Satanists who aren't Setians, Luciferians who aren't Satanists, etc.

[Desert Snake]

The WLHP simply describes an overarching set of religious ideologies that came to popularity with LaVey. As these groups evolved some engaged in historical research and discovered many similarities in old religions that had been suppressed to to being at odds with the overall cultures. Setian religion is one of these. Sure a priest of Set from predynastic Egypt might not agree with everything we think of Set today, but we have a whole lot more information to go on than them as well. An evolution does not imply a perversion. Ancient to modern Setianism is an evolution, Judaism to Christianity is a perversion.

A. Crowley and his cohorts would be a much more apt approximation at who brought certain ''lhp''/ i don't like these labels,, concepts to popularity. Especially in a broad description, which is what you are presenting as an argument. ''Satanism'' being different from ''occult'', in meaning, anyway. //one is specific, one is far more general

 

[1137]

A. Crowley and his cohorts would be a much more apt approximation at who brought certain ''lhp''/ i don't like these labels,, concepts to popularity. Especially in a broad description, which is what you are presenting as an argument. ''Satanism'' being different from ''occult'', in meaning, anyway. //one is specific, one is far more general

I'm not entirely sure I understand, but Crowleyan philosophy is classic mystical monism with a goal of Union. This is not the WLHP.

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm not entirely sure I understand, but Crowleyan philosophy is classic mystical monism with a goal of Union. This is not the WLHP.

Then you are outright implying that

''Setian'' religion, or religious listing, is only because of LaVey? That would be what you are arguing, if you are making the argument that the ''WLHP' is because of LaVey. Notice as well that i did not specify in my original question, 'TOS' members.

Merely trying to clarify what you are stating/arguing

 

[1137]

Then you are outright implying that

''Setian'' religion, or religious listing, is only because of LaVey? That would be what you are arguing, if you are making the argument that the ''WLHP' is because of LaVey. Notice as well that i did not specify in my original question, 'TOS' members.

Merely trying to clarify what you are stating/arguing

Partially correct. Something like the ToS would not have started without LaVey, but also has launched academic studies into the historical Set.

 

[Desert Snake]

Partially correct. Something like the ToS would not have started without LaVey, but also has launched academic studies into the historical Set.

You are implying that Setian basically means 'TOS', in a religious sense, then. If Setian means something aside from TOS, then your argument doesn't work. It's fine to have that opinion, however, you haven't just stated it, as far as i know.

 

[Sutekh]

As far as the Setian relation to the ''WLHP'' /I don't like these general labels, but that aside,, obviously the ''WLHP'', would be related to Setian or Egyptian religion from a perspective that isn't ''western''.

The WLHP is that of Satanism, Luciferianism, Setianism etc. The WLHP is not necessarily related to the Egyptian religion the WLHP is related to many things.

 

[1137]

You are implying that Setian basically means 'TOS', in a religious sense, then. If Setian means something aside from TOS, then your argument doesn't work. It's fine to have that opinion, however, you haven't just stated it, as far as i know.

I clearly used the ToS as an example, not an overall source of truth in some way. Without the ToS there would be few Setians if any, at least identified that way. Those Setians, affiliated or not, then launched objective studies like an esoteric college.

 

[Desert Snake]

I clearly used the ToS as an example, not an overall source of truth in some way. Without the ToS there would be few Setians if any, at least identified that way. Those Setians, affiliated or not, then launched objective studies like an esoteric college.

You still didn't answer the question. And if TOS isn't an ''overall source of truth'', then why are you using it instead of merely saying 'Setianism'. It seems obvious that that is actually what you are arguing, because your certainly implying it.

If you mean 'TOS', when you write 'Setian' , then why not just specify that? And unless you think that LaVey started the actual Setian religion /egyptian religion,, then it clearly would not be ''WLHP''. According to your own arguments.

 

[1137]

You still didn't answer the question. And if TOS isn't an ''overall source of truth'', then why are you using it instead of merely saying 'Setianism'. It seems obvious that that is actually what you are arguing, because your certainly implying it.

If you mean 'TOS', when you write 'Setian' , then why not just specify that? And unless you think that LaVey started the actual Setian religion /egyptian religion,, then it clearly would not be ''WLHP''. According to your own arguments.

I'm having a hard time following your line of thought. Academics agree that LaVey, theistic Satanism, Luciferianism, Setianism, and other religions with similar ideologies are all "Satanism", they all stem from LaVey's original movement. This certainly doesn't make them all equal, and does nothing to diminish the historical work done by Setians and other Satanists. However, without the Temple of Set there would not have been such a resurgence into Setian ideology, but again this does not imply that all Setians and their studies now fall under the ToS. The WLHP and this academic definition of Satanism are identical.

 

[crossfire]

I'm having a hard time following your line of thought. Academics agree that LaVey, theistic Satanism, Luciferianism, Setianism, and other religions with similar ideologies are all "Satanism", they all stem from LaVey's original movement. This certainly doesn't make them all equal, and does nothing to diminish the historical work done by Setians and other Satanists. However, without the Temple of Set there would not have been such a resurgence into Setian ideology, but again this does not imply that all Setians and their studies now fall under the ToS. The WLHP and this academic definition of Satanism are identical.

Satanism and Luciferianism are like Night and Day, respectively, whereas the ToS is more interested in the two horizons? Have I got that correct? (Is this a metaphor that will tie all three together?)

 

[1137]

Satanism and Luciferianism are like Night and Day, respectively, whereas the ToS is more interested in the two horizons? Have I got that correct? (Is this a metaphor that will tie all three together?)

That is an interesting metaphor. I think Setianism is simply a little more focused of a system. We'll agree on many more things in that DIR than many others, despite often having seemingly radically different views. It takes from both where the other two contrast, so perhaps I do agree with the metaphor. Especially if Setianism is the nighttime sky, rather than between the horizons of day

 

[Ahanit]

please excuse my short interrruption of you discussion but There may be an interesting fact:

The WLHP began in the 1900s if not the 1960s.

The oldest Ritual which was definite WLHP as we define it today was the Ritual from Königsberg and was held around 1520

Only the name is new not the path itself .....
The name and its definition was, when I remembered right, introduced by Blavatsky and her circles

 

[1137]

please excuse my short interrruption of you discussion but There may be an interesting fact:

The oldest Ritual which was definite WLHP as we define it today was the Ritual from Königsberg and was held around 1520

Only the name is new not the path itself .....
The name and its definition was, when I remembered right, introduced by Blavatsky and her circles

Sure there were groups here and there that rose up, but it never took off as more than independent cults or romantic Satanism before 1966.

 

[Adramelek]

I am first and foremost a Setian, but I also consider myself a Satanist as Satanism was my introduction to the path and is a part of my heritage. I also consider myself a Luciferian as I work with certain aspects of that Principle in my own understanding of it. I was introduced to this forum by a ToS member over 7 years ago because of the Setian DIR. When I first joined there were quite a few ToS Setians posting here, but not anymore. 1137, Ahanit, Etu Malku, Onyx, and myself seem to be the only current active Setians or former ToS on RF.

The Temple of Set is a philosophy and a religion, and the ToS is a "Satanic" religious institution fully recognized by the United States government with tax exempt status. Members of the Priesthood of the Temple of Set, for instance, can be licensed to preside over weddings. As for the term "Setianism", some years ago there was a discussion in the ToS about the legitimacy of this term. The majority, including me, concluded that with all the "isms" out there, the term "Setian philosophy" is more appropriate, but it is really up to the individual.

 

[Quagmire]

***Mod Post***
Thread moved to Interfaith Discussion.​

 

[JesusChrist.expert]

Please excuse me when I ignore Sirius Star, but I find no sense in the posts...
To the original Question:
I am Setian, I studied Satanism and Luciferian Like I have studied, Wicca and druidism and Gnosticism and Hermetic and Kabballa and.........
I am only Setian because the Setian Concept is the one who has included the entirity of Magik with a mythologie Basic I confirm with my own beliefs.
It combines Magic, Sience, Intellect. Who want to be Setian has to Study, to work, to use his Intellect.

My friend, you are being deceived and don't even know it. The Bible refers to Lucifer as Satan over and over again. This created being is the origin of all evil and is working hard to keep you deceived. There is nothing good about him. The One you seek is Jesus, who is the Creator of everything and everything that is Good. There is no evil in Him. He cannot lie and He cannot sin. For more information, go to http://www.jesuschrist.expert/origin/

 

[JesusChrist.expert]

Are you a Satanist who isn't a luciferian, a setian who isn't a Satanist, so forth.

The Bible is very clear when it refers to Lucifer as Satan. This created being is the author of every evil and is working very hard to keep you deceived. The One you seek is Jesus. He is the Creator of the universe and is everything Good. He cannot lie and He cannot sin. Jesus has given you the gift of love to choose Him or not. For more information, go to http://www.jesuschrist.expert/origin/. Jesus loves you with a love that no-one else can equal. he loves you even in your deception and is calling you home.

 

[crossfire]

The Bible is very clear when it refers to Lucifer as Satan. This created being is the author of every evil and is working very hard to keep you deceived. The One you seek is Jesus. He is the Creator of the universe and is everything Good. He cannot lie and He cannot sin. Jesus has given you the gift of love to choose Him or not. For more information, go to http://www.jesuschrist.expert/origin/. Jesus loves you with a love that no-one else can equal. he loves you even in your deception and is calling you home.

Please quote this "very clear" scripture. Thank you.

 

[Onyx]

The Bible is very clear when it refers to Lucifer as Satan. This created being is the author of every evil and is working very hard to keep you deceived. The One you seek is Jesus. He is the Creator of the universe and is everything Good. He cannot lie and He cannot sin. Jesus has given you the gift of love to choose Him or not. For more information, go to http://www.jesuschrist.expert/origin/. Jesus loves you with a love that no-one else can equal. he loves you even in your deception and is calling you home.

Be careful with the proselytizing, it's against the rules here.

 

[JesusChrist.expert]

Please quote this "very clear" scripture. Thank you.

Isaiah Chapter 14: 12-20
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! howart thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee,saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and asthe raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Revelation 12: 1-12
1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.