Science is important... and even holy.

[Smart_Guy]

Because it harms humanity.

What if all of the USA were young earth creationist avoiding science and history and most academic knowledge, and hell bent to spread this message globally, would you say that would be positive for humanity or negative for humanity???

it is an A or B question, no answering with another question please.

It does harm, and it would be negative to humanity, Is my honest answer.

I see that it does not harm humanity. Guns don't kill standing by their own, and they can be used to protect as well.

Everything can be used to do harm, depending on who uses it.

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That simply is not true.

This to me is a perfect example of the dangers of faith, and religions that do not embrace knowledge, instead avoid it. Cherry picking knowledge based on what many call mythology.

Science helps us determine history, credible history all muslims refuse, because they are forced to refuse, or they would not be muslim.

Cultural anthropology combined with scientific dating methods have shown pages of koran possibly date to Warakas time. Waraka was heretic Christian priest who was known to pervert the bible in Arabic. This man found muhammad at age 5 wondering alone and took him in.

Yet you refuse tio admit he learned anything about religion from his own cousin.

islam goes against academia, in many places of science and history. Many of what your calling specifics are actually facts, facts you refuse because your religion requires you to avoid it.

You mean looking at a fossil and saying it is Gizzillion years old is objective?

What difference does it make if it is only 10 million years old rather than three shishillion years old?? Does not sound subjective at all.

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Because we are having global problems with islam, for many reasons.

Islamic people are murdering innocent civilians here, and what is worse is how many are murdered over sectarian violence in the middle east.

The deaths due to this religion in the middle east is just terrible. Its terrible for muslims more then anything, but also non muslims.

There you have it, you're saying Islamic people, not Islam. And these global problems of Islam are shown by ~1.6 billion Muslims? A Muslim is a follower of Islam, you know. Also, I did mention an example of the gun above.

---------------------

Yet they are factually opposites.

Religions are factually faith based and contain mythology. It factually does not offer a credible explanation of nature, it does not pass any peer review to maintain any credibility, and has a bad habit of avoiding evidence and knowledge.

Science is evidence based, and offers credible observations of nature, peer reviewed before accepting anything as credible knowledge.

One is accepted by all credible standards. The other is rejected by credible standards.

Yet religion talks about the importance of science and religious people were behind the prosperity of the world in many fields. I can't see they are opposites. They are completely two different fields.

 

[outhouse]

I see that it does not harm humanity. Guns don't kill standing by their own, and they can be used to protect as well.

Everything can be used to do harm, depending on who uses it.

There is no credible defense against fanaticism and fundamentalism.

YEC say the same things about the facts of biology and age of the earth. They make up excuses to not face academia.

 

[outhouse]

What difference does it make if it is only 10 million years old rather than three shishillion years old??

Many of us like knowledge.

Many of us want to advance humanity forward.

 

[outhouse]

There you have it, you're saying Islamic people, not Islam

No I'm not. Islam is the problem.

It has many issues negative on humanity that right now, that outweigh the positive.

 

[outhouse]

Yet religion talks about the importance of science and religious people were behind the prosperity of the world in many fields

But you admit you place book, before reality, the way I see it.

YEC make the same poor excuse, the have no academic credibility like all of islam holds no academic credibility due to placing book before knowledge.

You both place ancient books before credible knowledge, and both fight against accepting credible knowledge.

Both groups are extreme in fundamentalism and fanaticism.

One group is like 40% of the population though, islam is 100% sadly.

I can't see they are opposites

I know.

That is the problem with islam. You cannot see the error.

Because islam tells you this. Which is factually the opposite of what academia teaches. For you religious book comes first knowledge and credible education second.

 

[outhouse]

This is exactly like a blind man.

He cannot see outside his own thinking, and his life is fine to him because he does not know what he is missing.

Its terrible people do not want to see the whole picture, and only favor ancient views of life over modern.

 

[Smart_Guy]

There is no credible defense against fanaticism and fundamentalism.
YEC say the same things about the facts of biology and age of the earth. They make up excuses to not face academia.

No argument there.

----------------------------------

Many of us like knowledge.

Many of us want to advance humanity forward.

You are absolutely right. No argument there.

----------------------------------

No I'm not. Islam is the problem.
It has many issues negative on humanity that right now, that outweigh the positive.

Didn't you say this:

Islamic people are murdering innocent civilians here, and what is worse is how many are murdered over sectarian violence in the middle east.

?
Do all ~1.5 billion Islamic people murder innocent civilians? No they don't. If both groups exist; those who do and those who don't, with those who do being the vast minority, then the problem is not in the religion, but people who choose how to use religion. This is logic.

---------------------------------

But you admit you place book, before reality, the way I see it.

YEC make the same poor excuse, the have no academic credibility like all of islam holds no academic credibility due to placing book before knowledge.

You both place ancient books before credible knowledge, and both fight against accepting credible knowledge.

Both groups are extreme in fundamentalism and fanaticism.

One group is like 40% of the population though, islam is 100% sadly.

And what's wrong with that if a book says science is important? That's what I've been saying and you seem to want to divert the subject for some reason.

You also seem to place theories (not phenomena what can be practically proven on) above anything.

--------------------------------

I know.

That is the problem with islam. You cannot see the error.

Because islam tells you this. Which is factually the opposite of what academia teaches. For you religious book comes first knowledge and credible education second.

And you found out yourself that a fossil is tabillion years old?

If you ask for the proof to be explained to you, you will probably just shake your head without actually understanding it. Basically you will just chose to believe it because you want to, just like religious people do.

 

[outhouse]

Didn't you say this:

yes.

Did I say the only problem was followers? No I did not

Do all ~1.5 billion Islamic people murder innocent civilians?

I did not claim such.

We are talking about you placing a ancient religious book before modern knowledge

 

[outhouse]

You also seem to place theories (not phenomena what can be practically proven on) above anything.

Factually I am not.

I am placing a credible method of study over what many perceive as a primitive method of study.

Science does not prove anything, they study and report. I place credible knowledge over plagiarized mythology.

 

[outhouse]

Basically you will just chose to believe it because you want to, just like religious people do.

You cannot see your error, I cannot help you as you do not accept credible knowledge, you only refuse it.

My belief system is based on credible knowledge, observation and peer review. Not plagiarized mythology.


Religious people by the way are not all fundamentalist, but islam requires it, and teaches it to all.


Your a good muslim and decent man I'm sure, but that does not mean you accept credible education

 

[outhouse]

I like you, and I know your a nice guy.

But you need to realize no one is in line to study islams method of science in a university, because it is not perceived as credible by any standard.


It is the same as saying YEC scientist should teach biology. The education would be less then worthless.

 

[Smart_Guy]

yes.
Did I say the only problem was followers? No I did not

You gave the example of who practically and actually do the harm and said Islamists do it. I think what should be looked at is the direct act not words on a book. Other wise why just cherry pick word out of context and use them against it?

I did not claim such.

We are talking about you placing a ancient religious book before modern knowledge

Sorry, I might have misread then. In this case this means Islam is not all bad since you don't claim all Muslims do bad while those all Muslims follow the same Quran. This proves it is just a controversy that Islam is bad, not factually bad.

But you changed the subject to different other things first

The topic is about whither religion thinks science is important, right? It is either yes or now, with a textual proof. Debate here would be in the meaning or existence of the textual proof, or else it would be off-topic *cough*

Factually I am not.

I am placing a credible method of study over what many perceive as a primitive method of study.

Science does not prove anything, they study and report. I place credible knowledge over plagiarized mythology.

Which means this is off-topic. We are talking about the notion of science, not such details.

Besides, how could you say science does not prove anything? You're gonna make lots of enemies with this

Also, why do you say that now about science while insist that Islam does harm? Two inanimate things that does not do anything unless people do the act? Gotcha

You cannot see your error, I cannot help you as you do not accept credible knowledge, you only refuse it.

My belief system is based on credible knowledge, observation and peer review. Not plagiarized mythology.

Religious people by the way are not all fundamentalist, but islam requires it, and teaches it to all.

Your a good muslim and decent man I'm sure, but that does not mean you accept credible education

And I respect your opinion and view against me and my beliefs. See? easy

I like you, and I know your a nice guy.

But you need to realize no one is in line to study islams method of science in a university, because it is not perceived as credible by any standard.

It is the same as saying YEC scientist should teach biology. The education would be less then worthless.

I like you too

Of course. Islam does not speak of science in details, it says science is important as a means to go to science and not to stick with the book and worshiping. Our topic is about whither science is important only, remember? Many Muslims became scientists and benefited the whole world, right? Many still do. Why can't we look at them instead of looking at let's say I S I S ?

Does YEC say anything like that? That could be related to the original point of the discussion then.

 

[outhouse]

In this case this means Islam is not all bad

I am not claiming that.

Islam is a tool, the tool is being misused, because the tool is not clear, it was written by humans for humans, and only has a human origin for people of a specific time period.

The tool has faults, that does not make all bad nor have I implied such.

 

[outhouse]

Besides, how could you say science does not prove anything? You're gonna make lots of enemies with this

It has never been science job to prove anything.

People use scientific findings to prove things, but science itself is the credible study and observation of nature.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I am not claiming that.

Islam is a tool, the tool is being misused, because the tool is not clear, it was written by humans for humans, and only has a human origin for people of a specific time period.

The tool has faults, that does not make all bad nor have I implied such.

Um... okay.

That's what I understand of it as well. Sorry for misunderstanding you.

It has never been science job to prove anything.

People use scientific findings to prove things, but science itself is the credible study and observation of nature.

I completely agree with you.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Thing is...science only deals with the physical 2.5% of the universe detectble... 97.5% awaits detection and understanding... So materialists really have no idea about the bigger picture beyond....the only reason atheists exist is that they do not know what they do not know....

 

[outhouse]

Thing is...science only deals with the physical 2.5% of the universe detectble...

It deals with 100% of your physical life, and the world you live on.

Science does not do personal imagination, fantasy or mythology.

... So materialists really have no idea about the bigger picture beyond

Since when did uneducated non materialist EVER have a better idea, then a so called materialist ?

You think required use of imagination equals knowledge?

 

[prometheus11]

Thing is...science only deals with the physical 2.5% of the universe detectble... 97.5% awaits detection and understanding... So materialists really have no idea about the bigger picture beyond....the only reason atheists exist is that they do not know what they do not know....

Do you know of a better way to learn about the universe in measurable ways (that offer detectable results) than science?

Do you think our lack of knowledge has an effect in the argument for gods existence?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It deals with 100% of your physical life, and the world you live on.

Science does not do personal imagination, fantasy or mythology.



Since when did uneducated non materialist EVER have a better idea, then a so called materialist ?

You think required use of imagination equals knowledge?

Sorry for the delay outhouse...I missed this one....

No sir....science only can detect only 2.5% of me....the physical body....the 65% dark energy is within my body and science can not influence it directly... the kingdom of God is within...

Religion is primarily concerned with union with the Divine...one can not serve two masters without serving one second best...

Since when did uneducated materialist EVER have a better idea, then a so called non-materialist?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Do you know of a better way to learn about the universe in measurable ways (that offer detectable results) than science?

Do you think our lack of knowledge has an effect in the argument for gods existence?

Fine...science has its place in objective knowledge and application of the 5% physical universe to support the incarnate souls...and religion has its place in realizing subjectively what and who we really are in the context of the 100% of the universe... But one can not serve two masters without serving one second best..it's your choice as to which you want to commit fully...

There is no argument from me about the existence of God....only about the ignorance concerning the reality...