Sasha Baron Cohen | Harmless Fun or Criminally Offensive

[Trey of Diamonds]

I have to disagree, Cohen has made a spectacle out of a variety of racists, neo nazis, fundamentalists and otherwise different colorful mobs who could lynch him.
in his upcoming 'Bruno' movie there is a scene of Cohen making a run from ultra-ultra-orthodox Jews in one of the hardcore neighborhoods in Jerusalem.

Yes, and these are safe targets. Society finds them acceptable victims. He doesn't have to fear the victims as long as society says they deserve the treatment he gives them. Its like Dexter the serial killer. Folks think hes ok because he only kills other serial killers. Doesn't change the fact that he's a murderer.

 

[Caladan]

Yes, and these are safe targets. Society finds them acceptable victims. He doesn't have to fear the victims as long as society says they deserve the treatment he gives them. Its like Dexter the serial killer. Folks think hes ok because he only kills other serial killers. Doesn't change the fact that he's a murderer.

Then what are you saying? I thought your argument was that he was picking on the defensless victims alone. there are many examples of Cohen physically risking himself to get a good scene. this is the man who walked into a packed rodeo in the south and made a farce out of American foreign relations, and of American nationalism. the man who previously walked into a 'rednack' bar and got the whole bar singing 'throw the Jew down the well' along with him.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Then what are you saying? I thought your argument was that he was picking on the defensless victims alone. there are many examples of Cohen physically risking himself to get a good scene. this is the man who walked into a packed rodeo in the south and made a farce out of American foreign relations, and of American nationalism. the man who previously walked into a 'rednack' bar and got the whol bar singing 'throw the Jew down the well' along with him.

He isn't in any danger. There are unseen body guards to extract him from any real danger he may get into. It isn't that his victims are defensless or not, its that they are victims at all. What he does is harmful. The fact that the victim is someone that society disapproves of shouldn't matter. Hurting people is bad. Cohen hurts people and he enjoys it. The fact that I don't like the people he hurts doesn't earn him a pass from me. I hate to bring the word principle into the conversation but I do feel that its a matter of principle.

But I also admit that I just don't find any of it funny and I'm sure that has an impact on it. Its very possible that if I found him funny I would be less judgemental. :sarcastic

 

[Caladan]

He isn't in any danger. There are unseen body guards to extract him from any real danger he may get into.

Thats new to me, where can I get information about this?

It isn't that his victims are defensless or not, its that they are victims at all. What he does is harmful. The fact that the victim is someone that society disapproves of shouldn't matter. Hurting people is bad. Cohen hurts people and he enjoys it. The fact that I don't like the people he hurts doesn't earn him a pass from me. I hate to bring the word principle into the conversation but I do feel that its a matter of principle.

I think you are missing the point. Cohen is doing more than parading these people, he parades whole cultural phenomenas- hypocrisy, racism, sexism, fundamentalism etc.
I have little sympathy for many of the jerks he turns into laughing stocks, on the other hand, I'd like him to avoid a few other individuals in his satires, but I still dont see the vast majority or maybe none of them as defensless victims, so far they all seemed capable of fending for themselves.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I think you are missing the point. Cohen is doing more than parading these people, he parades whole cultural phenomenas- hypocrisy, racism, sexism, fundamentalism etc.

I'm not missing your point, I'm suspicious of it. I suspect that Cohen has little care for these cultural phenomena and cares only for the thrill of humiliating someone. This isn't something we are going to convince the other on, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Personally I hope you're right, it would make his BS worth something even if I don't like it.

 

[Nepenthe]

He isn't in any danger. There are unseen body guards to extract him from any real danger he may get into.

Incorrect. He usually has one bodyguard. For example, in Bruno he joins a klan rally that resulted in SBC and his crew being chased off by AK-47 toting bigots. There was also a confrontation with a threatening crowd chanting "******" where the sole bodyguard for the crew ran off. Sascha had to run as well. He's placed himself in danger many times and with little backup in case things go wrong.

It isn't that his victims are defensless or not, its that they are victims at all. What he does is harmful. The fact that the victim is someone that society disapproves of shouldn't matter. Hurting people is bad. Cohen hurts people and he enjoys it. The fact that I don't like the people he hurts doesn't earn him a pass from me. I hate to bring the word principle into the conversation but I do feel that its a matter of principle.

You've mentioned "hurting" in other posts. Really? He "hurts" people? Humiliate yes. Savagely mock, yes. Embarass and expose hypocrisy, yes. But hurt?!?!? Noone's hurt in any way. You make SBC sound like some sadist when he's simply a satirist.

But I also admit that I just don't find any of it funny and I'm sure that has an impact on it. Its very possible that if I found him funny I would be less judgemental. :sarcastic

That's all you needed to say! I agree that his cringe inducing humor is not to everyone's taste.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Really? He "hurts" people? Humiliate yes. Savagely mock, yes. Embarass and expose hypocrisy, yes. But hurt?!?!? Noone's hurt in any way. You make SBC sound like some sadist when he's simply a satirist.

You are limiting "hurt" to physical pain, I'm not. I do think he is a sadist who gets off on creating psychological pain in others. But that could very well be the definition of a satirist.

 

[Nepenthe]

I find it interesting that while the Austrians are uncomfortable with Bruno's jokes empasizing Austria's Nazi history, they still get the joke and aren't up in arms about it like Kazakhstan was over Borat.

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Nervy Austria ready to laugh at Bruno

 

[d3vaLL]

SBC taught me that being offended by anything is absolutely my own fault and a weakness in general. People don't owe people anything. He takes touchy subjects and destroys them by diametrically opposing himself with his characters. Nationalism, religion, race, sexuality, basic organizations don't deserve this political respect because they happen to exist. I hate the very thought of all that crap, its ridiculous. People attach themselves to have something to associate purpose with, and he completely exposes it for what it is. Awesome. Brilliant. Hilarious.

 

[kai]

I think he is hilarious, and i also think he is actually taking the **** out of the people his exagerated charactors portray more then his "victims"

 

[Green Gaia]

Let's just say he's not my cup of tea....

 

[Panda]

I find him funny, a lot of the stuff he does are setups like the MTV awards with Eminem, the two planned it before hand.

 

[gnomon]

I watched a clip of the "In My Country There is Problem" piece he did in a country bar where he got the people to sing along with the throw the Jew down the well line. What I wonder is, despite the appearance of spontaneous participation, how long did he give the performance. I've read some articles where the claim by the club owners and treasurer that the performance went on for more than two hours. In other words that most people at the club knew Cohen was a comedian playing this character Borat and participated being "in on the joke". However, I don't know the truth of this.

His characterization of the people in that Romanian village was crap as well.

You cannot just watch such recordings and take what happened as we are told. I remember Moore's bit of crap documentary in Bowling for Columbine where he supposedly holds up an image of a dead child to Charlton Heston as Heston is walking away. Never mind that the most basic observation shows its an edited clip.

It's one thing to create a scene to match what you want in editing.

 

[Watchmen]

Maybe I'm getting a bit long in the tooth but I just despise Sasha Baron Cohen. And it isn't recent either, back before America had heard of him, in his early Ali-G days I thought he was terrible. Then, when Borat came out I thought he was insulting and disrespectful, especially to the Kazakh people who I had spent 3 years with and didn't feel deserved such disrespect. Now we have Bruno whos latest stunt at the MTV awards was to stick his bare *** in Eminem's face. I can't say I'm a big fan of Eminem but I certainly don't think he deserved such disrespect and I can't see how forcing a gay character on a homophobe on national TV can be productive.

So, am I just too damned old or is this guy a real loser?

Yes - you're too old.

The primary purpose of Cohen's "stunts" is to make social commentary. It's brilliant actually.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Yes - you're too old.

The primary purpose of Cohen's "stunts" is to make social commentary. It's brilliant actually.

I disagree. I believe the primary purpose of Cohen's so called stunts is to humilate and cause pain to another human being. His tactic of selecting targets that are socially disagreeable is what allows him to continue. He isn't brilliant, he is sadistic.

 

[Watchmen]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

I find it to be an amazing method of social commentary - his movies let the nation look at itself in the mirror.

 

[monta]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

I find it to be an amazing method of social commentary - his movies let the nation look at itself in the mirror.

But in order to let one nation look itself in the mirror he seems quite happy to steamroll over another. There is a not too subtle difference between attacking someone who has the means to defend themselves and someone who doesn't.

I am a fan of SBC, I find him thought provoking and funny a rare combo, but I think he went too far in his portrayal of Kazakhstan.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Yep. Although I think this is a great example of how important perception can be. We each have our own perception of Cohen and neither is probably correct, definitely not 100% correct. So what is more important, true motives or perceived motives? If it is ture motives, how can we ever know what those are?

 

[Smoke]

I find it interesting that while the Austrians are uncomfortable with Bruno's jokes empasizing Austria's Nazi history, they still get the joke and aren't up in arms about it like Kazakhstan was over Borat.

Although I didn't care for the movie at all, I really don't understand how anybody could see it and think the intent was to make fun of Kazakhs, or Muslims, or West Asians, or any of the other groups who took offense. SBC was quite clearly poking fun at the U.S. and not at any of those groups.

I think SBC's format has the potential to produce incisive, enlightening, and thought-provoking films. I don't think that potential is reached, or even reached for, in his work.

 

[Watchmen]

Right - Cohen's portrayal of Kazhakstan was fiction. Cohen's portrayal of America was real (to the extent to where editing takes over).