Saved to what end?

[FunctionalAtheist]

The very will of man is turned against God, we deserve Hell, eternal punishment for our sin, not mere petty crime but yes, rebellion against God.

And here it is folks; the no. 1 reason why christianity is a pathetic excuse for a model for living. We are all worthless and deserve to burn in hell.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..I would make a world where he doesn't have to suffer in order to be a good person.

All very hypothetical .. our nature is as it is .. we have to deal with REALITY..
There are exams and they have consequences .. we are not robots

 

[Nietzsche]

All very hypothetical .. our nature is as it is .. we have to deal with REALITY..
There are exams and they have consequences .. we are not robots

Perhaps you misunderstand. I am using all this of an argument against the God of Abraham. I cannot and will not believe in such a fickle deity.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

And here it is folks; the no. 1 reason why christianity is a pathetic excuse for a model for living. We are all worthless and deserve to burn in hell.

Being dead in our sins, yeah, it doesn't seem so great. But being made alive in Christ, set free from our slavery to live according to the Spirit is a wonderful model for living, living as lights of the world to spread Christ's love and salvation.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Perhaps you misunderstand. I am using all this of an argument against the God of Abraham. I cannot and will not believe in such a fickle deity.

I don't think I misunderstand ..
You wish to replace 'the god of Abraham' with 'your own version'

 

[Nietzsche]

Being dead in our sins, yeah, it doesn't seem so great. But being made alive in Christ, set free from our slavery to live according to the Spirit is a wonderful model for living, living as lights of the world to spread Christ's love and salvation.

There are those of us who do not feel the need to belittle ourselves in spiritual masochism.

 

[Nietzsche]

I don't think I misunderstand ..
You wish to replace 'the god of Abraham' with 'your own version'

I wish to replace the God of Abraham with anything else. Preferably a god who doesn't treat those he supposedly cares for like an abusive father or husband.

 

[AllanV]

Saved to what end? To be immortal beings that is living forever.

Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

With the divine nature and being energized by god a person will be able to live for ever.

Every one living has the nature of Adam and he developed human spirit and this brings death. Human spirit is self empowerment through a flawed personality.

 

[Ingledsva]

The very will of man is turned against God, we deserve Hell, eternal punishment for our sin, not mere petty crime but yes, rebellion against God.

Slave and Master, mentality.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

Well the flip side would be very harsh......no judgment.

A line must be drawn.
Otherwise, all that lives on the earth will find it's way into heaven.
Heaven would then be no different than earth.
Chaos in this life....chaos in the next.

I believe the peace of heaven is guarded.
Not all of us belong there.
I suspect.....strongly suspect......
wherever you draw the line....THAT line determines who leads.....who follows.

Or perhaps you prefer eternity....standing alone?

AGAIN - why would a supposedly all-knowing God require this impossible role of imperfect humans?

I don't believe, if a God were real, he would be that ridiculous.

*

 

[AllanV]

AGAIN - why would a supposedly all-knowing God require this impossible role of imperfect humans?

I don't believe, if a God were real, he would be that ridiculous.

*

The leadership has gone in the wrong direction. But the people place leaders there that say things they want to hear.

 

[JustWondering]

Lets quickly examine the Abrahamic god belief system from my perspective. If the Abrahamic god were real than it would be the source of all evil and suffering that exists. To escape this suffering you need to knell before Zod (god) and he'll make the hurting stop. Seems to me like this god craves obedience and worship more than anything else and is willing to inflict horrific suffering on his creations to get it. The god of the bible when viewed objectively by a unbeliever is a vile, manipulative, narcissistic, violent, sociopath. What type of being requires someone to be tortured to death so that people can worship it in an attempt to avoid its wrath. That type of being does not value love or freewill in its slaves. When Christians speak of how loving and kind god is I cannot help but think that they've read a different bible than the one I've read.

 

[catch22]

Not all religions preach salvation. Why does a person need to be saved? From what does a person need to be saved? How can a person be saved?

You have the option to be saved from death. A person can be saved from dying in their sin by believing in Jesus Christ and the gift of salvation through His sacrifice.

My position is that I'm just as good as any other, and there is nothing you can do that makes you more worthy. So how can one elevate themselves to the status of saved?

You can position yourself however you'd like; men have done it since forever I suppose. You don't elevate yourself. You humble yourself before God, who can forgive your sin, and bless you with everlasting life. It's really up to you on if you will accept that or not. You are given the choice.

 

[Ingledsva]

You have the option to be saved from death. A person can be saved from dying in their sin by believing in Jesus Christ and the gift of salvation through His sacrifice.



You can position yourself however you'd like; men have done it since forever I suppose. You don't elevate yourself. You humble yourself before God, who can forgive your sin, and bless you with everlasting life. It's really up to you on if you will accept that or not. You are given the choice.

This idea that ALL people commit sins disserving of death - is just BULL!

*

 

[Nooj]

I still refuse to be judged by that standard. You cannot give me a task you know I cannot even hope to complete and then punish me for failure. I did not fail, God failed by giving us a task he knew was impossible.

what is humanly impossible is possible with the help of god.

the funny thing is that we cannot even hope to begin a task without the aid of god, let alone complete it without his help. god gives us the commandment to love, and then he gives us the love to love, that is, he is the love with which and in which we love, and without god, there would be no love. he gives us a task that we cannot even hope to begin or understand without his help. and this task of loving and becoming a good person, though it may be impossible, is worth doing. it's the only thing worth doing, in my opinion.

I've got various translations(and the original actual-Greek) of the Greco-Roman myths. Sisyphus rolls a boulder up a hill eternally as a punishment. This is not aiding your case if you think that is an apt analogy.

do you happen to know a person called albert camus? such beautiful writing!

one of his books is called the myth of sisyphus. he writes that one must imagine sisyphus happy. to understand why, one must read the book...

but to help you understand, isn't this endless, eternal task of sisyphus the exact same task of nietzsche when he tells us of a demon stealing away into our chamber at night, and offering us the burden of eternal return? the heaviest weight that crushes some and lifts others.

do you want to be the one who is crushed? or the one who falls to his knees in joy at the thought of this unsupportable burden?

to love fate - amor fati. the good and the bad.

I do not believe in the God of Abraham. My Gods are the Aesir and Vanir.

And they do not ask me to belittle myself. They do not hold me or anyone to a standard we cannot achieve, or any standards at all. They simply are, living their lives and I mine.

That is a good fable. But that has to do with personal standards, not ones set by a divine force.

my personal standards are ones that are aligned to that of the divine forces. i seek to live in accordance with god. i do not recognise my religious life in your description.

i want to explain why a religious person who knows they are a sinner may live a different kind of life from the one they live, one that aims at love, because they know they are a sinner. the firefly chooses to live with his inadequacy not in despairing rage, but in hope.

 

[catch22]

This idea that ALL people commit sins disserving of death - is just BULL!

*

Why is it bull? What if it's just the way it is? It's kind of bullcrap Earth is the only habitable planet in the solar system... but I mean, you gonna cry foul about that, too?

 

[Ingledsva]

Why is it bull? What if it's just the way it is? It's kind of bullcrap Earth is the only habitable planet in the solar system... but I mean, you gonna cry foul about that, too?

LOL! Don't even try the red-herring.

Who is crying foul?

I told you the - ALL are evil and deserving of death idea, - is PURE BULL!

In other words - MYTH!

*

 

[AllanV]

This idea that ALL people commit sins disserving of death - is just BULL!

*

What is sin? It is the transgression of the law. The 10 commandments given to the 12 tribes of Israel in the desert? Or is it something a little deeper.
The word sin means to miss the mark or not measure up.
Adam transgressed before the 10 commandments were established.
The pattern was established in a nature with a mind and consciousness and access to the tree of life was then denied.
Jesus established a new nature with own mind and consciousness that again gives access to immortality.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Take up the nature of Jesus and the Love in that nature is energized by the Spirit of God.

 

[Thief]

AGAIN - why would a supposedly all-knowing God require this impossible role of imperfect humans?

I don't believe, if a God were real, he would be that ridiculous.

*

If you cast an image identical.....as perfect.....you would be talking to yourself.
The only way to cast another image that has it's own mind....it needs to be less.

All-knowing God is a term that implies......we are not all knowing.
God is all mighty....implies...we are not.

If ever any one of us should become all knowing and all mighty....we would be the direct and perfect reflection of God.

 

[Ingledsva]

What is sin? It is the transgression of the law. The 10 commandments given to the 12 tribes of Israel in the desert? Or is it something a little deeper.
The word sin means to miss the mark or not measure up.
Adam transgressed before the 10 commandments were established.
The pattern was established in a nature with a mind and consciousness and access to the tree of life was then denied.
Jesus established a new nature with own mind and consciousness that again gives access to immortality.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Take up the nature of Jesus and the Love in that nature is energized by the Spirit of God.

And not a single thing you have said makes it logical to kill humans for minor flaws, when they are - well - human

Adam and Chav'vah didn't exist. A stone with laws was not handed to the Hebrew by God - on a mountain. These are just teaching stories.

*