Satan : Universe

[Thief]

Well that isn't the case though, we don't know how to love, we just do, we don't know how to hate, we just do. Not everyone can assume the role of hate, and not everyone can assume the role of loving, but they are natural emotions. Just like guilt and remorse.


For example


I love my brothers and my girlfriend and family.
I hate the people that threaten their lives.


The emotions we feel everyday are not learned. Well I mean I guess in a way they kind of are, as we grew up around it. But it is instinct. Just like a mother dog protecting and defending her pups. Its love towards them, hostility towards those that threaten.


I don't know about you, but there is a few kids at my school that I just want to beat their faces in.

I don't know if you consider that hate, but I do.

yeah...I thought so...

Well, at this point, it see no commitment one way or the other.
If you go with your feelings at the moment you have them....
you will make mistakes.
That you say of yourself, acceptance of your error....doesn't lessen the fault....nor does it speak of your responsibility.

Maturity comes with age.

I kinda figured you were young. You type well enough, but your run of thought drops one way, and then the other.

I suppose at the moment, you're focused on expressing yourself.
That's fine.
The stand up for yourself routine can work.
If you don't mind standing alone.

Did I get a remark on?....
Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.
(it's proactive....you first)

 

[Orias]

yeah...I thought so...

Well, at this point, it see no commitment one way or the other.
If you go with your feelings at the moment you have them....
you will make mistakes.
That you say of yourself, acceptance of your error....doesn't lessen the fault....nor does it speak of your responsibility.

Well that is where you are misunderstanding. I never said to go with the emotions you have at the moment. I was saying to magnify your emotions and acknowledge them, but keep rationalization at mind. Even if you rationalize and use logic, mistakes can still be made. It is learning from your mistakes in which you mature.

If you accept responsibilty of your errors of course it doesn't lessen the fault, it just shows that you are responsible in acknowledging mistakes.

Maturity comes with age.

Not necessarily, a 30 year old man can still have the attitude of a twelve year old. It is learning from the mistakes made and keeping aware that makes one mature. Though age does play a larger role.

I kinda figured you were young. You type well enough, but your run of thought drops one way, and then the other.

It doesn't drop one way or another, it is just the way you percieve my words. You see the differences in life while I compare the similarities in everything. That is why you think that, because I compare more than contrast.

I suppose at the moment, you're focused on expressing yourself.
That's fine.
The stand up for yourself routine can work.
If you don't mind standing alone.

I do not stand alone, for there is alot of people like me on these forums.
You are expressing yourself too, don't exclude yourself.

Did I get a remark on?....
Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.
(it's proactive....you first)

I react, I don't enact. If I don't know someone I won't go up and introduce myself in person. I observe more than I speak, though it may not seem like it here. Instead I do unto others as they do unto me.


I hope you don't think that you got the best of me because I admitted to being a minor.

 

[SugaCubez352]

Exactly, we represent freedom of the mind, body, and blood.

Oh. I have a respectful question about your statement: "we (Satanism) represent freedom of mind..."

What exactly is the mind of a Satanist "free" from?

"Free" to believe as it pleases? "Free" from its own delusions? Does the Satanic Mind see the world and everything with perfect crystal clear perception that it knows the mystery and mechanics of everything? Or is it still lost-trapped-imprisoned in the dark... grasping for meaning like every other Mind?

I also have a question about Satanism being a "carnal" religion.

I understand that some brands of Satanism is atheistic-materialistic. And that such brands of satanism really love to rely on science and scientific discoveries to validate and back up their materialist (meaning devoid of supernatural and/or spiritual nonsense) weltanschauung.

There is a unfortunate possibility with running to science for validation. Especially with the rate at which science is progressing... the better technology and theories... and Quantum Mechanic.

Already mainstream science has curved back towards (not to) the realm of supra-materialism. By this I mean that with such current ideas/theories as subatomic quantum entanglement et all, the the implications of such, modern science is increasingly reflecting ideas it once rejected as being "spiritual hogwash."

What will the carnal-materialistic brands of Satanism do... say 300 years from now when such implications matures into a deeper understanding of the Cosmos and Reality. Hypothetically: pretend that 300 years from now science figures out that their old materialistic cosmology and worldview was immature and that they have dis-covered there is more to reality... what will Satanism do? Will it continue to assert that its carnal-materialistic weltanschauung is right and be left behind the passing of Time and Progression? Or will it evolve to keep up with Time and Progression of science and human understanding?

If it will evolve... does this not imply that what is today understood to be "satanism" is not entirely true and perfect and right?

If it is not true, perfect, and entirely right... then what exactly is the Satanic Mind "free" from essentially? Conviction is the state of mind when it is held convict in a prison of its own beliefs.

 

[Orias]

I think it should be noted that Satanists don't really have a 'holy book', and if you ask 10 Satanists exactly how to define Satanism you will get 10 different answers.

With conventional religion the authority comes from the outside, Whether it be from a holy book, a wise man, or a view of how the universe objectively 'should be', they mostly all can be defined from the top down.

Satanism is different in that the 'ultimate authority' comes from the 'inside', and although there are tenets to Satanism, they are more of a description of how a Satanist acts than a mandate for how they must. As such, most Satanists will agree on the core basics (else the label won't fit) but tend to grow apart as no two Satanic paths are the same. Or to put it metaphorically, We all share the same roots but no two trees grow exactly alike. This is a 'bottom up' religion.

Hence, to use another metaphor, trying to define Satanism in any sort of narrow spectrum is like trying to nail custard to a wall. Completely ineffective. By gaining one particular Satanists perspective on Satanism is only that. None of us speak for any but ourselves.

If any are interested in the core 'roots', they can be found by reading The Satanic Bible.

Your words are very truthful. I am glad you could clear that up.

 

[Thief]

I react, I don't enact. If I don't know someone I won't go up and introduce myself in person. I observe more than I speak, though it may not seem like it here. Instead I do unto others as they do unto me.


I hope you don't think that you got the best of me because I admitted to being a minor.

There's no 'best of you' to get.

I happen to be some old guy.

Maturity is a collection lines drawn, and your ability to see consequence before it turns about, and comes your way.
Maturity isn't a collection of mistakes you won't repeat.
If it were, the most mature people would wave their errors in your face and claim to be better than you, for having been so foolish.

At this point, just because of age and experience....I AM more mature than you.

Having raised children of my own...yeah...I made mistakes.
I could have been a better father....but there no instruction manuals.
Have my children suffered for my errors? not really.
I hope they were paying attention when I said....
OOOPS! won't let that happen again!

As for older people misbehaving....maybe they are still following their feelings.
Does that make them...satanists?

 

[.lava]

Well that isn't the case though, we don't know how to love, we just do, we don't know how to hate, we just do. Not everyone can assume the role of hate, and not everyone can assume the role of loving, but they are natural emotions. Just like guilt and remorse.


For example


I love my brothers and my girlfriend and family.
I hate the people that threaten their lives.

i think i get what you're saying. i am protective person too. i believe i am learning how to love. though i don't mean "to love more"; i mean "to love better". if i let myself drift in emotions i'd consider myself someone who's depend on others. it is expected to be hated when we hate. also expected to be loved when we offer love. people, i guess majority of people tend to give what they were given. so we are like slaves to each other, emotionally. in my own path i learned how to not hate but i could not manage to love whom i dislike very much. i just have a lack of love for them instead of hatred and it is sadly vast.

i can't endure watching my beloved ones getting hurt by someone else. i would try to protect them. but i don't expect myself to act upon hatred. i think any act could be done in a neutral way, perhabs without thinking.

The emotions we feel everyday are not learned. Well I mean I guess in a way they kind of are, as we grew up around it. But it is instinct. Just like a mother dog protecting and defending her pups. Its love towards them, hostility towards those that threaten.

well .. yea i don't have it either. i simply can't say "be my guest" if there was a physical attack. but still, defense could be done correctly without emotion. just like what you say about love. we don't know how to, we just do. so when time comes with a need of self defense, we just do it.

I don't know about you, but there is a few kids at my school that I just want to beat their faces in.

I don't know if you consider that hate, but I do.

i can't recall anything similar to that from my experiences. but for sure, there are hundreds of possibilities in this life that i haven't met and there are certain kind of men, i have never faced yet. to me hatred is a shallow emotion. i think when we hate, we enjoy destruction. but i would not want to destroy anything. it might happen only because i had no other choice. in other words, i would not make up excuses to hurt people. hate give people excuse to damage and destroy

.

 

[Orias]

Oh. I have a respectful question about your statement: "we (Satanism) represent freedom of mind..."

What exactly is the mind of a Satanist "free" from?

The restrains of religious tyrany. Though the mind is still oppressed by physical boundries.

"Free" to believe as it pleases? "Free" from its own delusions? Does the Satanic Mind see the world and everything with perfect crystal clear perception that it knows the mystery and mechanics of everything? Or is it still lost-trapped-imprisoned in the dark... grasping for meaning like every other Mind?

Free to believe as it pleases would be a decent way of putting it. Arrogance does come along with it, but we no one knows the mysteries and mechanics of everything. Most of us are capable of seeing nature for what it is though, and that is the common misconception. Though of course our mind is still trapped and imprisoned grasping for meaning, we just approach it in many different ways.

I also have a question about Satanism being a "carnal" religion.


Well of course it is a sensational, but it is not a religion. Well not in my perspective anyways. It is a way of life, I don't worship or believe in any dieties.

I understand that some brands of Satanism is atheistic-materialistic. And that such brands of satanism really love to rely on science and scientific discoveries to validate and back up their materialist (meaning devoid of supernatural and/or spiritual nonsense) weltanschauung.

There is a unfortunate possibility with running to science for validation. Especially with the rate at which science is progressing... the better technology and theories... and Quantum Mechanic.

Already mainstream science has curved back towards (not to) the realm of supra-materialism. By this I mean that with such current ideas/theories as subatomic quantum entanglement et all, the the implications of such, modern science is increasingly reflecting ideas it once rejected as being "spiritual hogwash."

That I find that very true, like the alternate dimensions and such. How can they say that there is 5 different types of parrallel universes and not a heaven or hell? They say our bodies have electrons in them and that electrons can be at more than one place at the same time. They admit to them being theories and all but they are really no different than the supernatural.

What will the carnal-materialistic brands of Satanism do... say 300 years from now when such implications matures into a deeper understanding of the Cosmos and Reality. Hypothetically: pretend that 300 years from now science figures out that their old materialistic cosmology and worldview was immature and that they have dis-covered there is more to reality... what will Satanism do? Will it continue to assert that its carnal-materialistic weltanschauung is right and be left behind the passisng of Time and Progression? Or will it evolve to keep up with Time and Progression of science and human understanding?

In a hypothetical biblical and scientific world a Satanic person would still be Satanic, they would just elvove with what they have.

If it will evolve... does this not imply that what is today understood to be "satanism" not entirely true and perfect and right?

You have to understand that if people truly believe in their faith or philosophy that it is true to them. Satanism is different to everyone and even other Satanists, but as Satanists most of us are perfectly aware that we are not perfect and not true to the eyes of others. But that doesn't matter to us. We live for ourselves and believe what we want.

If it is not true, perfect, and entirely right... then what exactly is the Satanic Mind "free" from essentially? Conviction is the state of mind when it is held convict in a prison of its own beliefs.

You seem to think that Satanists deny everything. I can accept what you say, and what you believe.

The Satanic mind is free from the trend and the flock of society. We are free from what others think, because we simply could care less. We have science now that says all these things and that religion is wrong, when I can accept both science and religion, but not follow either. The world doesn't care for me, I don't care for the world. It is my life, not theirs. If I want to believe in fluffy pink unicorns floating around then so be it, you would never convince me other wise because I want to believe in it. I'm not saying I do believe in fluffly pink unicorns floating around though .

And it is not a prison if you believe in it.

Now days the mind is not oppressed, it only is if you follow a faith. The physical embodiment of the mind however, is oppressed.

 

[SugaCubez352]

The Satanic mind is free from the trend and the flock of society.

Oh.

That is not unique. There are plenty of minds in the world who are freethinkers, and most would not see themselves as Satanic Minds... such as myself.

Here's another question I am curious about in regards to this Mind of a Satanist ...

Does the Satanic Mind define its beliefs (memes), or do beliefs (memes) define the Satanic Mind?

 

[Orias]

[/color]

i think i get what you're saying. i am protective person too. i believe i am learning how to love. though i don't mean "to love more"; i mean "to love better". if i let myself drift in emotions i'd consider myself someone who's depend on others. it is expected to be hated when we hate. also expected to be loved when we offer love. people, i guess majority of people tend to give what they were given. so we are like slaves to each other, emotionally. in my own path i learned how to not hate but i could not manage to love whom i dislike very much. i just have a lack of love for them instead of hatred and it is sadly vast.

You mistake drifting in emotions depending on others. I do love myself, and I depend on myself. I let the others affect me and the emotion I feel is caused by them, it doesn't mean I depend on them. I can stir emotions up by myself too.

I just think that hatred seems to drive the violence and protection level up way more when being attacked. So with hate it magnifies the adrenaline, giving you an even better reason to destory the enemy.

i can't endure watching my beloved ones getting hurt by someone else. i would try to protect them. but i don't expect myself to act upon hatred. i think any act could be done in a neutral way, perhabs without thinking.


You could think that, when the other person wouldn't care. Mercy shown is not always mercy given.

well .. yea i don't have it either. i simply can't say "be my guest" if there was a physical attack. but still, defense could be done correctly without emotion. just like what you say about love. we don't know how to, we just do. so when time comes with a need of self defense, we just do it.

Of course I know this, I grew up doing Tae Kwon Do. I was taught to fight emotion, when really if someone is trying to kill me I will let it out and they will get destroyed in the process. See the philosophy of Tae Kwon Do and Satanism seem to fight each other, but I have found a way to make them one.



i can't recall anything similar to that from my experiences. but for sure, there are hundreds of possibilities in this life that i haven't met and there are certain kind of men, i have never faced yet. to me hatred is a shallow emotion. i think when we hate, we enjoy destruction. but i would not want to destroy anything. it might happen only because i had no other choice. in other words, i would not make up excuses to hurt people. hate give people excuse to damage and destroy

.

Hate does give people an excuse to damage and destroy, but I would kill if someone threatend my life or my family. But I guess that is where you and I differ.

I don't know what it is like to kill someone and I hope I never find out. So I am not going to say I wouldn't have a problem with killing someone, because I have a problem with killing rats, and other animals haha.


All I was basically saying is acknowledge your emotions and what you feel, be it from the mistakes you make while feeling them or the gratifacation of accomplishment while feeling them. They all have things to teach. It is the job of you to understand that.

 

[Orias]

Oh.

That is not unique. There are plenty of minds in the world who are freethinkers, and most would not see themselves as Satanic Minds... such as myself.

Sure there is plenty of free minds out there, but I am speaking of the common society, not the Chosen Few. Of course, but I see all things as Satanic, even if you don't .

Here's another question I am curious about in regards to this Mind of a Satanist ...

Does the Satanic Mind define its beliefs (memes), or do beliefs (memes) define the Satanic Mind?

Nature defines the Satanic mind. All the names and lables out there that I see are all related to Satanism in my perspective, because not only does Satanism represent the freedom of the mind it represents Nature.

I hope you can see what I am saying. It is a very hard thing to explain...

 

[SugaCubez352]

Nature defines the Satanic mind.

I understand

"Nature defines the Satanic mind."

Nature also defines Natural Science, in the sense that it is the study of Nature in all its many forms that science is born...

Which brings us back to the question I asked earlier about the progression of science. When science - which studies Nature - learns that there is more to the material cosmos than the "carnal," and Everybody - the flock of society - believes this... will the Satanic Mind conform with science and the "flock of society" then?

 

[Orias]

I understand

"Nature defines the Satanic mind."

Nature also defines Natural Science, in the sense that it is the study of Nature in all its many forms that science is born...

Which brings us back to the question I asked earlier about the progression of science. When science - which studies Nature - learns that there is more to the material cosmos than the "carnal," and Everybody - the flock of society - believes this... will the Satanic Mind conform with science and the "flock of society" then?

I am glad you understand

No, Satan means Opposition or Advesary, we are always willing to challenge the knowledge of the past, present, and future.

We would learn of it's meanings surely. But there could be more than what is learned. As truth is always opposed, since people can think they learn of other non-materialstic things, but there is always the potential for more than what is known.

My view may differ from a Theistic Satanists though. As I am more Atheistic in supernatural beliefs.

 

[EtuMalku]

Satan derives from the Judaic word al-satan or ha-satan (who borrowed it from the Persians' Shaiten) meaning adversary. The word is used more as a descriptive noun or pronoun. A fallen tree preventing a husband from getting to his injured wife would be considered a tree of shaiten, more or less.

Shaiten did not become Satan until much later where Jewish sects / tribes particularly the Essenes who began referring to anyone not an Essene as the Shaiten (the Adversary). Still further on the Roman Christian church decided it was time to personify Shaiten into Satan and have Him become the scapegoat for all evil in the Christian world.

Many satanists are in my eyes, pragmatic atheists. Still other satanists I see as under the influence of the Abrahamic faiths and what their idea of Satan is.

Nature is the Egyptian word Neter(deity), it can be understood as the Natural Ordering of the Universe or what most conceive of as God/Divine.

I have found that many satanists are simply 'rebelling' against Christianity and misunderstanding the satanic word 'Indulgence' to mean "do whatever I want to".
Instead of being on a true LHP, they are in essence still on a RHP and atoning with a deity that was Abrahamic born.


EM

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Does the Satanic Mind define its beliefs (memes), or do beliefs (memes) define the Satanic Mind?

I for one don't think anyone can choose what they believe. Beliefs are the result of being convinced or unconvinced of things that you are exposed to. Attempts could theoretically be made to control ones beliefs through restricting exposure to things, but that is really easier said than done. In reality our current beliefs at any given time are a result of what we have been exposed to being filtered through our natural disposition.

 

[Orias]

The words of Satan's Serrated Edge and EtuMalku are very true.


But it goes the same way for other faiths, people claim to be of something they know nothing of.

Though I do have to admit, Christians bother me the most.

 

[Adramelek]

Oh. I have a respectful question about your statement: "we (Satanism) represent freedom of mind..."

What exactly is the mind of a Satanist "free" from?

Satanism represents Freedom of mind and will - is a good definition. I am a Satanist, but I am first and foremost a Setian, and as such I am personally convinced of the literal existence of the Prince of Darkness as a very real Entity. To me the Prince of Darkness or Set or Satan is the great Liberator of mankind, He who bequeathed to us the perfect freedom of mind and will, and such a gift can never be recalled. Freedom to forge our own destiny in life, freedom to follow the dictates of our own mind and will rather than knowing only our basist animal or natural instinct. It is through the Black Gift that humanity is able to define itself against the resistence of the Cosmic Stasis, as well as, our ability to perceive and understand nature in all its complexity and beauty. And it is also through our Set created psyche, through the force of mind and will (the Powers of Darkness) that mankind is able to confound the laws of nature to its whim, i.e. Magic.

A good representation of our perfect freedom is given in The Diabolicon through the "Statement of Belial":
"Hail, man, who shall bring to the end of the Universe the glory of thy Satanic Will! I am Belial, who bring to thee the third great key of Hell, by whose power ye shall confound all the laws of Heaven and Earth. Before thee shall chaos fall, and thou shalt wield for thyself the great mysteries of the macrocosmos. I speak to thee of that which is called the Black Magic. For it is true spawn of that great Black Flame which first brought thy (Free) Will to life in aeons past."

One of the definitions of the Name Set is the "Seperator", for it was He who set mankind apart and above all other creatures of the Earth making humanity the dominant species.

Forever in the Black Flame!
/Adramelek\

 

[Thief]

Satanism represents Freedom of mind and will - is a good definition. I am a Satanist, but I am first and foremost a Setian, and as such I am personally convinced of the literal existence of the Prince of Darkness as a very real Entity. To me the Prince of Darkness or Set or Satan is the great Liberator of mankind, He who bequeathed to us the perfect freedom of mind and will, and such a gift can never be recalled. Freedom to forge our own destiny in life, freedom to follow the dictates of our own mind and will rather than knowing only our basist animal or natural instinct. It is through the Black Gift that humanity is able to define itself against the resistence of the Cosmic Stasis, as well as, our ability to perceive and understand nature in all its complexity and beauty. And it is also through our Set created psyche, through the force of mind and will (the Powers of Darkness) that mankind is able to confound the laws of nature to its whim.

One of the definitions of the Name Set is the "Seperator", for it was He who set mankind apart and above all other creatures of the Earth making humanity the dominant species.

Forever in the Black Flame!
/Adramelek\

So how does this compare to Genesis...that God released Man upon the earth saying to him
'Go forth be fruitful and multiply....subdue the earth....'?

 

[Orias]

So how does this compare to Genesis...that God released Man upon the earth saying to him
'Go forth be fruitful and multiply....subdue the earth....'?

Do you see how Satanism reflects in everything?

 

[SugaCubez352]

Do you see how Satanism reflects in everything?

lol... maybe this thought-equation is backwards? It should be written like this: "Everything is reflected onto what I understand to be Satanism."

What if Everything that exists just IS... and one day not to long ago a small group of humans out of 7 billion just Superimposed their idea of "Satanism" ONTO Everything

That thought-equation is a one size fits all meme anyways, watch:

Do you see how [The Qur'an] reflects in everything?
Do you see how [God] reflects in everything?
Do you see how [Hinduism] reflects in everything?
Do you see how [Natural Science] reflects in everything?

This statement has a kernel of genuine insight to it though: it is the Mind that is the reflection of Everything. With our five senses the coherent information of the "objective world" is brought into our brains which then apprehends the second hand information. From that second hand information it constructs a "subjective world" based on its perception, level of understanding, and state of evolution.

The Mind in essence, because of the barrier of the 5 senses, is Never in direct contact with the "real world" outside of itself. The only world it knows is the one it build subjectively.

That "subjective world" is almost always contaminated with our own ideas, conceptualizations, interpretations, and superimpositions.

So, the Mind of a Satanist experiences and apprehends a subjective world which is "Satanic" in value and quality, and he assumes that the outside world beyond his Mind must also be colored and flavored in the same way.

Just as a Christian Mind, Buddhist Mind, Muslim Mind, or any Mind will do the same.

 

[Orias]

lol... maybe this thought-equation is backwards? It should be written like this: "Everything is reflected onto what I understand to be Satanism."

That is also a good way of putting it...but Satanism is the alpha, the driver behind all advancement.

What if Everything that exists just IS... and one day not to long ago a small group of humans out of 7 billion just Superimposed their idea of "Satanism" ONTO Everything


Everything that exists just is, except that Satanism is the broad view of life. Satanism is in religion, all religion as all religion is powerful and advocates the use of manipulation.

That thought-equation is a one size fits all meme anyways, watch:

Do you see how [The Qur'an] reflects in everything? Sure, the Qur'an limits and dictates belief. But Satanism does not.
Do you see how [God] reflects in everything? Sure, the human mind does reflect nature.
Do you see how [Hinduism] reflects in everything? Sure, it is a way of life, just like Satanism, the philosophy of philosophy.
Do you see how [Natural Science] reflects in everything? That is the definition of Satanism in my eyes.

This statement has a kernel of genuine insight to it though: it is the Mind that is the reflection of Everything. With our five senses the coherent information of the "objective world" is brought into our brains which then apprehends the second hand information. From that second hand information it constructs a "subjective world" based on its perception, level of understanding, and state of evolution.

Of course, but it is only second hand information if it isn't experienced, which Satanism is all about, experience.

The Mind in essence, because of the barrier of the 5 senses, is Never in direct contact with the "real world" outside of itself. The only world it knows is the one it build subjectively.

But the real world is inside the mind, because the mind holds a universe of itself. The mind is capable of knowing more than itself, for we know of stars and are capable of reading facial expressions.

That "subjective world" is almost always contaminated with our own ideas, conceptualizations, interpretations, and superimpositions.

Of course it is, everyone percieves different. It is our job to accept the ambivalance of nature. You said almost, when there is laws of physics, the real world.

So, the Mind of a Satanist experiences and apprehends a subjective world which is "Satanic" in value and quality, and he assumes that the outside world beyond his Mind must also be colored and flavored in the same way.

Of course, but its not an assumption if it is an evident truth of ones belief.

Just as a Christian Mind, Buddhist Mind, Muslim Mind, or any Mind will do the same.

You lable the Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, and Satanic minds, when it is all just perception. It is just the mind, and it is capable of doing the same, but we are on a whole different level. But a christian mind or a buddhist mind or a muslim mind won't admit that Satanism is the driving force behind life, because they will think that their religion is the driving force behind it. Yet they will still disagree with Satanism, in that it's philosophy is wrong, when Satanism is the philosophy of philsophy. As every religion has it's own form of Satanism that they like to blame things on.

All those religious minds you listed will believe that their religion is the driving force of the world...but what do they think of Satanism? I can accept that all religion is the driving force behind the world, in the sense that Satanism is the world.