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Science shall unite all people? What do you think?

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The motto on your country's flag 'order and progress' is inspired by Auguste Comte's 19th C Religion of Humanity is it not?

486px-Flag_of_Brazil.svg.png
Yeah. The guy was just nuts, I will tell you that much.

However, he is also another fine illustration of the odd hopes of late 19th century.

His Positivist Church is all but forgotten, but survives to this day.

Igreja Positivista do Brasil – Wikipédia, a enciclopédia livre

Interestingly, its beliefs are not too dissimilar nor even incompatible with those of Kardecist Spiritism, which is very much alive and influential here.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Amen! Keep politics and science out of the pulpit!
Poltics certainly, and science - unless the minister knows his stuff.

Our last assistant priest had a degree in physics, in fact. But he never introduced science into his sermons. Perhaps that's why!
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Anyone who thinks science is here to unite the people clearly, has NO idea what science is.

You said that over the science developed internet using a science developed computing device and science developed software. I think many people who use science to communicate would not agree with you
 

Earthtank

Active Member
You said that over the science developed internet using a science developed computing device and science developed software. I think many people who use science to communicate would not agree with you

2 things

1) you are trying way toooooooooooooooooooo hard to try to make your point which also shows you have no idea what the goal, strengths, weakness and limitations of science are.

2) Since you want to use social media (this is a type of social media) as an example, you must not have heard of twitter and Facebook (to name a few) which are the main platforms for division today.

Nice attempt to troll but, keep trying. Your troll game is weak.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
2 things

1) you are trying way toooooooooooooooooooo hard to try to make your point which also shows you have no idea what the goal, strengths, weakness and limitations of science are.

2) Since you want to use social media (this is a type of social media) as an example, you must not have heard of twitter and Facebook (to name a few) which are the main platforms for division today.

Nice attempt to troll but, keep trying. Your troll game is weak.

That's not hard, that is just basic technology. You want hard, you want to know about the quantum effects used in your computing device? How the world wide web was discovered at cern and by whom?

And the main platforms used to bring people together. Or have you no friends?

Pointing out your errors is not trolling, but attempted mockery using inadequate information and personal insults based on ignorance most certainly are.

People who live in glass houses comes to mind, as does hypocrisy.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
We don't need science to do that. The bible was not taken altogether literally as early as 200AD, by Origen. All one needs to do is read it with a brain and a classical education, as he did. The irony is that biblical literalism is largely a late c.19th invention - a time when science was making great strides, ironically.

It seems plausible that literalism may in fact have been a reactionary movement, against the disturbing new ideas about the world and man that science was spreading. I have not read this anywhere, but it does seem to fit. Some people react against uncomfortable news by doubling down on their original preconceptions - as we see all around us today.

Look up Armstrong's book 'The Battle For God'. She goes into this in a fair amount of detail, documenting the rise of fundamentalism among the various religions in response to the rise of science.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
You said that over the science developed internet using a science developed computing device and science developed software. I think many people who use science to communicate would not agree with you
True, science is the basis for the technical development of the internet.

And it has, in a sense, brought people together --- to argue, troll, disparage and in general annoy and be annoyed with each other.

It does also, to be somewhat balanced, bring people together in a more positive way.

I would call it a classic "mixed blessing".
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
True, science is the basis for the technical development of the internet.

And it has, in a sense, brought people together --- to argue, troll, disparage and in general annoy and be annoyed with each other.

It does also, to be somewhat balanced, bring people together in a more positive way.

I would call it a classic "mixed blessing".

Again, science gives us the power to do things. We still need the wisdom to do what is right.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Look up Armstrong's book 'The Battle For God'. She goes into this in a fair amount of detail, documenting the rise of fundamentalism among the various religions in response to the rise of science.
Aha, so my instinct was on the right track.

I've just looked up the Wiki article on the book. Interesting point about the distinction between mythos and logos and the way people came to emphasise the logos part in the c.18th., presumably as a consequence of the Enlightenment mindset of the epoch, and to dismiss the mythos. (This actually chimes with what I find personally unsatisfactory about evangelical Protestantism: too much of an effort to make religion a strict, conscious exercise of the will and not enough space for just soaking up the atmosphere and sense of the numinous created by ritual, music and tradition. But that's by the way.)

So it seems, by her account, some people ended up with a conflict between religion and science, basically as a result of trying to take both on the same terms - and this forced them, they thought, to choose, and hence, biblical literalism and an anti-science stance.

Yes it makes sense.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The Bahai Faith was originated in the second half of the 19th century, which was a time of great efervescence and shock from the confrontation between the wider awareness of scientific findings and of religious beliefs worldwide.

Roughly the same time period gave us an impressive array of other ambitious, innovative, daring doctrines that might well have been unworkable before that development, if for no other reason because there simply wasn't enough awareness of other world doctrines. Many of those, including the Bahai Faith, had some form or another of attempts at being all-encompassing or, perhaps more often, all-explaining. It was the time of the Golden Dawn, of Allan Kardec, of H.P. Blavatsky.

From where I stand, most or perhaps all of those movements were largely motivated by the desire to appease a deep disconfort that came with the realization that then-current views and models were simply not very good at explaining the actual variety of stances and beliefs worldwide. Perhaps unavoidably, an urge arose to supplement those views so that they could resume their role of providing safe, reliable explanations of how the world was and how we should deal with it.

One of the manifestations of that urge was, indeed, a sense of urgency - a craving for quick answers to restore the confort of understanding how things were. Some of that craving channeled itself into renewed reverence and greater expectations towards science and the people who were perceived to speak with its authority.

Things are, of course, very different now. There are many reasons why, but I think that it is fairly enlightening to focus on the cultural shock and grim realization that came worldwide during roughly the time of World War I. The time period of Abdul Baha's role in the Bahai Faith was roughly 1892-1921, if I am not mistaken, and coincided well with that period.

World War I was noteworthy, among other reasons, for how deeeply deluded the participating nations were about their own abilities and the reach of their destructive power. I find it illustrative that it was the first conflict to seriously indicate to the British how outdated their proud Cavalry was in the time of widespread, long-range military firearms. It was a series of bitter, bloody frustrations to all people involved, as semester after semester followed with ever grimmer degregation of everyone's dignity and hope. It was the conflict that taught people very sharply that war was not something to look forward to.

I happen to believe that a big part of it was that World War I was made possible by a cultural environment that sort of assumed that everyone was destined to greater reach, greater prosperity, greater renown, and changed that environment something fierce, as so many promises made or implied by so many leaders turned to literal dust and smoke. Overall optimism, however naive, was certainly among the victims of that conflict. And it was a conflict that involved a lot indeed of evidence that science can be used for destructive ends, and that political leaders should not always be trusted. That has been a recurring situation since.

Do you think that optimism is still there or has it dwindled to the point of hopelessness and despair at ever being able to achieve peace in view of such things as the nuclear arms race? Our vision is that humanity is headed for a golden age and that what we are experiencing is the death pangs of the old world, the old ways and the birth pangs of the new and it is a mighty struggle as many want to hold onto viewpoints which are destructive such as racism, supremacy of religion and nationality yet ideas such as universal human rights, religious harmony and unity in diversity through things like interfaith and multiculturalism have dug in their heels and are prepared for a long fight so to speak against the outworn shibboleths of past ages which has led to division, hatreds, wars and prejudices.


When I see even sporting bodies taking a stance against such things as racism and the status of women I can’t help but seeing a new world being born gradually replacing the one that can no longer serve us in a global neighbourhood where the religions, nations and races are intermingling and in such close proximity to one another against the backdrop of the past when it was a much, much clearer ‘us vs them’. Science, by its technological breakthroughs has physically united us to such a point that we are confronted with a new challenge and dilemma of how to get along with each other without having another conflict as the ideas of supremacy of race, religion and nationality can only but drag us back to that ugly paradigm. So with this confrontation the movement towards human rights , equality, cooperation and world solidarity is gaining momentum with each passing day. The danger is it only takes a few madmen who seek to reestablish the supremist ideals of the past to plunge us into another dark period of human history because we have failed to unite and establish peace. I believe that a golden age is humanity’s distant future and heritage but that a dark period may intervene before that happens. I don’t think the forces of unity and acceptance of humanity as one family has become strong enough yet to compete with the voices of extremism and division but that just like the last war forced us to work out some kind of compromise with the establishment of the UN, any new conflict will force us to become a fully fledged world community putting humanity at the top of the agenda as opposed to national, religious or racial rivalries and agendas. We seem to only learn the hard way through war and misery unfortunately. Can it be averted? It depends on us all I think as you know the saying where good people don’t speak out?
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I was very surprised to read this talk and would like to know how others view this talk by Abdul-Baha in America.

Science shall unite all people, making of all the nations, one country, and of all the earth, one homeland. All the religions shall be one, and science can reveal this reality.

I can only post some excerpts as it’s too large to post it all. But this should give readers some idea f the gist and they can read the link provided if they want to research further.

Science Shall Unite all People

Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God.

Through the knowledge bestowed by science human beings can discover the secrets of the Universe.

Agree. With the possible remark that all religions will not turn to one. They will all turn to none.

you forgot an “n”. Probably a spelling mistake that slipped through the spell checker.

ciao

- viole
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
I was very surprised to read this talk and would like to know how others view this talk by Abdul-Baha in America.

Science shall unite all people, making of all the nations, one country, and of all the earth, one homeland. All the religions shall be one, and science can reveal this reality.

I can only post some excerpts as it’s too large to post it all. But this should give readers some idea f the gist and they can read the link provided if they want to research further.

Science Shall Unite all People

Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God.

Through the knowledge bestowed by science human beings can discover the secrets of the Universe.

I think the author might be well intended, but they are mis-understanding science. :)
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
Warfare is an intrinsic motivator for many scientific innovations, and has been for a very long time. Fortresses, armor, weapons, etc. have evolved based on trying to find better ways of killing eachother. Da Vinci and Archimedes made all kinds of war machines just like we do now with our drones and hydrogen bombs. War and siege technicians were always in high demand since the earliest days of written history, and even before then if I were to guess. I don't see this changing any time soon as it's so engrained into who we are as a species.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Agree. With the possible remark that all religions will not turn to one. They will all turn to none.

you forgot an “n”. Probably a spelling mistake that slipped through the spell checker.

ciao

- viole

I don’t think it was a typo. Check the original link. If it is I’ll change it.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Warfare is an intrinsic motivator for many scientific innovations, and has been for a very long time. Fortresses, armor, weapons, etc. have evolved based on trying to find better ways of killing eachother. Da Vinci and Archimedes made all kinds of war machines just like we do now with our drones and hydrogen bombs. War and siege technicians were always in high demand since the earliest days of written history, and even before then if I were to guess. I don't see this changing any time soon as it's so engrained into who we are as a species.

In spite of all that, global extreme poverty and infant mortality have decreased; lifespans, literacy, daily caloric intake have increased in the global aggregate for at least the last 300 years.

Your chance of being murdered in London in the 18th century was several times higher than in Chicago today.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I was very surprised to read this talk and would like to know how others view this talk by Abdul-Baha in America.

Science shall unite all people, making of all the nations, one country, and of all the earth, one homeland. All the religions shall be one, and science can reveal this reality.

I can only post some excerpts as it’s too large to post it all. But this should give readers some idea f the gist and they can read the link provided if they want to research further.

Science Shall Unite all People

Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God.

Through the knowledge bestowed by science human beings can discover the secrets of the Universe.

It was a great talk and full future vision.

"Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God."

Regards Tony
 
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