Satanists denied opening prayer for the third time in Boston.

[Messianic Israelite]

Satanic Temple Sues Boston Over Opening Prayer Policy

I'd rather see no prayer in government institutions, but am not against traditional practices.

I do side with the Satanists that it is religious discrimination solely on the basis they are not aligned with Abrahamic doctrines.


Otherwise I think the policy should end.

Should they be allowed opening prayer?

I think so.

My knee jerk reaction is to say the worship of Satan should not be allowed. But I believe in freedom of religion. The problem is, Satanism is based off the Bible and the Bible clearly tells us what Satan is - a liar, an enemy of things good and true and a murderer.

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof."

Satanism is based on the Bible as Satan is described in the Bible. So how can we tolerate a religion that tells us that Satan is evil and allow people to worship him? I'm not American, I'm British, but when the American Founders promised freedom of religion they certainly didn't have in mind this. It's true the first amendment to the U.S. Constitution says that everyone in the United States has the right to practice his or her own religion, or no religion at all. But I wonder sometimes how people could make such a mockery of the Bible by choosing to pray to the arch enemy of Yahweh.

You have to remember that according to the Bible, if Yahshua would have given in to the temptation Satan put before him, Yahshua would have not been our Messiah and we would have no salvation. Satan tried to get Yahshua to worship him in Matthew 4 and Luke 4, promising him the kingdoms of the world, saying:

"7 If thou therefore wilt worship before me, it shall all be thine."

but Yahshua faithfully refused. So to have people willingly worship Satan is very obnoxious to those who revere Yahshua and His perfect sacrifice.

 

[74x12]

They didn't pray. They did an invocation.
Religious rituals don't have to make sense to you to be valid or serious.

You should probably look up the meaning of invocation.

 

[Father Heathen]

My knee jerk reaction is to say the worship of Satan should not be allowed. But I believe in freedom of religion. The problem is, Satanism is based off the Bible and the Bible clearly tells us what Satan is - a liar, an enemy of things good and true and a murderer.

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof."

Satanism is based on the Bible as Satan is described in the Bible. So how can we tolerate a religion that tells us that Satan is evil and allow people to worship him? I'm not American, I'm British, but when the American Founders promised freedom of religion they certainly didn't have in mind this. It's true the first amendment to the U.S. Constitution says that everyone in the United States has the right to practice his or her own religion, or no religion at all. But I wonder sometimes how people could make such a mockery of the Bible by choosing to pray to the arch enemy of Yahweh.

You have to remember that according to the Bible, if Yahshua would have given in to the temptation Satan put before him, Yahshua would have not been our Messiah and we would have no salvation. Satan tried to get Yahshua to worship him in Matthew 4 and Luke 4, promising him the kingdoms of the world, saying:

"7 If thou therefore wilt worship before me, it shall all be thine."

but Yahshua faithfully refused. So to have people willingly worship Satan is very obnoxious to those who revere Yahshua and His perfect sacrifice.

No, Satanism is not based on the Bible. Satan is symbolic.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You should probably look up the meaning of invocation.

2: a formula for conjuring : INCANTATION

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You should probably look up the meaning of invocation.

I know what it means.
"Our father, daily bread, lead us not into temptation, the "model prayer," to the "pinata god" of very many Christians is foreign to many religions. They sometimes have rough approximations. Such as if a Wiccan were to do the opening ritual, it would be called casting a spell. For various monks it would be a chant.
And invocation is a word that perhaps you should look up, as it can have secular usage. As in invoking a feeling or mindset towards a common goal.
It's really not anyone's position to judge the rituals of another's religion. Criticizing religion is one thing, but judging and ridiculing are another thing. And guess what, it makes you more like me, particularly the part of harsh ridicule towards certain religions (Scientology, for example, is a target of mine), and not caring what others might think (The Latter Day Church is another example, but that one is more personal) .

 

[74x12]

2: a formula for conjuring : INCANTATION

That's not invocation. Invocation is a prayer.

 

[74x12]

I know what it means.
"Our father, daily bread, lead us not into temptation, the "model prayer," to the "pinata god" of very many Christians is foreign to many religions. They sometimes have rough approximations. Such as if a Wiccan were to do the opening ritual, it would be called casting a spell. For various monks it would be a chant.
And invocation is a word that perhaps you should look up, as it can have secular usage. As in invoking a feeling or mindset towards a common goal.
It's really not anyone's position to judge the rituals of another's religion. Criticizing religion is one thing, but judging and ridiculing are another thing. And guess what, it makes you more like me, particularly the part of harsh ridicule towards certain religions (Scientology, for example, is a target of mine), and not caring what others might think (The Latter Day Church is another example, but that one is more personal) .

I ridicule the TST and other similar groups because their whole purpose in life is to oppose Christianity. I don't really think they have a broader purpose.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I ridicule the TST and other similar groups because their whole purpose in life is to oppose Christianity. I don't really think they have a broader purpose.

More strong judgements from those commanded to judge not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's not invocation. Invocation is a prayer.

That is invocation. It is where I got the definition from.

Definition of INVOCATION

Invocation is not just a prayer. And technically a prayer is an attempt to do magic by pleading to God.

 

[Ponder This]

Satanic Temple Sues Boston Over Opening Prayer Policy

I'd rather see no prayer in government institutions, but am not against traditional practices.

I do side with the Satanists that it is religious discrimination solely on the basis they are not aligned with Abrahamic doctrines.


Otherwise I think the policy should end.

Should they be allowed opening prayer?

I think so.

Am I reading this right? All the Satanists have to do is get a single councilman to invite them to say the opening prayer? But none of the councilmen will invite a Satanist to say it?

As any one of them could invite whoever he wanted to say the Opening Prayer... the problem appears to be that none of the councilmen, Christian, or atheist, or whatever wants a Satanist to speak on his behalf?

So the Satanists are suing in order to force the state to establish a Satanic Opening Prayer?

An interesting religious challenge...
There have been multiple state legislatures that have allowed non-Abrahamic Opening Prayers. In general, the process for various legislatures is, generally, the same for all, one of the representatives invites someone of his choosing to speak. In fact, Satanic Opening Prayers have already been given in some states. There's been at least one Spaghetti Monster Opening Prayer. There have been a number of Jewish Prayers, Muslim Prayers, and Hindu prayers. I think the Satanists are going to be hard pressed to show how a system that allows a speaker from any religion to give Opening Prayers is somehow discriminating against them.

It's entirely possible that some crucial detail has been left out of the story. After all, in Alaska, legislation was passed to discriminate after someone from a Satanic Temple was chosen to give the Opening Prayer. The legislation involved redefining what counted as a religious organization so as to exclude the Satanic Temple. The ACLU filed a lawsuit and won. And the Satanic Opening Prayer was given in Alaska. So it's possible that some religious discrimination has occurred in Boston and the story has failed to sufficiently elucidate what that was. As it stands, unless I missed something, it looks like all that has to happen is that a single councilman invites the Satanic Temple to give an Opening Prayer.

So... why didn't the Satanic Temple ask specific councilmen to invite them? They've been told three times that the council as a whole does not accept requests from anyone. And this process in Boston looks to be about the same as the process used most everywhere in the U.S. So... What gives? Are they just salty? Or was there some additional effort made to discriminate against them? If so, what was it?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Am I reading this right? All the Satanists have to do is get a single councilman to invite them to say the opening prayer? But none of the councilmen will invite a Satanist to say it?

As any one of them could invite whoever he wanted to say the Opening Prayer... the problem appears to be that none of the councilmen, Christian, or atheist, or whatever wants a Satanist to speak on his behalf?

So the Satanists are suing in order to force the state to establish a Satanic Opening Prayer?

An interesting religious challenge...
There have been multiple state legislatures that have allowed non-Abrahamic Opening Prayers. In general, the process for various legislatures is, generally, the same for all, one of the representatives invites someone of his choosing to speak. In fact, Satanic Opening Prayers have already been given in some states. There's been at least one Spaghetti Monster Opening Prayer. There have been a number of Jewish Prayers, Muslim Prayers, and Hindu prayers. I think the Satanists are going to be hard pressed to show how a system that allows a speaker from any religion to give Opening Prayers is somehow discriminating against them.

It's entirely possible that some crucial detail has been left out of the story. After all, in Alaska, legislation was passed to discriminate after someone from a Satanic Temple was chosen to give the Opening Prayer. The legislation involved redefining what counted as a religious organization so as to exclude the Satanic Temple. The ACLU filed a lawsuit and won. And the Satanic Opening Prayer was given in Alaska. So it's possible that some religious discrimination has occurred in Boston and the story has failed to sufficiently elucidate what that was. As it stands, unless I missed something, it looks like all that has to happen is that a single councilman invites the Satanic Temple to give an Opening Prayer.

So... why didn't the Satanic Temple ask specific councilmen to invite them? They've been told three times that the council as a whole does not accept requests from anyone. And this process in Boston looks to be about the same as the process used most everywhere in the U.S. So... What gives? Are they just salty? Or was there some additional effort made to discriminate against them? If so, what was it?

Do you really think it is that simple? The rules that they have in place are discriminatory. They tried to spread the blame around, but it is still a discriminatory practice which makes it unconstitutional and even goes against Boston's own laws:

The Salem-based group, which has lodged freedom of religion challenges nationwide, said Tuesday that the council's policy for its opening prayer is discriminatory and unconstitutional because it does not permit prayer from every religious organization that wishes to deliver one.


The Satanic Temple, in its federal lawsuit filed last week, argues that the council policy violates the city's public accommodations statute, which states that any place serving a public function is entitled to protection from discrimination. It also violates the U.S. Constitution’s Equal Protection Clause, which it argues guarantees all religions an equal opportunity to participate in free-speech forums.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Here are the words to the invocation.

Let us stand now,
unbowed and unfettered
by arcane doctrines
borne of fearful minds in darkened times.
Let us embrace the Luciferian impulse
to eat of the Tree of Knowledge
and dissipate our blissful
and comforting delusions of old.
Let us demand
that individuals be judged for their concrete actions,
not their fealty to arbitrary social norms
and illusory categorizations.
Let us reason our solutions
with agnosticism in all things,
Holding fast only to that which is demonstrably true,
Let us stand firm against any and all arbitrary authority
that threatens the personal sovereignty of One or All.
That which will not bend must break,
and that which can be destroyed by truth
should never be spared its demise.
It is Done. Hail Satan.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here is the words to the invocation.

Wait a second, where is the urging to eat babies and sacrificing virgi . . . oops, this is Boston. Forget that last part.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Satanic Temple Sues Boston Over Opening Prayer Policy

I'd rather see no prayer in government institutions, but am not against traditional practices.

I do side with the Satanists that it is religious discrimination solely on the basis they are not aligned with Abrahamic doctrines.


Otherwise I think the policy should end.

Should they be allowed opening prayer?

I think so.

The Satanic Temple is an atheist organization. I think prayer should be led by an organization that actually believes in God.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Satanic Temple is an atheist organization. I think prayer should be led by an organization that actually believes in God.

There is no such Constitutional requirement, and it's only right and most fair the general interpretation is it has to be an all or nothing thing.
Best it be nothing and people do that on their own time, but we tend to not have that in many places so we have to allow the all.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

There is no such Constitutional requirement, and it's only right and most fair the general interpretation is it has to be an all or nothing thing.
Best it be nothing and people do that on their own time, but we tend to not have that in many places so we have to allow the all.

It doesn't make any sense to have someone lie. Again, if you are going to have someone pray, it should be someone who actually believes in God.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It doesn't make any sense to have someone lie.

What is lying? What is a lie?

Again, if you are going to have someone pray, it should be someone who actually believes in God.

This isn't like an Abrahamic religion where one offers prayers up to a deity. Many religions don't have prayer, but something that roughly is kind of similar as a means to an end.
People keep saying prayer, but it's kind of like calling a meditative chant a prayer.
Constitutionally, if this opening ceremony is to occur it cannot be restricted to prayer. It's only called opening prayer because of traditional norms,
And, ideally, it's best left to the "none at all," because it's a silly fracus to have it to begin with once we start allowing them all.
But it has shown us where many stand on freedom of religion. Clearly many don't actually believe in it or support, save for when it favors their own personal beliefs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Satanic Temple is an atheist organization. I think prayer should be led by an organization that actually believes in God.

Why? You may not realize it but you just advocated ending all prayer. That would be fine with me.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Satanism is based on the Bible as Satan is described in the Bible.

And here we have another judging Satanism while simultaneously making it extremely obvious they don't know anything about Satanism.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why? You may not realize it but you just advocated ending all prayer. That would be fine with me.

That's just a bit of a misreading.
Or misrepresentation if it's deliberate.