game and when they go to sleep on the 5th, they first go through the ritual of placing their shoe with a carrot in it for Sinterklaas' horse together with a drink for "zwarte piet", his helpers along with a drawing for Sinterklaas.
I then take half the carrot away, as if the horse took a bite, empty the drink, take the drawing away and then put toys down. I also add cookies and chocolat and mess around with the living room... like put a chair down etc, making it look as if burglers or something were there and it all had to be quick, setting the scene as if chairs fell down in the hurry etc.
But I never directly lie. They enter the room on the 6th and are all excited and tell me that it was Sinterklaas. I just don't deny it.
I always told myself that I would raise my kids not playing such games because I want to raise them rationally and not motivate magical beliefs etc. But then I read up on side psychology and psychological development. As it turns out.... it's actually GOOD for kids and their development. The world to a toddler is a magical place. As they grow older, around age 6, they start realizing that the world isn't actually as magical as they thought it was and they start thinking more. That's when they start to realize that such things couldn't just happen, that it makes no sense. And that, the fact that they themselves reach such conclusions, is in fact HUGE in their development. It's also a bit of a dramatic moment for them when they find out there is no such thing as magic.
But what things like Sinterklaas (or santa clause, or the easter bunny,..) etc actually do for a kid, is tailor to that "magical place" that they perceive the world to be as toddlers. It fits right into their world view. And it's actually healthy and important.
And indeed... I never told my kids. THEY came up with the entire thing by picking things up left and right. And when I ask them a bit of a critical question, like "well ok, but how does Sinterklaas get into the house then??? all doors are locked!" you literally see them inventing answers on the spot, oftenly invoking magic, to "explain it away". So I just let them.
This year, 2 months ago, my 7-year old suddenly came upto me saying "it's not real, is it?". I asked him why you thought it wasn't. And he started a half hour lecture explaining in detail all things that didn't make sense. I was so proud of him. I didn't confirm nor deny it.
He didn't mention it again and acted all surprised and enthousiastic when he entered the living room with his 4-year old sister on the 6th.
She was SOOOO happy seeing all the gifts and candy. My son looked at me. He gave me a smile and a semi-wink... I knew exactly what he was thinking. It made me even more proud of him... in fact that smile almost made me cry.
Christians make a distinction between miracles and magic.
The former are supernatural phenomena that come from God. The latter is supernatural phenomena from other sources, i.e. humans, Satan, etc.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Cool. Didn't know Germany celebrated that to.
Is it also the lore where he travels the roofs on a white horse, with his helpers?
Does he also come by boat from Spain?
This guy?
I really thought it was almost exclusively a Belgian / Dutch thing.
Like Jesus, Santa's bio and activities are largely the stuff of legend. He's only loosely identified with Nicolas, in some regions.If Santa Claus still means Saint Nicholas, why do you think it is about magic?
Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia