Saudi school lessons in UK concern government

[Sahar]

they are my thoughts, period. why are you questioning my opinion so much?

This is one of the weirdest things I have ever read here. What you called "questioning your opinion" I understand as having a debate. This is what we do here. Now if we are Muslims, when you voice a different view, the other Muslims will ask for your evidence for that view and/or they will provide evidence from the Qur'an and/or the Sunnah that leads to another conclusion. For example; if a Muslim came here and said that niqab is obligatory....he will have to provide the evidence that supports this, and those who believe that niqab is not obligatory will also provide their evidence that weaken the first opinion and so on.
And this is how it should be when any Muslim follows a certain view. The Muslim before anything follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet.

Seeking the help of the scholars doesn't mean we are illiterate or we don't have brains. It means that I am honest enough to acknowledge that I have lack of knowledge in that field, so I seek the help of those who are more knowledgeable. Just like my knowledge about say economics is weak, so I'll ask the specialists. Every field has its specialists and we seek their help because they are qualified. Why should religion be any different? Why when it comes to religion, we want every one to be an expert although a lot of them people express unbelievable ignorance.
Once, I saw someone who didn't know how to fast but amazingly it formulated opinions on Al-Bukhari and his collections of hadith and how Sahih Al-Bukhari is unreliable. Someone who didn't know ABC Islam, spoke about a delicate science like that of al hadith. How come?!
When I lack knowledge, I go to those who have it...this is the wise action but when I don't have the knowledge and claim that I am not in need for the opinion of the specialists, this is far away from being wise...

The other thing, Muslims should advise each other and help each other to reach the right path.

i am quite literate and i am very capable of having my own opinions; i don't rely on scholars much these days, especially when it comes to these topics. i don't live in a shari'a based country.

why do people think we Muslims all have to think exactly alike? the Qur'an has many interpretations, and i have a hard time believing our Prophet would condone about 99.9999% of our behavior these days. we have taken a lot of flexibility and respect for others out of our religion.

The Qur'an has many interpretations about what? If we said so, this doesn't mean there are no basics or this doesn't mean any one should voice opinions from his vain desire. Our opinions should be consistent with the Qur'an and if it appeared to some that they are inconsistent then we will show that they are consistent by citing ayats and hadiths....and have a discussion...etc.

I notice that you don't like to see your opinions and views being challenged. When people ask us to back up our opinions, it is not an insult, on the contrary. This happens all the time here and in many other discussions.

ssainhu, I hope you don't get mad at me, I like you so much...but I disagree with you on this.

 

[Darkness]

why do you think a court has to deal with homosexuals at all SO LONG AS THEY'RE NOT HARMING PEOPLE? i don't know what God wants; i asked if YOU think God wants us to punish harmless people.

why do people think we Muslims all have to think exactly alike? the Qur'an has many interpretations, and i have a hard time believing our Prophet would condone about 99.9999% of our behavior these days. we have taken a lot of flexibility and respect for others out of our religion.

But you're a sane person. We had another radical Muslim on here a while back, who thought that homosexuals seek to infect others with AIDS, just because they are evil.

 

[beenie]

This is one of the weirdest things I have ever read here. What you called "questioning your opinion" I understand as having a debate. This is what we do here. Now if we are Muslims, when you voice a different view, the other Muslims will ask for your evidence for that view and/or they will provide evidence from the Qur'an and/or the Sunnah that leads to another conclusion. For example; if a Muslim came here and said that niqab is obligatory....he will have to provide the evidence that supports this, and those who believe that niqab is not obligatory will also provide their evidence that weaken the first opinion and so on.
And this is how it should be when any Muslim follows a certain view. The Muslim before anything follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet.

Seeking the help of the scholars doesn't mean we are illiterate or we don't have brains. It means that I am honest enough to acknowledge that I have lack of knowledge in that field, so I seek the help of those who are more knowledgeable. Just like my knowledge about say economics is weak, so I'll ask the specialists. Every field has its specialists and we seek their help because they are qualified. Why should religion be any different? Why when it comes to religion, we want every one to be an expert although a lot of them people express unbelievable ignorance.
Once, I saw someone who didn't know how to fast but amazingly it formulated opinions on Al-Bukhari and his collections of hadith and how Sahih Al-Bukhari is unreliable. Someone who didn't know ABC Islam, spoke about a delicate science like that of al hadith. How come?!
When I lack knowledge, I go to those who have it...this is the wise action but when I don't have the knowledge and claim that I am not in need for the opinion of the specialists, this is far away from being wise...

The other thing, Muslims should advise each other and help each other to reach the right path.
The Qur'an has many interpretations about what? If we said so, this doesn't mean there are no basics or this doesn't mean any one should voice opinions from his vain desire. Our opinions should be consistent with the Qur'an and if it appeared to some that they are inconsistent then we will show that they are consistent by citing ayats and hadiths....and have a discussion...etc.

I notice that you don't like to see your opinions and views being challenged. When people ask us to back up our opinions, it is not an insult, on the contrary. This happens all the time here and in many other discussions.

ssainhu, I hope you don't get mad at me, I like you so much...but I disagree with you on this.

of course i'm not mad at you. i'm not mad at anyone, to be honest.
my point is that in this case of "how to handle" homosexuals there is no clear evidence as to "punishment" of them; it's vague about repentance, etc.. when i try and research it, i get different answers, so i'm not really giving an Islamic perspective answer (because i honestly don't know what the true answer is). rather, i am giving my opinion on what i feel instead, based on what i have asked and researched. lewd acts in public will have ramifications (but i don't see that as execution)...but private acts, well, that's a whole other matter entirely.

the most rational answer i have received was from a local scholar, who said that as long as there is no harm to another person, it's God's decision to make.

Sahar, it's ok to disagree with me. it doesn't make either of us lesser than the other.

 

[TashaN]

What gives you this impression? I didn't notice Panda expressing this view. Should I ask the Muslim Student Association at my college, or the Islamic community center downtown, or the Muslim boys choir I saw singing Islamic songs at the park, whether they have free speech? Ask the people who responded to the thread about what it's like being Muslim in the U.S. if there are special restrictions on Muslim free speech.

Didn't you smell the "go back to your country" sentiment in his post?

 

[Panda]

Didn't you smell the "go back to your country" sentiment in his post?

That wasn't my point at all Tashan you know me better than that.

I have no problem with 99.99% of immigrants, the ones who adjust to life here and form a key part of our society and culture. I have no time for people like the BNP who think all immigrants should go away.

My point was quite simply why do people move to a country who they see as "evil" or think that their laws are all wrong? For example I would never move to Iran or North Korea because I do not agree with their laws or society.

 

[Panda]

I didn't see these text books so i don't know what does it say. Does it say Sharia should be implemented in the UK and that Jews are evil? You have read it yourself?

The program had them teaching that homosexuals should be killed and Jews are evil. That is what I am arguing against nothing more.

I really wish if someone could give us passages from that book, because we can't judge it based on just what the media have said. Media is full of projection and exaggeration.

The program is on iPlayer which shows the actual textbooks. Link here

I disagree with their methods of teachings and the content and context of these text books and i was just wondering how was what they did would over night change the law in UK from a secular to an Islamic one. Again, we don't know these books and we have not read them.

We do know the books they were filmed on the show.

I am not arguing against Islam or the Quaran. I am arguing only over teaching children that homosexuals should be killed or teaching them to hate specific minorities.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Didn't you smell the "go back to your country" sentiment in his post?

I do smell that sentiment, and I don't like it. Instead of concluding Muslims don't have free speech or the UK government is not secular, I would ask Panda about his apparent "go back to your country" sentiment.

 

[England my lionheart]

Ah but England the Quran isnt the law here either.

Spinkles has it right though no one really takes those passages seriously any more. And if there was a school promoting that point of view i am sure it would be viewed the same as the Islamic ones.

Yes it would,just as we should expect

 

[England my lionheart]

The Quran is not the law there either. Your point?

My point is we are secular so we no longer tollerate hate speech whether its from the Sharia, Bible, Quran or the Wheeltappers and Shunters Trade Union,the Bible or Quran do not carry any authority here and people or organisations must adhere to our Laws,Laws which this School has breached.

 

[kai]

My point is we are secular so we no longer tollerate hate speech whether its from the Sharia, Bible, Quran or the Wheeltappers and Shunters Trade Union,the Bible or Quran do not carry any authority here and people or organisations must adhere to our Laws,Laws which this School has breached.

the wheel tappers and shunters ? order! order! now then!

 

[England my lionheart]

the wheel tappers and shunters ? order! order! now then!

Lol,they can become militant at the local social club

 

[Nobody]

I think the British government has been pretty clear in the message it gives out. Inciting hatred and violence against someone because of their race/religion/gender/sexuality is unacceptable, unless it is justified by unfounded superstition and the people doing so are likely to throw a childish tantrum when not getting what they want. It is pathetic, I'm ashamed of my country.

 

[LeftishBritInPA]

As a British person myself, I'm ashamed that my country tolerates such savagery and intolerance. It's common sense that intolerance should never be tolerated, but apparently the British government doesn't have much common sense these days.

 

[England my lionheart]

As a British person myself, I'm ashamed that my country tolerates such savagery and intolerance. It's common sense that intolerance should never be tolerated, but apparently the British government doesn't have much common sense these days.

I agree but when only 40%ish of the population vote its no surprise that common sense isn't represented.

 

[Yerda]

What the heck is going on in this country?

Fear of standing on anyone's toes or alienating faith votes?