Science Proves Religions of the World To Be Accurate!

[Tinkerpeach]

Well, the fact of biblical error would certainly support this; either that or He had no hand in it to begin with, maybe because He doesn't exist.

I don't see anyone doing this. People are just pointing out observed, tested facts, clear contradictions, and known historical errors. It's not rocket science.

There are no contradictions only an error in our understanding of events.

God was there, He saw first hand what happened and all we have to go by are a few lines of text.

Give me a break.

 

[gnostic]

It is not logical to conclude that every account of the tower of babel was based on a single older account. There is no evidence or logic to support such concepts.

The Genesis stories of Creation and Flood are indeed based on Babylonian creation myths (eg Enūma Eliš (Epic of Creation), Epic of Atrahasis & Epic of Gilgamesh (Nineveh has tablet 11, which contain the story of Utnapishtim), which in turn were based on even older Sumerian myths (eg Eridu Genesis (eg Ziusudra), Enki and Ninmah, Song of the Hoe, and allusions of Ziusudra in the poem called the Death of Bilgames).

The Genesis connection to Babylonian myths were most likely learned by Jews who were living in exile at Babylon as hostages, during the 6th century BCE. There are no older versions of Genesis, dating to the Bronze Age (c 3100 - c 1050 BCE)

The Tower of Babel don’t exist on any of Babylonian & Sumerian sources (about the creation & flood myths) that I have mentioned above. But as Jews were living in Babylon when Nebuchadnezzar was reigning emperor of Neo-Babylonian empire, Jews must have been inspired by the enormous ziggurat completed by then.

This ziggurat was called Etemenaki, was actually started construction during the reign of Neo-Assyrian ruler Esarhaddon (681 - 669 BCE), and continued to be constructed by Nebuchadnezzar’s father, Nabopolassar (626 - 605 BCE), before Nebuchadnezzar (605 - 562 BCE) completed it.

There are no Genesis written in the Bronze Age; there were no texts of any kind, not in clay or stone tablets, not in any parchment or papyrus. There were no biblical texts whatsoever.

I know there are some Jewish traditions that say Moses wrote the Genesis as well as Exodus, Numbers & Leviticus, but no such person (Moses) exist in Late Bronze Age.

And btw, cladking. The only tall structure in Mesopotamia built in the late 3rd millennium BCE, was ziggurat built in Ur, known as the Great Ziggurat of Ur, built by Ur-Nammu and completed by his son ShulgI (rulers of Ur during its 3rd dynasty), 21st century BCE. The height is about 30 metres.

There are older ziggurats, such as the ziggurat in Uruk, in the Anu District, started around 4000 BCE, with White Temple constructed on top of the ziggurat in 3400 BCE, and the ziggurat & temple were dedicated to An (Anu in Akkadian). This ziggurat was about 21 or 22 metres tall. The Elamite ziggurat, known as the Sialk Ziggurat was built around 3000 BCE, in Tepe Sialk.

Even the smaller pyramid at Giza, the Menkaure Pyramid that stood 65 metres tall, were taller than all extant ziggurats in the 3rd millennium BCE. But the Etemenaki ziggurat (91 metres tall) was built in the mid-1st millennium BCE. The Khufu Pyramid or the Great Pyramid (146 metres) still stood taller than the Etemenaki.

but regardless of which monuments were taller, 3 languages existed near each other during the 3rd millennium BCE, Sumerian, Akkadian and Elamite, and that’s ignoring the Egyptian language and the languages of Indus Valley Civilization. Multiple languages already exist in the 3rd millennium BCE, so the whole Babel event is merely a myth.

 

[gnostic]

There are no contradictions only an error in our understanding of events.

God was there, He saw first hand what happened and all we have to go by are a few lines of text.

Give me a break.

The Bible, especially in regards to Genesis don’t exist in the Bronze Age.

they were written by humans, not by god, so saying that God saw the events are merely unsubstantiated claims or opinions.

Beside that. Much of the modern English translations of the Old Testament are based on the Hebrew Masoretic Text. While the Masoretic Text originated in the 3rd century CE, only the later manuscripts survived, eg the Aleppo Codex (10th century) and the Leningrad Codex (11th century). Other sources like the Greek translation, the Septuagint Bible, survived in multiple manuscripts, between 3rd and 5th centuries CE, conflicts with the Masoretic Text, especially in regarding to the ages of the patriarchs, in Genesis 5 & 11.

The Septuagint is still being used by the Greek Orthodox Church, and the Septuagint were translated for other eastern churches, such as in the Slavic languages (Eg Serbian, Slovak, Slovenian, Russian, etc).

For instance, Adam was 130 when Seth was born, given in the Masoretic Texts and western translations. Whereas in the Septuagint, Adam was 230 years old, when Seth was born. The Septuagint have also added extra 100 years to Seth (hence 205 in Septuagint), when Enosh was born, etc with other patriarchs.

if I remember correctly, Goliath’s also differed between Masoretic & Septuagint.

 

[cladking]

The Genesis stories of Creation and Flood are indeed based on Babylonian creation myths (eg Enūma Eliš (Epic of Creation), Epic of Atrahasis & Epic of Gilgamesh (Nineveh has tablet 11, which contain the story of Utnapishtim), which in turn were based on even older Sumerian myths (eg Eridu Genesis (eg Ziusudra), Enki and Ninmah, Song of the Hoe, and allusions of Ziusudra in the poem called the Death of Bilgames).

The Genesis connection to Babylonian myths were most likely learned by Jews who were living in exile at Babylon as hostages, during the 6th century BCE. There are no older versions of Genesis, dating to the Bronze Age (c 3100 - c 1050 BCE)

It is remarkable that you know so much. You not only know all the stories and writing but can trace them through a period that most writing has been lost in its entirety!

Apropos of nothing in particular there was a very famous historian named "Manetho" who wrote several volumes on history. This was much much later when much much more writing is known and has survived. Despite being the most famous historian of the era and having been so prolific none of his writing survives.

Your history is just like your "science"; mostly extrapolation. You don't see any holes in your knowledge because you believe that beliefs trump facts. You believe interpolation and extrapolation are the same thing as actual evidence and actual evidence is as good as experiment.

I believe you couldn't be more wrong but more importantly it is impossible to know such things. We can say only what we see and can not discount the massive amounts we can't see at all or has been utterly lost.

Which raises the more important question that is always ducked by those who support the narrative: Why is 100% of history from before 2500 BC missing from the record? Why is there virtually no history at all recorded from between 2500 BC and 2000 BC (the tower of babel)? There are hundreds even thousands of data points after 2000 BC. Even though all of Manetho's work has been lost there are still lots and lots of actual history recorded.

So what date do you think some religious zealot dreamed up the tower of babel and why did he do it? Was he just trying to use up paper and ink?

 

[gnostic]

It is remarkable that you know so much. You not only know all the stories and writing but can trace them through a period that most writing has been lost in its entirety!

you cannot say what Genesis myths as true, and then ignore older myths that exist prior to Jews being exiled to Babylon and becoming aware of Babylonian myths in the 6th century BCE. The Genesis is not as old as Christian’s believed, and Genesis is definitely not eyewitness accounts any more than the Babylonian stories.

Those Sumerian and Babylonian texts that I have listed are not lost.

what you seemed to be ignoring is that the biblical Babel is not historical account, so all these years that you talked about the Tower of Babel are based on fiction that you have distorted with your own fiction.

Apropos of nothing in particular there was a very famous historian named "Manetho" who wrote several volumes on history. This was much much later when much much more writing is known and has survived. Despite being the most famous historian of the era and having been so prolific none of his writing survives.

why are talking about Manetho?

Manetho only wrote about Egyptian history, so I very much doubt Manetho was aware of Genesis story about the Tower of Babel.

I am only interested in history that record events that can be verified with either physical evidence or independent sources that can verify the event. I preferred the contemporary records that have been recorded in stone stele or written on cylinders, over Manetho.

no other sources verify such tower existing 2000 BCE, which is your proposed date for Babel.

 

[gnostic]

This point stands. Only people who believe in science try to live their lives by science.

The most stupidest claim, ever.

 

[cladking]

why are talking about Manetho?

The older something is the less likely it survives.

Even though Manetho's work is gone from the 200's BC you apparently have access to everything from thousands of years earlier. Even though no history survives from before 2000 BC you even know the origin of the tower of babel.

The true Bible scholars are believers in science who know the meaning, origin, literal meaning, and lack of veracity in every single line. They know the meaning of every line and can prove it's fiction, based on made up stories, and every single way in which it might be parsed is false.

 

[viole]

It is my hypothesis that scientific developments are usually about 500 years behind what religions teach us now. What do you guys think about this?

So, you guys came up with microelectronics, and semiconductors, and the underlying Quantum Mechanics that explain those, in the 15th Century, right?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Little Dragon]

I love when inchoate statements are introduced by threads sporting inane titles.

I thought it was an attempt at satire.