Satanists denied opening prayer for the third time in Boston.

[Subduction Zone]

That's just a bit of a misreading.
Or misrepresentation if it's deliberate.

It is a logical conclusion. When challenged in court public meetings have never been the private property of one religion and prayers of only one group or the exclusion of a group is not allowed. If one wants to exclude a group then courts have to decide to eliminate the discriminatory action. I merely analyzed the results of her wishes.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is a logical conclusion. When challenged in court public meetings have never been the private property of one religion and prayers of only one group or the exclusion of a group is not allowed. If one wants to exclude a group then courts have to decide to eliminate the discriminatory action. I merely analyzed the results of her wishes.

Her wishes were to only see this denied to certain groups, not all groups.
More the usual trend of "freedom of religion means freedoms only for religions I approve of."

 

[Subduction Zone]

Her wishes were to only see this denied to certain groups, not all groups.
More the usual trend of "freedom of religion means freedoms only for religions I approve of."

And I pointed out that limiting specific groups is not allowed either. By trying to prevent any group from being there the result is that all groups have to be denied that privilege.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And I pointed out that limiting specific groups is not allowed either.

As did I. But she still only expressed desire for restrictions against atheist groups.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As did I. But she still only expressed desire for restrictions against atheist groups.

Yes, and that is clearly not kosher.

 

[74x12]

It's only called opening prayer because of traditional norms,
And, ideally, it's best left to the "none at all," because it's a silly fracus to have it to begin with once we start allowing them all.
But it has shown us where many stand on freedom of religion. Clearly many don't actually believe in it or support, save for when it favors their own personal beliefs.

That's what this is all about. Traditional norms which most people are fine with bother people like Lucien Greaves and his ilk so they want to wear black robes and cowls and make prayer tradition into a joke so everyone agrees it's time to end the tradition.

Basically, TST couldn't be more insincere in their desire to chant some invocation to satan they apparently don't even believe is a real being.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's what this is all about. Traditional norms which most people are fine with bother people like Lucien Greaves and his ilk so they want to wear black robes and cowls and make prayer tradition into a joke so everyone agrees it's time to end the tradition.

Traditional norms are never worth upholding for their own sake. And it's not even about that. It's about the Constitution, and the First Amendment rights and restrictions that place an "all of nothing" requirement in the public sphere, and how Christians don't want to honor this.
And the only one who has a problem with anything are you Christians and other theists who ridicule those you don't agree with. Don't deny it. It's all these past eight pages. The Satanic Temple is not asking for anyone to be excluded. They aren't the ones being disrespectful.

Basically, TST couldn't be more insincere in their desire to chant some invocation to satan they apparently don't even believe is a real being.

What amazes me, as AFTER I've been pointing out how very rude you people are being, you still precede with being a judgemental arse.
You aren't even trying to learn. You aren't even trying to understand.

 

[74x12]

Traditional norms are never worth upholding for their own sake. And it's not even about that. It's about the Constitution, and the First Amendment rights and restrictions that place an "all of nothing" requirement in the public sphere, and how Christians don't want to honor this.
And the only one who has a problem with anything are you Christians and other theists who ridicule those you don't agree with. Don't deny it. It's all these past eight pages. The Satanic Temple is not asking for anyone to be excluded. They aren't the ones being disrespectful.

Well should we allow militant atheists to pray to spaghetti monster at city hall?

This is taken from Lucien Greaves wiki page

In an interview, Greaves describes how the idea for The Satanic Temple was conceived. Greaves and his colleagues envisioned The Satanic Temple as a “poison pill” in the Church/State debate.

I'm 100% correct. They could careless about making an invocation at city hall. They just want to shut everyone else's prayer down.

What amazes me, as AFTER I've been pointing out how very rude you people are being, you still precede with being a judgemental arse.
You aren't even trying to learn. You aren't even trying to understand.

Why are you taking this so personally? I think people like you probably take their tenets more seriously than they do themselves.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well should we allow militant atheists to pray to spaghetti monster at city hall?

This is taken from Lucien Greaves wiki page



I'm 100% correct. They could careless about making an invocation at city hall. They just want to shut everyone else's prayer down.

Why are you taking this so personally? I think people like you probably take their tenets more seriously than they do themselves.

Yes, they ultimately wanted to shut down prayer. And yes, if they let Christians pray to their made up God they also have to allow Pastafarians to pray to Quob. You can see how silly prayer is when people pray to Quob. You should try a little introspection here. The city hall is not owned by any one religion. Best to ban them all. You cannot allow in just a select few.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well should we allow militant atheists

What, pray tell, is a militant atheist?

pray to spaghetti monster at city hall?

'Tis their right. It does nothing more or less than a Christian prayer.

They just want to shut everyone else's prayer down.

That's actually a very good thing, because there should be no religious influence in government.
It tends to not go well for others.

I'm 100% correct. They could careless about making an invocation at city hall.

You are still wrong, as you assume that's all they do.

Why are you taking this so personally?

Because people are bashing something that I adhere to (I even put off considering joining the Satanic Temple and did join them).

I think people like you probably take their tenets more seriously than they do themselves.

I'll I'm doing is pointing out Christian hypocrisy, the very same hypocrisy the Satanic Temple has demonstrated at the state level.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What is lying? What is a lie?

This isn't like an Abrahamic religion where one offers prayers up to a deity. Many religions don't have prayer, but something that roughly is kind of similar as a means to an end.
People keep saying prayer, but it's kind of like calling a meditative chant a prayer.
Constitutionally, if this opening ceremony is to occur it cannot be restricted to prayer. It's only called opening prayer because of traditional norms,
And, ideally, it's best left to the "none at all," because it's a silly fracus to have it to begin with once we start allowing them all.
But it has shown us where many stand on freedom of religion. Clearly many don't actually believe in it or support, save for when it favors their own personal beliefs.

What is praying. Praying is talking to God. If you don't believe in God, then you are only pretending to talk to God, which is a lie, or you are not actually praying, which is a farce.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Why? You may not realize it but you just advocated ending all prayer. That would be fine with me.

Praying is talking to God. If one doesn't believe in God, then one is only pretending to pray, which is a lie, or one is not praying at all, which makes it a complete farce.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Praying is talking to God. If one doesn't believe in God, then one is only pretending to pray, which is a lie, or one is not praying at all, which makes it a complete farce.

It is still pretending even if one does believe. So though not a lie it is still a falsehood. And of course it is a complete farce either way. There are places where prayer belongs and where it does not. If it is a farce for the Satanists it is a farce for others.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What is praying. Praying is talking to God. If you don't believe in God, then you are only pretending to talk to God, which is a lie, or you are not actually praying, which is a farce.

That is not true for all religions. It is only true for religions that insist it must be that way.
And, again, for the billionth time, the Satanists did not pray. They held an invocation.
So go bark up another tree.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It is still pretending even if one does believe. So though not a lie it is still a falsehood. And of course it is a complete farce either way. There are places where prayer belongs and where it does not. If it is a farce for the Satanists it is a farce for others.

that is just so much baloney. don't bother talking to me if you can't be honest about things.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That is not true for all religions. It is only true for religions that insist it must be that way.
And, again, for the billionth time, the Satanists did not pray. They held an invocation.
So go bark up another tree.

An invocation is an opening prayer.

 

[Subduction Zone]

that is just so much baloney. don't bother talking to me if you can't be honest about things.

Just keep your prayer where it belongs and you won't have to worry about baloney. Believers do not own the public spaces any more than others do. You seem to think that belief gives people a special privilege. It doesn't. Sometimes the only cure is to rub people's noses in their own hypocirsy.

 

[night912]

America's Christian culture is under assault. A main avenue of attack is what I call THE PERVERSION OF EQUALITY. Satanism is as opposed to Christian principles as you can get. The very EXACT opposite of liberty is embracing Satanism. Name one society based on the principles of Satanism in all of human history.

At first I thought you meant Romans 13.

Romans 13
1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

Apparently you prefer to do as Romans do and do as your God tells you to do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

An invocation is an opening prayer.

It can be. But it is not necessarily the case:

Definition of invocation


1a: the act or process of petitioning for help or supportspecifically, often capitalized : a prayer of entreaty (as at the beginning of a service of worship)
b: a calling upon for authority or justification
2: a formula for conjuring : INCANTATION
3: an act of legal or moral implementation : ENFORCEMENT

Definition of INVOCATION

But even in the first definition it is not necessarily a prayer. And many theists use it as definition 2.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

An invocation is an opening prayer.

I can't add anything Subduction Zone didn't cover.
And we've already been over this.
Prayers are not the only "open rituals" of sorts. And not all religions pray.