Schiff pulled the pin

[Spice]

Somehow I get the feeling that all this doubt here towards the final stretch is a budding excuse should the Dems lose.
Who could argue with "well, we knew he should have bowed out" OR "maybe we shouldn't have made a change in our ticket." Either can make a reasonable excuse, so is it all malarkey?

 

[Bear Wild]

Dems would be throwing away the advantages of the incumbent.

In normal times that would be true. But since the creation of the republican cult of trump nothing is normal. This could be the one time that most people do not want to through ground hog day again with the return of the biden trump election/rematch round two including me.

 

[Bear Wild]

The Dems don't need to prove they're broken. It's bad enough the post-debate rhetoric brings such sharp question.

In a way the Democrats questioning of themselves is a far more healthy response than the all bow down to our savior in the republican party. Of course some of those republicans like the way Putin is in control so eliminating any republican opposition within the party makes sense to them

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Biden is a very weak candidate! Newsom would be a disastrous choice, I think. I am not sure the Ds could choose anyone other than Harris unless the convention next month really goes old school.

What does it matter? If the plug is pulled on Biden, Trump will win -- I have very little doubt of that. And Republicans will rejoice, except...

Sixteen (16) economists got together and did a deep dive into policies, and they told the Wall Street Journal that Biden's economic program was vastly better than Trump's, and that Trump's would re-ignite inflation -- you know, the thing they're all complaining about!

This is what happens when you don't pay attention, and don't do the thinking. You get what you pay for. Congratulations, America.

 

[Bear Wild]

What does it matter? If the plug is pulled on Biden, Trump will win -- I have very little doubt of that. And Republicans will rejoice, except...

Sixteen (16) economists got together and did a deep dive into policies, and they told the Wall Street Journal that Biden's economic program was vastly better than Trump's, and that Trump's would re-ignite inflation -- you know, the thing they're all complaining about!

This is what happens when you don't pay attention, and don't do the thinking. You get what you pay for. Congratulations, America.

The problem is that Biden did help the economy and in my opinion much better than Trump could but most Americans are not rational enough to comprehend it when they feel it is harder to make ends meet. It is the same problem with climate change. The information is their but most are only reacting to the immediate with no attempt to see the long term. The Haudenosaunee of the great lakes region had a saying that the skin of a leader must be 7 layers thick meaning to make a good decision you had to consider what effect that decision would have on someone 7 generation later. Unfortunately most of our leader in America cannot see beyond immediate gratification. We are just not as smart as the people who cared for the land before us.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The problem is that Biden did help the economy and in my opinion much better than Trump could but most Americans are not rational enough to comprehend it when they feel it is harder to make ends meet. It is the same problem with climate change. The information is their but most are only reacting to the immediate with no attempt to see the long term. The Haudenosaunee of the great lakes region had a saying that the skin of a leader must be 7 layers thick meaning to make a good decision you had to consider what effect that decision would have on someone 7 generation later. Unfortunately most of our leader in America cannot see beyond immediate gratification. We are just not as smart as the people who cared for the land before us.

The Founders cared because they created the country. MAGAs have just inherited it, and like so many prodigal sons, they squander the rich legacy left to them by their progenitors.

 

[Left Coast]

In a way the Democrats questioning of themselves is a far more healthy response than the all bow down to our savior in the republican party. Of course some of those republicans like the way Putin is in control so eliminating any republican opposition within the party makes sense to them

Ehhhh I do not give us that much credit lol. The situation is becoming desperate and the party is therefore responding out of desperation.

 

[Regiomontanus]

What does it matter? If the plug is pulled on Biden, Trump will win -- I have very little doubt of that. And Republicans will rejoice, except...

I am not sure about that. Trump is not any more popular than Biden nationally. A bump of a few points in a few swing states is all that is needed for Harris. And she does poll slightly better than Biden in a head-to-head match against the Orange One.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I am not sure about that. Trump is not any more popular than Biden nationally. A bump of a few points in a few swing states is all that is needed for Harris. And she does poll slightly better than Biden in a head-to-head match against the Orange One.

Polls this far ahead of an election is the equivalent of consulting the entrails of a chicken. Sadly, it's what too many Democrats are relying on, failing to do the long-term thinking about how real humans behave.

Remember the "red wave" in 2022? Polls guaranteed it, and it didn't happen -- because voters saw how dangerous Republicans were for the norms they've become accustomed to. Democrats have been outperforming the polls in every special election since Biden was sworn in.

 

[Bear Wild]

Ehhhh I do not give us that much credit lol. The situation is becoming desperate and the party is therefore responding out of desperation.

It is complicated and I do not know all that is occurring behind the closed doors. What they need to do is have an honest meeting and what ever the decision they make they all need to stand behind.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Remember the "red wave" in 2022?

It is possible to ignore the boy who cried wolf one too many times.

 

[Left Coast]

It is complicated and I do not know all that is occurring behind the closed doors. What they need to do is have an honest meeting and what ever the decision they make they all need to stand behind.

Of course. My point was that this isn't some pivot out of principle, it's necessity. The idea that elected Dems are openly calling for Biden to leave the race when we're in July and he has, what, 90% of the delegates?, means the situation is dire.

 

[dawny0826]

Oh boy. Is there still time to get a new D at the top of the ticket (surely, it must be Harris?). I think so. Please Joe, retire.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/17/politics/adam-schiff-joe-biden-congress/index.html

I worry that pressuring Biden to drop out now is too little, too late.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Of course. My point was that this isn't some pivot out of principle, it's necessity. The idea that elected Dems are openly calling for Biden to leave the race when we're in July and he has, what, 90% of the delegates?, means the situation is dire.

It's only dire because too many Democrats panicked. Panic is not the stuff of leadership.

 

[Regiomontanus]

I worry that pressuring Biden to drop out now is too little, too late.

I see no other choice. Biden is damaged goods.

Time will tell...

 

[Left Coast]

It's only dire because too many Democrats panicked. Panic is not the stuff of leadership.

It's dire because Joe is gonna lose this thing and he doesn't look good, physically or mentally. I agree that panic is not helpful. It's one thing to panic and another to make a very much sober assessment that my house is on fire and I need to get out.

The Dems' problem is, no other candidate does any better in the polls than Joe.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's dire because Joe is gonna lose this thing and he doesn't look good, physically or mentally. I agree that panic is not helpful. It's one thing to panic and another to make a very much sober assessment that my house is on fire and I need to get out.

The Dems' problem is, no other candidate does any better in the polls than Joe.

And therefore, Trump wins -- and the repercussions of that are inevitable.

I'm glad I'm Canadian, although now, I'd prefer to be even further away from the U.S.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's only dire because too many Democrats panicked. Panic is not the stuff of leadership.

I find it remarkable that you would frame Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, and Obama as no more than panicked Democrats. They are better than that.

 

[Left Coast]

And therefore, Trump wins -- and the repercussions of that are inevitable.

I'm glad I'm Canadian, although now, I'd prefer to be even further away from the U.S.

Unless there is a major shift in the dynamics of the election, my bets are on Trump, whether Joe drops out or not.

 

[Regiomontanus]

It's dire because Joe is gonna lose this thing and he doesn't look good, physically or mentally. I agree that panic is not helpful. It's one thing to panic and another to make a very much sober assessment that my house is on fire and I need to get out.

The Dems' problem is, no other candidate does any better in the polls than Joe.

Harris is polling about the same as Biden.

Here’s How Kamala Harris Performs In Polls Against Trump—As Biden Drops Out And Endorses Harris

Joe Biden dropped his 2024 bid and endorsed Kamala Harris.

www.forbes.com

But so much can change in a few months and Trump is still not very popular, nationally. The advantage Harris has, IMHO, is that she could shore-up the minority vote, which has been declining a bit for Biden. And she is relatively young.

She has her faults and weaknesses (as a prosecutor she was pretty brutal on prosecutions for relatively innocuous charges, especially for minorities in CA).

Once we factor in the lingering racism in this country, the choice between her and Biden is a toss up. But I would still go for her simply because she does not have the liabilities Biden has. And is not old.