Science Proves Nature Was Created

[Etritonakin]

oh but we are there....

the singularity would be 'the Word'.
further description won't help.

as soon as a secondary is allowed.....infinity....and the rules of reality....
all came forth.

I think of the rules of reality as the 'firmament' mentioned in Genesis.
reality has no 'real' or 'tangible' EFFECT...unless there are rules.

The 'form' of this world came much later.

If Genesis seems confusing...
Picture yourself as God....yes you can....
and you are introducing yourself to an intelligent old man of eighty years
who came up unto the mountain to meet his God.

and he wants to know how all of this came to be.

Can you actually explain it to him?

The effort became known as the book of Genesis.
It's way to brief.
The terms are sketchy at best.

you really have to think about it.

"WE" are not there... and all accurate description can help.... but knowledge is secondary to responsibility.

 

[Thief]

"WE" are not there... and all accurate description can help.... but knowledge is secondary to responsibility.

So Adam and Eve were ignorant of the knowledge of good and evil....
and were held responsible for the acquisition?

most people would say so.

I say it was a test to see if Man had become that creature seeking knowledge....
even as death is pending.

We ARE that creature.

btw.....denying the word.....we....counts you out.

 

[Etritonakin]

So Adam and Eve were ignorant of the knowledge of good and evil....
and were held responsible for the acquisition?

most people would say so.

I say it was a test to see if Man had become that creature seeking knowledge....
even as death is pending.

We ARE that creature.

btw.....denying the word.....we....counts you out.

That is not completely accurate. They were ignorant of the experience of evil -the doing.
God was responsible for telling them what was good to do -and what was not good to do.
As there there is theoretically no end to the invention of evil, God was not responsible for explaining all of the possibilities -as that would take forever.
They were instructed to do this -and not do that -and simply were responsible for their choices -their own actions.

Definitely count me out of vagueness..... the singularity would have come to be by the Word -and the Word of God is a part of God -by whom all things consist -but we can't assume that even it was the very beginning. It is the point we reference as the beginning of our universe, but it may only be a small part of that which existed. The "creation" may be far greater and expansive than just one universe. The universe is big enough -I'm not complaining -but we just don't know.

....and denying the word "WE" simply means that not everyone has the same perspective.
Otherwise, WE would be I (which is sometimes the case with WE, regardless -though WE is ignorant of the fact [such is the nature of the image -a "WE" -of the beast -an "I" ] ).
I am definitely not where you are in understanding or perspective -and this is true of perhaps all to some degree.

I'd say it was God telling Adam and Eve how to not die, because he did not want them to die.
The irony is that choosing the tree of life would have brought more knowledge -more quickly -but without all of the hassle of misery and death.
God did not want to deny knowledge -but keep us from the knowledge of good AND EVIL. He wanted us to have knowledge only of good -that which would not do us harm.
Also note that God made the tree of the knowledge of good and evil AVAILABLE.
He did not hide it. He wanted us to know it existed -because it did -and to avoid it.
God knew that newly created beings would seek experience in innocent ignorance, disbelief, curiosity and rebellion -and had already formulated a plan to bring it all back around.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

 

[Milton Platt]

If literally nothing preceded the Big Bang.... then there was magically a Big Bang....

How do you kow literally nothing preceeded the big bang? There was of course the singularity before the big bang. Before that, we literally do not what existed. And neither do you.

 

[Etritonakin]

How do you kow literally nothing preceeded the big bang? There was of course the singularity before the big bang. Before that, we literally do not what existed. And neither do you.

That's my point!!!!! I do not believe that.

 

[Thief]

That is not completely accurate. They were ignorant of the experience of evil -the doing.
God was responsible for telling them what was good to do -and what was not good to do.
As there there is theoretically no end to the invention of evil, God was not responsible for explaining all of the possibilities -as that would take forever.
They were instructed to do this -and not do that -and simply were responsible for their choices -their own actions.

Definitely count me out of vagueness..... the singularity would have come to be by the Word -and the Word of God is a part of God -by whom all things consist -but we can't assume that even it was the very beginning. It is the point we reference as the beginning of our universe, but it may only be a small part of that which existed. The "creation" may be far greater and expansive than just one universe. The universe is big enough -I'm not complaining -but we just don't know.

....and denying the word "WE" simply means that not everyone has the same perspective.
Otherwise, WE would be I (which is sometimes the case with WE, regardless -though WE is ignorant of the fact [such is the nature of the image -a "WE" -of the beast -an "I" ] ).
I am definitely not where you are in understanding or perspective -and this is true of perhaps all to some degree.

I'd say it was God telling Adam and Eve how to not die, because he did not want them to die.
The irony is that choosing the tree of life would have brought more knowledge -more quickly -but without all of the hassle of misery and death.
God did not want to deny knowledge -but keep us from the knowledge of good AND EVIL. He wanted us to have knowledge only of good -that which would not do us harm.
Also note that God made the tree of the knowledge of good and evil AVAILABLE.
He did not hide it. He wanted us to know it existed -because it did -and to avoid it.
God knew that newly created beings would seek experience in innocent ignorance, disbelief, curiosity and rebellion -and had already formulated a plan to bring it all back around.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

No one lied in the garden.
eat and you shall die.....true.
eat and you will be like god knowing good and evil.....true.

I don't believe Adam and Eve were the first of humankind.
see chapter One Genesis.
Chapter Two is not a retelling of chapter One.

walk in heaven not knowing good from evil?......I think not

 

[Thief]

How do you kow literally nothing preceeded the big bang? There was of course the singularity before the big bang. Before that, we literally do not what existed. And neither do you.

I say Spirit first.
God existed before His creation.

 

[God lover]

The title is a bit of a play on words, but many seem to think of "nature" in terms of what now exists -sometimes as if it has always been that way.

However, what now exists was brought into being by a very specific process. It was created -even if in the broadest sense.

(The following ideas may not have originated with me, but they are interesting to consider, nonetheless.)

"During most of their lives, stars fuse hydrogen into helium in their cores, but the fusion process rarely stops at this point; most of the helium in the universe was made during the initial big bang. When the star's core runs out of hydrogen, the star begins to die out. The processes that occur during this period form the heavier elements.

Read more: Formation of Elements - Formation Of Elements - Burning, Stars, Helium, and Star - JRank Articles http://science.jrank.org/pages/2412/Elements-Formation-Formation-elements.html#ixzz3jBrFgIPt
"

Something caused that which existed before the big bang (Pre-Big Bang Nature?) to become the big bang -which, in turn, became the elements, etc., which, in turn, became life -or, at the very least, became that which allowed physical life to exist.

The five elements present in all DNA are Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen, Nitrogen and
Phosphorus.

If evolution based on those elements was inevitable, it was only inevitable after those elements existed, and only due to the forces which brought them together in the necessary order inevitably doing so....
unless.... the formation of those elements was also inevitable.

If evolution was inevitable due to the nature of the big bang, and the universe is generally similar everywhere, we should expect life to be present in many places throughout the universe -at least eventually.

By inevitable, I mean certainty not requiring forethought, design, effort, etc. -at least at a certain point

If one considers God to be the creator of the heavens (universe), the worlds, the earth -essentially all that we can know -one ought not assume the point at which God did any specific thing -especially if it is not specified. Even if something is specified, one ought to acknowledge that one does not know the specifics about that.
Biblical scripture advises us to "prove all things" -so science, in its purest form -ought to be seen as an awesome tool to do so -not something to be rejected.

Scripture specifies that God did certain things after the heavens and earth were in existence (actually, "specifies" is not very accurate, as very few specific details are given, and much is often assumed buy the reader) -but we have no clue what was inevitable at what point -what would absolutely require forethought, design and action at what point to achieve what now is -and even science is far from knowing the nature of nature -especially before the Big Bang -well enough to know absolutely.

Many parts of the bible indicate that what now is was planned before it was initiated -so we ought not to scoff at the idea of inevitability even if we believe in a creator.
We, ourselves, can change what was otherwise inevitable -and make another thing inevitable.

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Ecc 3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

Luke 14:28 For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?

I think mathematical probability also proves the universe is the work of intentional, creative maker.

 

[Bunyip]

I think mathematical probability also proves the universe is the work of intentional, creative maker.

How could that even be possible? What is your math there?

 

[psychoslice]

Of course nature was created, everything was created and is still being created, all the ingredients are there within the cosmos to do so, it doesn't need a god, this may have been the belief by the ignorant when they knew nothing about science, or the cosmos.

 

[God lover]

How could that even be possible? What is your math there?

My own mathematical skills don't go too far. I am not talking as a math expert.

I should clarify what i am thinking. Everything on Earth seems to break down. I am a carpenter and we try our best to build houses to last. The average house lifespan isn't more than 100 years. There are so many things that break the house down. Animals and plants don't last either. Reproduction saves life forms.

All life we know of is built of structures such as protein, amino acids, dna, etc... if the only way earth got to this level of complexity was from random assimilation of structures that tend to break down, then the probability of such an incredible series of events must be enormous.

 

[Bunyip]

My own mathematical skills don't go too far. I am not talking as a math expert.

I should clarify what i am thinking. Everything on Earth seems to break down. I am a carpenter and we try our best to build houses to last. The average house lifespan isn't more than 100 years. There are so many things that break the house down. Animals and plants don't last either. Reproduction saves life forms.

All life we know of is built of structures such as protein, amino acids, dna, etc... if the only way earth got to this level of complexity was from random assimilation of structures that tend to break down, then the probability of such an incredible series of events must be enormous.

Well you are making a mistake in thinking it is random - what about evolution? Are you ignoring it?

 

[God lover]

Well you are making a mistake in thinking it is random - what about evolution? Are you ignoring it?

Oh. My understanding of evolution is that all the life forms that mutate randomly with some advantage will reproduce more effectively than the prior.

Is this an older form of evolution?

 

[Etritonakin]

Of course nature was created, everything was created and is still being created, all the ingredients are there within the cosmos to do so, it doesn't need a god, this may have been the belief by the ignorant when they knew nothing about science, or the cosmos.

What you are describing is God -but it is understandable to not see the forest for the trees.

 

[Thief]

How could that even be possible? What is your math there?

not his math.....or yours.....

God's!

and you'll have to wait and ask Him when you get there.

 

[Thief]

Of course nature was created, everything was created and is still being created, all the ingredients are there within the cosmos to do so, it doesn't need a god, this may have been the belief by the ignorant when they knew nothing about science, or the cosmos.

so there is no Spirit greater than this creation?
and creation is then 'self' starting?

and therefore science is wrong.....substance can move of it's own volition.
all that is above your head had no Hand in its' formation.

but....I think Someone did it.

 

[leibowde84]

movement and gravity affect each other.

the computation is done on chalkboard and the quotient is called time.

don't do the computation
reality will continue without the notation

This has been proved false by Einstein's theory of relativity. An objects speed effects how that object observes time. This has been shown time and time again with physical/real experimentation. It is no longer merely theoretical.

Why do you think they have to reset the clocks of satellites in orbit around earth on a daily basis?

 

[leibowde84]

so there is no Spirit greater than this creation?
and creation is then 'self' starting?

and therefore science is wrong.....substance can move of it's own volition.
all that is above your head had no Hand in its' formation.

but....I think Someone did it.

At this point, we don't have any reason to assume what existed before the Big Bang. Thus, the only reasonable position is "we just don't know yet". Every day we are encountering scientific truths that don't make sense according to our previously held positions. That is why science is constantly challenging itself.

 

[Thief]

At this point, we don't have any reason to assume what existed before the Big Bang. Thus, the only reasonable position is "we just don't know yet". Every day we are encountering scientific truths that don't make sense according to our previously held positions. That is why science is constantly challenging itself.

You can wait for proof if you need it.
I am willing to work with a reasonable assumption.

such is faith.

 

[Thief]

This has been proved false by Einstein's theory of relativity. An objects speed effects how that object observes time. This has been shown time and time again with physical/real experimentation. It is no longer merely theoretical.

Why do you think they have to reset the clocks of satellites in orbit around earth on a daily basis?

I got his book.....
and I got it.....

time is a measurement...nothing more.
what it measures are the effects of motion to gravity.