Science confirms validity of intercessory prayer

[Subduction Zone]

No dude, every Christian know what intercessory is because there is a model for it called The Lord's Prayer and it what I described as intercessory prayer fit exactly inside that model. Go look it up yourself.

You are probably merely misinterpreting it. I am not doing your homework for you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They are inconclusive. And logical conclusion is that these studies are waste.

They arent a waste because, due to these studies, we can definitively say prayer isnt an effective means of healthcare. Properly dosed medications are. Prayers didnt reduce polio and measles. Vaccines did. Prayer has never done anything for my knees. Medications, ice, heat, and the occasional surgery does. And the studies, I am very confident a proper meta-analysis would reveal the studies show there is overall no significant statistical relation overall, all things considered. "Void the null hypothesis," as is heard a half million times in any statistics course.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

lol

Here it is, if you are interested:

The Problem with New Age Syncretists i.e. the Spiritual but not Religious

 

[charlie sc]

You're wrong again. I judge each study independently and look at its methodology and other criteria

I almost never call people lairs, because lying involves knowing one is being deceptive. So, you are either lying here or confused. You didn't even know how to get one of the studies in the OP(which you made) or the name of it. Obviously, you didn't read it. I had to look for it and I did it because of my morbid interest in this thread. I'm definitely not going to read through it. You've obviously made up your mind, so what use would it be to read through some dubious study? Meh. No more homework for me.

The contrary "STEP" study had a religious cult that didn't believe in intercessory prayer as it's prayer group. That group ("The Unity School of Christinity") had a Christian sounding name but it was anything but Christian.

Ron Rhodes, who has a doctorate in systematic theology and who has authored some sixty theological books, noted, "The Unity School of Christianity is definitely not Christian." Probe, a respected Christian journal, calls Unity "a classic new age cult that is not Christian in any aspect of its doctrines or teachings." Even the co-founder of the cult, Charles Fillmore, once wrote, "God never performs miracles."

So, as Dr. Brown (see the OP) noted, the studies are different because (the STEP study) "has a different inclusion” criteria. She also stated, the STEP study "is instructional on how NOT to conduct a study of Christian prayer."

No true scotsman, huh? Basically, you're saying if it fails in finding significance then it's wrong, because they weren't true Christians. Yeh, nice, unfalsifiable.

So take your blinders off, Charlie.

If I have blinders, then you're in a mine 4km bellow the surface - without a light... Yes, I googled the deepest mine in the world

 

[The Reverend Bob]

They arent a waste because, due to these studies, we can definitively say prayer isnt an effective means of healthcare. Properly dosed medications are. Prayers didnt reduce polio and measles. Vaccines did. Prayer has never done anything for my knees. Medications, ice, heat, and the occasional surgery does. And the studies, I am very confident a proper meta-analysis would reveal the studies show there is overall no significant statistical relation overall, all things considered. "Void the null hypothesis," as is heard a half million times in any statistics course.

I don't think it helps much for tooth decay either but it does help build communal relationships and gives people hope and comfort. And that is all that is necessary.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They are inconclusive. And logical conclusion is that these studies are waste.

And even if studies find nothing or are includive, ifs not at all a waste because the next researcher now knows what didnt work and where more research is needed. Science in discourse is very circular, with people taking and giving, contributing and adjusting, round and round it goes. Its not a linear process exactly, its not fast, it has no end goal in sight or planned, and it doesnt care what you think is a waste or not. All knowledge is worthy in pursuit when your quest is one that seeks knowledge.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't think it helps much for tooth decay either but it does help build communal relationships and gives people hope and comfort. And that is all that is necessary.

And you probably wont find more than a few who take issue with that. However, we know regardless they still need to see a dentist for their tooth decay, and much much sooner rather than later. And we also know she wants to get that tooth looked at pronto because prayer isnt going to help the pain once the nerve is exposed, and so far science and medicine cant save her from the agonizing pain either.

 

[charlie sc]

Here it is, if you are interested:

The Problem with New Age Syncretists i.e. the Spiritual but not Religious

That's hilarious.

 

[charlie sc]

I don't think it helps much for tooth decay either but it does help build communal relationships and gives people hope and comfort. And that is all that is necessary.

Here's some ammunition vs atheists. Religiosity is associated with good health

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Here's some ammunition vs atheists. Religiosity is associated with good health

As Ive been arguing since I was an undergrad, you can find those benefits in any positive group relations. Its the hangovers of a formerly deeply religious society that is still reluctant and afraid to trim the excess and unneeded fat.

 

[charlie sc]

As Ive been arguing since I was an undergrad, you can find those benefits in any positive group relations.

Perhaps, but it still positively correlates.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Perhaps, but it still positively correlates.

Yes, but Occam's razor makes it unnecessary. We need to focus on building inclusive communities of humanity minus the authoritarian dictator who wants people dead if they worship someone else.

 

[charlie sc]

Yes, but Occam's razor makes it unnecessary.

Would you mind explaining how Occam's razor fits into this?

We need to focus on building inclusive communities of humanity minus the authoritarian dictator who wants people dead if they worship someone else.

I don't disagree with you, but it still positively correlates.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Would you mind explaining how Occam's razor fits into this?

Close groups that promote pro-social behaviors typically get members who themselves are more pro social, take better care of themselves, do better in school, less likely to use drugs, and so. Its because were social animals. Occams razor fits because we dont religiosity isnt needed to explain this - its a piece of a much larger trend. But the spot light, even in many text books, gets put very heavily on the religious part of it.

 

[charlie sc]

Close groups that promote pro-social behaviors typically get members who themselves are more pro social, take better care of themselves, do better in school, less likely to use drugs, and so. Its because were social animals. Occams razor fits because we dont religiosity isnt needed to explain this - its a piece of a much larger trend. But the spot light, even in many text books, gets put very heavily on the religious part of it.

Fair enough.

 

[viole]

It's already been linked by someone else. Get a new dog that hunts.

Well, link it again, or tell us what post contains it. What is the problem?

At present I could equally claim that there are studies that show the tooth fairy exists, with the same evidence.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Altfish]

Lee Strobel.

 

[exchemist]

Because Bob is unreliable and it would be wise to go look into for yourself and I heard he likes to post parodies of certain subjects and pretend he is being serious

Yes, I can confirm this.

 

[exchemist]

Prayer is not a subject for science period.

Why not? After all, only a few posts ago you were saying science is bull.

 

[exchemist]

And the contradictory results of the sum totals of these studies has proven that it is a waste of time. It is outside the magestria of science. There is no related field in science to study a metaphysical concept and practice such as prayer. Science is about studying the physical universe not the spiritual one.

Magisterium.