Saudi school lessons in UK concern government

[kai]

It will always be a sin and a punishable crime till judgment day unless we have abandoned our religion.

If the ruler would go by the book, he should order the one who had done sodomy to be killed, but in some other circumstances he can choose a more mild punishment like imprisonment, lashes, etc.

Thanks TashaN it was as i thought.

 

[arimoff]

It will always be a sin and a punishable crime till judgment day unless we have abandoned our religion.

If the ruler would go by the book, he should order the one who had done sodomy to be killed, but in some other circumstances he can choose a more mild punishment like imprisonment, lashes, etc.

Who gave you the right to judge others by your book? those who you claim should be punished live by a different book so who said you're book is right and theirs is wrong?

who told you that your book is right? how much of a brain do you need to realize that everybody has their own truth? you don't see me come and force you to anything what the Torah says so how can you make an argument with facts from a book that is nothing more to me then a toilet paper?

just as to you Torah is a corrrupted book so as to me your prophet was a pedophile who copied his ideas from Judaism and changed them but yo don't see me forcing it unto you, same for X-tianity they think his god you think he something else but who's right who's wrong? what gives you the right to force what your book says unto those who don't give a crap about your book? do homosexuals force their agenda on you or Islam? no they don't so leave them alone. I am personally not a fan of homosexuals and I do believe it corrupts society but I will never take the streets against them speak out against them go against them or make violance against them because like I said before everybody has their own truth so if you believe in G-D let Him judge them, don't judge or you will be judged.

 

[Panda]

Secular system is an idea, then it developed into a law. Sharia law was an idea then it been developed into a law.

Secular is a way that allows people of many different faiths to live together in peace without the state interfering in their religious beliefs or allowing religion to interfere with the state.

Secular system have been founded by people. Sharia law was founded by God.

All non Muslims would disagree and say it was founded by Man as well.

Secular system says there must be a separation between religion and state affairs, but Sharia law says there must be NO separation between religion and state affairs.

Then Sharia is not nor will it ever be welcome in the West.

So, what do you want to know now?

Is it why Muslims don't just abandon their Sharia law and adopt secular law?

If people move to a country and aren't happy with the laws there why would they move there?

 

[kai]

Then Sharia is not nor will it ever be welcome in the West.

I agree but it then begs the question is Islam welcome in the west? or does it have to be welcomed with a strange kind of westernised castrated sharia?

 

[Panda]

I agree but it then begs the question is Islam welcome in the west? or does it have to be welcomed with a strange kind of westernised castrated sharia?

Islam is welcome provided it does not try to interfere with the way we already run things and it does not try to impose itself onto our legal system.

 

[beenie]

I don't have the "us" versus the "west" mentality as you claim, but i'm merely giving an example of countries who claim to adopt secular laws. What's the problem with that?

i must have misinterpreted your post, sister. i apologize; it's easy to misunderstand the written word rather than a face-to-face conversation.

Now i get it. Your whole argument is based on the idea that there is a civil crime and a moral "spiritual" crime. Civil crime is not related to morality in any way, and it's created and governed by people, so it should be punished. On the other hand, what has been condemned by God should be treated as a moral "spiritual" crime that is not punishable because it's up to God to do so, not us.

Am i right in interpreting your views?

yes, this is what i believe. i believe this only when it comes to religious laws that are personal and individual (they don't harm others when broken). for instance, whether i wear a hijab or not doesn't harm anyone (at a civil level) but myself (on a spiritual level which is up to Allah to decide). does that clarify more?

 

[kai]

Islam is welcome provided it does not try to interfere with the way we already run things and it does not try to impose itself onto our legal system.

hmmm so we welcome people with a creed that is not welcome?

 

[beenie]

hmmm so we welcome people with a creed that is not welcome?

yes. we allow the KKK members to live in our society as long as they don't break our laws, don't we?

 

[kai]

yes. we allow the KKK members to live in our society as long as they don't break our laws, don't we?

do we ? i dont know if its a legal organisation in the UK. I think its banned here

 

[Panda]

hmmm so we welcome people with a creed that is not welcome?

It is welcome as long as they only apply it to themselves. I don't understand why they think their religious beliefs should apply to everyone?

 

[beenie]

oh, i'm in the US; i didn't know where you were.

 

[Bismillah]

The Europeans are a bit more stingy when it comes to freedom of speech I think.

 

[kai]

It is welcome as long as they only apply it to themselves. I don't understand why they think their religious beliefs should apply to everyone?

Because god has given you the right to submit or not and all Muslims have submitted and should strive for a society under gods law,

Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. (An-Nahl: 125)

Its the way of most religions to proselytise the "right" path

 

[TashaN]

Secular system was based of and developed by the western world witch during all the years of its development was religious.

By what G-D? as far as history is showing sharia law was based on the Torah law but due to the aggressive nature of the creators and followers sharia law is the violent version.

Do you want to bet what is more violent, the Torah or the Quran?

everybody has their own truth.

I totally agree.

I want to know what kind of excuse would you provide for teaching kids that Jews are apes and pigs is it also just history?

I don't recall anything in Islam that says Jews are apes and pigs. Care to share your source?

It is because they don't know better, when you teach a kid since his birth that its ok to blow your self up he won't have a problem doing it.

Again, please share with us any source in Islam which says blowing yourself up is a good thing.

who told you that your book is right? how much of a brain do you need to realize that everybody has their own truth?

Same goes for you.

 

[TashaN]

i must have misinterpreted your post, sister. i apologize; it's easy to misunderstand the written word rather than a face-to-face conversation.

It's alright. No need to apologize sister, and hey, i'm a brother.

yes, this is what i believe. i believe this only when it comes to religious laws that are personal and individual (they don't harm others when broken). for instance, whether i wear a hijab or not doesn't harm anyone (at a civil level) but myself (on a spiritual level which is up to Allah to decide). does that clarify more?

My dear sister, don't you think that the idea of the separation between religion and other affairs are a pure secular idea?

I don't recall anything in Muslim history which state that there are two types of laws, spiritual and civil. Can you please help me to find some examples since the time of Prophet Mohamed till now of such a thing?

I would really appreciate it.

 

[TashaN]

Thanks TashaN it was as i thought.

You are most welcome.

Secular is a way that allows people of many different faiths to live together in peace without the state interfering in their religious beliefs or allowing religion to interfere with the state.

All non Muslims would disagree and say it was founded by Man as well.

Then Sharia is not nor will it ever be welcome in the West.

That's not for you to say. You can't strip citizens out of their identity and kick them out of the country just because you don't like their religion.

If people move to a country and aren't happy with the laws there why would they move there?

Sheesh! Muslim citizens don't have as much rights as you to practice their right to voice their opinion as an act of free speech?

It seems to me that the West is not secular, after all.

 

[TashaN]

Because god has given you the right to submit or not and all Muslims have submitted and should strive for a society under gods law,

Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. (An-Nahl: 125)

Its the way of most religions to proselytise the "right" path

Exactly. The same when politicians proselytize for their own right path.

 

[kai]

It's alright. No need to apologize sister, and hey, i'm a brother.



My dear sister, don't you think that the idea of the separation between religion and other affairs are a pure secular idea?

I don't recall anything in Muslim history which state that there are two types of laws, spiritual and civil. Can you please help me to find some examples since the time of Prophet Mohamed till now of such a thing?

I would really appreciate it.

If i may TashaN


kanun


The Ottomans: Katun

 

[TashaN]

If i may TashaN

kanun

The Ottomans: Katun

That was really interesting. Thanks kai.

Though, that doesn't address my post, or maybe i should elaborate?

What i meant was that, i didn't see Muslims using two different laws, civil "punishable" and spiritual "not punishable" and treat both as part of Shariah law or call it islamic. All Muslim nations who used the Kanun or adopted secular laws don't call their system islamic, but they call it as it's, either secular, kanun, etc.

 

[kai]

That was really interesting. Thanks kai.

Though, that doesn't address my post, or maybe i should elaborate?

What i meant was that, i didn't see Muslims using two different laws, civil "punishable" and spiritual "not punishable" and treat both as part of Shariah law or call it islamic. All Muslim nations who used the Kanun or adopted secular laws don't call their system islamic, but they call it as it's, either secular, kanun, etc.

Thanks for the clarification