Satanists denied opening prayer for the third time in Boston.

[IndigoChild5559]

Just keep your prayer where it belongs and you won't have to worry about baloney. Believers do not own the public spaces any more than others do. You seem to think that belief gives people a special privilege. It doesn't. Sometimes the only cure is to rub people's noses in their own hypocirsy.

Ahhhhh so here we have the REAL agenda. You don't want any prayer by anyone. So your strategy is to irritate those who want prayer by introducing farcical prayers and lies by groups who don't believe in God. Shame on you.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It can be. But it is not necessarily the case:

Definition of invocation


1a: the act or process of petitioning for help or supportspecifically, often capitalized : a prayer of entreaty (as at the beginning of a service of worship)

This is the definition tat we are using -- a prayer.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I can't add anything Subduction Zone didn't cover.
And we've already been over this.
Prayers are not the only "open rituals" of sorts. And not all religions pray.

You can check my reply to him. We are using the definition of invocation that is a prayer.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You can check my reply to him. We are using the definition of invocation that is a prayer.

No, you are working with this definition. You and the Christians who are having a hard time removing the concept prayer from an opening religious ritual and constantly using the word prayer and insisting it must be a prayer.

It can be. But it is not necessarily the case:

Definition of invocation


1a: the act or process of petitioning for help or supportspecifically, often capitalized : a prayer of entreaty (as at the beginning of a service of worship)
b: a calling upon for authority or justification
2: a formula for conjuring : INCANTATION
3: an act of legal or moral implementation : ENFORCEMENT

Definition of INVOCATION

But even in the first definition it is not necessarily a prayer. And many theists use it as definition 2.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ahhhhh so here we have the REAL agenda. You don't want any prayer by anyone. So your strategy is to irritate those who want prayer by introducing farcical prayers and lies by groups who don't believe in God. Shame on you.

The prayers of others are no more farcical than yours. In fact the prayers of Satanists are often far more respectful than those of the Abrahamic religions.

The simple fact is that prayer does not belong everywhere. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is the definition tat we are using -- a prayer.

It does not specify a prayer. Unless you are talking about definition number two in that link.

 

[74x12]

It does not specify a prayer. Unless you are talking about definition number two in that link.

So you're saying they don't even want to pray? Just conjure something? So then where is the unfairness?

Why do they get to sue? Everyone else wants to pray but they want to conjure ... I don't see why they get to conjure anything. No one else wants to conjure that I know of.

 

[kiwimac]

In a secular democracy either all or none.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So you're saying they don't even want to pray? Just conjure something? So then where is the unfairness?

Why do they get to sue? Everyone else wants to pray but they want to conjure ... I don't see why they get to conjure anything. No one else wants to conjure that I know of.

The unfairness is either it has to be open to all groups or to no groups at all.

This is not hard to understand.

 

[74x12]

The unfairness is either it has to be open to all groups or to no groups at all.

This is not hard to understand.

No one else is asking to incant or conjure that I know of.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No one else is asking to incant or conjure that I know of.

It really isn't this hard to understand.
We've been over this a bunch of times now. Their invocation is more like a chant. It's not a prayer, it's not conjuring anything, and it is one of the many ways people conduct religious ceremonies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No one else is asking to incant or conjure that I know of.

So no prayers being done.

Okay.

 

[Wrangler]

That Satan in the OT is a fiercely loyal and obedient angel of god.

What verse says that?

 

[Wrangler]

Because the topic is about non-theistic Satanists.

This is contradictory, like non-theistic believers in God.

 

[Wrangler]

The fact is these city halls hold prayer because it pleases the majority of the citizens of that city.

That's not a good enough reason.

That the majority want something IS good enough and called religious liberty.

 

[Wrangler]

The devil is a Christian invention who never appears until the NT.

And this invalidates the role of the devil/Satan in history?

In re-reading Genesis, what impressed me was how God chose to reveal himself. For instance, he did not lay out the 10C for centuries. Saint Paul write how Jesus is a mystery for the ages finally revealed.

Given these facts, it's funny to read you proclaim some arbitrary standard to act as a god yourself.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is contradictory, like non-theistic believers in God.

Not really. People do not have to believe in a god. Even if they believe in an actual Satan that is not necessarily a belief in a god.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And this invalidates the role of the devil/Satan in history?

In re-reading Genesis, what impressed me was how God chose to reveal himself. For instance, he did not lay out the 10C for centuries. Saint Paul write how Jesus is a mystery for the ages finally revealed.

Given these facts, it's funny to read you proclaim some arbitrary standard to act as a god yourself.

He actually read and understood the Bible. And no, people do not set an "arbitrary standard". Just because you may lack understanding of a standard does not make it arbitrary. At least no more arbitrary than your standards are.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is contradictory, like non-theistic believers in God.

Only if you believe such a dichotomous thing.
I don't. Nature itself is just not black and white.

That the majority want something IS good enough and called religious liberty.

Nope. The majority may want to silence someone for forcing their views. The Constitution promises the person they want silenced can free voice the offending view.
Like burning the American flag. The majority don't like it, and a great many want it banned. But it's my Constitutional

And this invalidates the role of the devil/Satan in history?

There is no such force acting in history. Humans are humans. No devils or gods required.

In re-reading Genesis, what impressed me was how God chose to reveal himself. For instance, he did not lay out the 10C for centuries. Saint Paul write how Jesus is a mystery for the ages finally revealed.

There's nothing really interesting about that.
The interesting thing is Jesus said not to believe those who came after him and claim to speak in his name. Paul is exactly this, and he frequently contradicts Jesus. And he tends to take precedence over Jesus in many Christian circles.

Given these facts, it's funny to read you proclaim some arbitrary standard to act as a god yourself.

In many cultures we find figures who stole from the gods and gave humanity knowledge and wisdom and enabled us to do the things that make us human, like art and science. The gods didn't want this for us. Because it makes us like them. And those like Prometheus and Lucifer suffer eternally on our behalf, for setting us free.

What verse says that?

There is nothing in the OT to even suggest Satan is evil or opposed to god. The Rebellion has a serpent. There is nothing until the NT to suggest this serpent is Satan, and Satan is an adversary of god.

 

[Aštra’el]

He actually read and understood the Bible.

“Understood”. No. More like, “interpreted”. The same applies to everyone else who has ever read the Bible.