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Saudi Arabia Considering Retrial/Beheading of Raif Badawi

Should the US pressure Saudi Arabia to release Raif Badawi?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 80.0%
  • No

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Other (Explain)

    Votes: 1 10.0%

  • Total voters
    10

gsa

Well-Known Member
I actually voted other, because I'm not sure if US pressure is going to do anything except show such foreign pressure is useless in this.

Well, we'll never know unless we try. If we try and fail, then we know that the assurances of our political leadership are bogus and that we are not making any headway with the reform of KSA human rights violations. If we succeed, we know that we can help drag them into the 20th century, at least.
 

morphesium

Active Member
I can't believe you said that :(


I am really sorry I said that. It was because it is so much hurting me. For me Raif Badawi is an innocent man just like you - and he has to undergo a 1000 lashes for practically no crime. I said much of Muslim because Saudi Arabia is not letting him go free (even though it might be only the ruling/religious aristocrats that is sticking to his punishment).
"It shows how uncivilized and cruel the followers of Allah and Mohammed are" - with this I was referring to those who punished Raif Badawi. (They are supposed to be the most tolerant people - but they are doing just the opposite).
If I was considering people like you and If all the Muslims were like you, I will only be happy if the whole world turns to Muslim .

I just wish Raif Badawi be freed from these torturing.
I am sorry it hurted you. Forgive me. wishing to see you smiling always.



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Reactions: gsa

gsa

Well-Known Member
Isn't Raif Badawi punished with lashing and 10 years in jail for this.


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Indeed, he is being punished for speaking his mind. And not in any particularly offensive or cruel or insensitive way (not that it would make a difference)
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
I am really sorry I said that. It was because it is so much hurting me. For me Raif Badawi is an innocent man just like you - and he has to undergo a 1000 lashes for practically no crime. I said much of Muslim because Saudi Arabia is not letting him go free (even though it might be only the ruling/religious aristocrats that is sticking to his punishment).
"It shows how uncivilized and cruel the followers of Allah and Mohammed are" - with this I was referring to those who punished Raif Badawi. (They are supposed to be the most tolerant people - but they are doing just the opposite).
If I was considering people like you and If all the Muslims were like you, I will only be happy if the whole world turns to Muslim .

I just wish Raif Badawi be freed from these torturing.
I am sorry it hurted you. Forgive me. wishing to see you smiling always.

Don't worry about it.

I edited my post.
 

morphesium

Active Member
Islam doesn't teach violence.
For some Islam doesn't teach violence. but for others it is a different story. There is much funding and training for terrorism through Islamic channels. Else how is it there are supporters of Isis on almost all countries where there are Muslims.
If Islam was peaceful, such incidents would not have taken place.

95% of world terrorism are done by Muslims who contribute 23% to world population. This makes, on an average, a Muslim to be 65 times more violent than an average non-Muslim.


If Islam was peaceful, Muslim population shouldn't contribute any more than 1.5 percent of present day world terrorism.

Just because a few peaceful people embrace Islam peacefully doesn't mean the whole Muslim population embrace it peacefully. It is action that speaks the truth and it is not favoring ISLAM.

Comparing Muslim of today to the real Islamic world during the middle ages then yes, today they are primitive and way far from what Islam is.

It is and it will drift further and further. God doesn't need the help of books or prophets to talk to us. if it is god who created you (us), that you are one of the gods glorious creations, then god has given his message to each one of us and we were born with it - it is inherent to us. Our sense of morality, our subconscious feeling to be/do good is our true god sent message. No other religion can claim this- for they all came to us externally after we were born. This is the best way for god to give us freewill without interfering with us, The best way god can talk to us without showing himself. This is the biggest proof that your (our) religion is not god sent. I believe one is closer to god without religion than with religion.


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morphesium

Active Member
So what if one did, Al Razi did it already in the 10th century while the Islamic world were under the Shariah law, he authored a book criticizing religion.

Al-Razi directed his most vehement attack against the holy books in general, including the Qur'an, because he saw them as illogical and self-contradictory. He also believed that all human beings were equal in their intellectual capacities as they were in all other things. It made no sense therefore that God should single out one individual from among them in order to reveal to him his divine wisdom and assign him the task of guiding other human beings. Furthermore, he found that prophets' pronouncements and stories often contradicted those of other prophets. If their source was divine revelation as is claimed, their views would have been identical. The idea of a divinely-appointed mediator was therefore a myth.

When Islamic atheism thrived | Amira Nowaira | Comment is free | The Guardian
Thanks for this article. Al-Razi

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FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
For some Islam doesn't teach violence. but for others it is a different story. There is much funding and training for terrorism through Islamic channels. Else how is it there are supporters of Isis on almost all countries where there are Muslims.
If Islam was peaceful, such incidents would not have taken place.

95% of world terrorism are done by Muslims who contribute 23% to world population. This makes, on an average, a Muslim to be 65 times more violent than an average non-Muslim.


If Islam was peaceful, Muslim population shouldn't contribute any more than 1.5 percent of present day world terrorism.

Just because a few peaceful people embrace Islam peacefully doesn't mean the whole Muslim population embrace it peacefully. It is action that speaks the truth and it is not favoring ISLAM.

Do you think world wars were due to Islam ?


It is and it will drift further and further. God doesn't need the help of books or prophets to talk to us. if it is god who created you (us), that you are one of the gods glorious creations, then god has given his message to each one of us and we were born with it - it is inherent to us. Our sense of morality, our subconscious feeling to be/do good is our true god sent message. No other religion can claim this- for they all came to us externally after we were born. This is the best way for god to give us freewill without interfering with us, The best way god can talk to us without showing himself. This is the biggest proof that your (our) religion is not god sent. I believe one is closer to god without religion than with religion.

If God will guide us all then why he needs to test us at first place, earth is the test place to pick up the good ones.
 

morphesium

Active Member
Do you think world wars were due to Islam ?
definitely no. I am talking about the terrorist acts that is taking place at (otherwise) peaceful times - not at war times.


If God will guide us all then why he needs to test us at first place, earth is the test place to pick up the good ones.
Our morale is definitely tempting to guides us the right way - but how many can listen to it? Not all people listen to their moral for there are many factors that compel people to take decisions against their morale. (what if this is a test? A true test and possibly the best test? I believe so).









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FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
definitely no. I am talking about the terrorist acts that is taking place at (otherwise) peaceful times - not at war times.

Terrorism isn't a religion, warplanes are a terror machines, do you think they made the war planes to send gifts and food for humans ?

Our morale is definitely tempting to guides us the right way - but how many can listen to it? Not all people listen to their moral for there are many factors that compel people to take decisions against their morale. (what if this is a test? A true test and possibly the best test? I believe so).

Yes of course morals and that is what religion is all about, good deeds and live in peace.
 

morphesium

Active Member
I can't believe you said that :(

I have some more to say here; about a simple incident that happened approximately 15 years back.
On this particular day as i was reading the news paper, I went through an article about 4 robbers who were caught and has done a serious of crimes (4 or 5 burglaries). One of the burglars name coincided with my name. And the article went on to mention his (my) name four or five times narrating his actions in the various crimes. I haven't seen my name (even my name) associated with such crimes before and it did hurt me badly.

If this is the case with me, I know my posts definitely hurts many innocent Muslim/other religious people - perhaps much more (or less) than I can imagine since it varies from one individual to the other. Just like the author of the article couldn't make the article without mentioning my name, I often can't make the article post without saying so.

More over, Just imagine how sorrowful Allah (The Great One/ The Most Merciful), Prophet Mohammed (MPBUH) would be if someone or a group of people does some serious of outrageous crimes and says " Its in the name of Allah / Prophet Mohammed we do this " and Allah /Prophet Mohammed should be pleased with such acts.

Additionally, When people do crimes in the name of religion, there is the victim side and their loved ones; How could they attribute a holiness for these God(s), Prophet(s) when they are tortured mentally and physically in their name? I believe, these questions should have the same answers in you , me and every one who values our moral side . So need not answer me unless of course you wan't to.

Edited this to add one more point- I target every religion - not just mine or yours; if i see something morally unacceptable.


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morphesium

Active Member
Terrorism isn't a religion, warplanes are a terror machines, do you think they made the war planes to send gifts and food for humans ?



Yes of course morals and that is what religion is all about, good deeds and live in peace.

Yes, morals. Now let me talk a bit about the nature of our morals.

The good thing about morale is that it is always one step ahead of us. So , listening to your morale makes you better and even better. In effect, it will keep on polishing oneself. Hence, I believe morale can guide one. What greater message (individually tailored message), - can God give us. . As ones morale polishes oneself individually, collectively it is the society that eventually gets polished; so is social justice- it gets polished; so is social laws - it gets polished. That is the reason why social injustice like slavery, inhumane laws etc that were once much prevalent and legal in our societies are now illegal and abandoned.

Now, let me talk a bit about religion;

Most religion is often credited to an exceptional Person. They take people or society from dark ages and enlighten them. Unfortunately just like ordinary people these great ones also die. So laws that were made are kept as such. Not (never) to be changed at all. Often a “God part or holiness” is amended to it over time for a much greater voice. Then existing scientific proofs are added to give it more credibility. Money, power and politics take their share on it. Rituals and practices make it imprinted on those who practice it. This is how a typical religion is formed.

The problem with religion is that it resists change – not only because it is habitualized, but also out of fear; fear of the religious heads; fear of the God itself. This is where the problem is. The society around them progresses. But what about the religious sect – it is tied back to their old ages. Even if their morale is asking for a change, they won’t out of fear, out of the feeling that their holy books can never go wrong – after all it is god sent, how can it be wrong and they reasons and opt not to change.


(For this I am taking the example of the case with halal meat. Modern science has methods to kill an animal in the most humane way- killing the brain or making the animal unconscious with a shock and then butchering it (if it is the intentions of Prophet Mohammed that is to be valued, then this is Halal meat now). What about the animal that has to undergo halal butchering – it has to suffer much more pain. Back in those old days, it was the best possible method; drain as much blood as possible which ensures that the animal has been killed before it is butchered. But how can one accept it is the best method available now.) Similar is the case with slavery, child marriages.







So, the rules of religion is static or fixed whereas our moral refines itself again and again.

so if ones religion says something and our morals say other, which one would you follow?











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