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Science shall unite all people? What do you think?

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Do you think that optimism is still there or has it dwindled to the point of hopelessness and despair at ever being able to achieve peace in view of such things as the nuclear arms race?

That particular brand of optimism was naive and self-entitled to begin with, and became, well, rather unholy as it came to grow again.

It was associated with Imperialism and with the White Man's Burden back in the day.

Now it is found mostly in dangerous denialism and fundamentalism.

Dangerous as apathy is, we have a far greater need for wisdom than for optimism.


Our vision is that humanity is headed for a golden age and that what we are experiencing is the death pangs of the old world, the old ways and the birth pangs of the new and it is a mighty struggle as many want to hold onto viewpoints which are destructive such as racism, supremacy of religion and nationality yet ideas such as universal human rights, religious harmony and unity in diversity through things like interfaith and multiculturalism have dug in their heels and are prepared for a long fight so to speak against the outworn shibboleths of past ages which has led to division, hatreds, wars and prejudices.

That is pretty much it. But ultimately our best hope is for the proponents of the worst instincts to actually die out as more enlightened people take their place.

There is little ground to be gained by direct confrontation with adherents to dying stances; if anything, that makes them feel that much more determined to cling to their stances and "fight to the end". They hold to those stances in the first place because they have a hard time accepting or even understanding better ones, after all.

It usually does not become easier because other people tell them that they must do it anyway.


When I see even sporting bodies taking a stance against such things as racism and the status of women I can’t help but seeing a new world being born gradually replacing the one that can no longer serve us in a global neighbourhood where the religions, nations and races are intermingling and in such close proximity to one another against the backdrop of the past when it was a much, much clearer ‘us vs them’.

That will happen eventually, but I fear that it will be at a far greater and more tragic cost than I used to expect back in the 1970s.


Science, by its technological breakthroughs has physically united us to such a point that we are confronted with a new challenge and dilemma of how to get along with each other without having another conflict as the ideas of supremacy of race, religion and nationality can only but drag us back to that ugly paradigm.

Indeed, and that has been the case for over a century now. As far back as in WW1 it was already clear that the development of firearms had overgrown the ability of governments to manage their own belicism. It is not too gross an oversimplification to state that the participants of the conflict somehow failed to realize the true capabilities of the weaponry that they were brandishing against each other. It was a population of remote distance butchers that half believed itself to be knights in shining armor.

That situation has not really improved since. That is why we have the USA talking about "life-saving" atomic bombs and killer drones and Middle Easterns willing to kill and die "for God".


So with this confrontation the movement towards human rights , equality, cooperation and world solidarity is gaining momentum with each passing day. The danger is it only takes a few madmen who seek to reestablish the supremist ideals of the past to plunge us into another dark period of human history because we have failed to unite and establish peace.

I have to disagree here. There were always a few madmen and there will still be for a long time. They are hardly decisive in and of themselves, though.

The true problem is that there are far too many people willing and sometimes eager to listen to them. It is the masses, not the so-called "leaders", that need to rise up to the levels of ethical wisdom that have become necessary - and that are, indeed, considerably higher than they were back in the 19th century, because our reach has likewise increased drammatically.


I believe that a golden age is humanity’s distant future and heritage but that a dark period may intervene before that happens.

It will and it is. We are already having to deal with levels of nationalism, belicism and plain old extremism that were unthinkable even 40 years ago. And there is little indication of short term improvements.

I don’t think the forces of unity and acceptance of humanity as one family has become strong enough yet to compete with the voices of extremism and division but that just like the last war forced us to work out some kind of compromise with the establishment of the UN, any new conflict will force us to become a fully fledged world community putting humanity at the top of the agenda as opposed to national, religious or racial rivalries and agendas.

Well, yes. But far too many of us just Do Not Want To Accept that. Tragedy will doubtlessly ensue.

We seem to only learn the hard way through war and misery unfortunately. Can it be averted? It depends on us all I think as you know the saying where good people don’t speak out?

Yes, pretty much that.
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
In spite of all the, global extreme poverty and infant mortality have decreased; lifespans, literacy, daily caloric intake have increased in the global aggregate for at least the last 300 years.

Your chance of being murdered in London in the 18th century was several times higher than in Chicago today.

True! There have been a lot of positive advancements in science as well, such as vaccines. Functional life spans continue to increase, and we live happier and healthier lives than ever. Today is the best time to be alive vs. every other time in the past. All that's well and good, but it doesn't take much to shake that.

Look at Hurricane Katrina. When food, clean water, and basic necessities became scarce, a mad max situation unfolded in New Orleans. It's easy for people to be pleasant with eachother when things are comfortable, but when that changes, bankers and fast food workers become bandits real quick. It's a negative aspect of ourselves, but it is an aspect that comes to the surface when pressure is applied.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Warfare is an intrinsic motivator for many scientific innovations, and has been for a very long time. Fortresses, armor, weapons, etc. have evolved based on trying to find better ways of killing eachother. Da Vinci and Archimedes made all kinds of war machines just like we do now with our drones and hydrogen bombs. War and siege technicians were always in high demand since the earliest days of written history, and even before then if I were to guess. I don't see this changing any time soon as it's so engrained into who we are as a species.
You are talking here about technology rather than science. I struggle to think of advances in actual science i.e. new knowledge about nature, that have been motivated by warfare. Quite a few have been motivated by disease, though.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...Science shall unite all people, making of all the nations, one country, and of all the earth, one homeland. All the religions shall be one, and science can reveal this reality.....

Science is only like a tool, it does what people make it t do. Information that is acquired by scientific method can be used to unite and it can be made to scatter people. Pure science is only method to observe things. What is observed may be used against some group, like for example against Christians and then it doesn’t unite.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Science provides modern medicine and the sorts of technology that makes life easier. How would that bind people together?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Science provides modern medicine and the sorts of technology that makes life easier. How would that bind people together?
The argument would be that:

1) science has enabled technology, in transport and communication (cheap jet travel, phone, TV, internet), which has made people far better informed about one another's culture and conditions than in previous eras, and

2) science has dispelled various myths about race that divided us and highlighted common issues for humanity (climate change, pollution, spread of diseases etc) which can be tackled together.

I think we do tend to take a lot of this for granted and have to make an effort to put ourselves in the shoes of someone in, say the c.18th, in order to recognise the progress that has been made.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God.


You mean, that science will reveal religions to be nothing but primitive superstition?

:)

Through the knowledge bestowed by science human beings can discover the secrets of the Universe.

Sure.

So?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Science create the internet where the world interacts. A very substantial contribution to unity. Through the internet we learn about each other’s cultures.

The internet in an engineering feat. Science made it possible, sure, by coming up with theories of physics that enabled enegineers to create micro processors and such. But scientists didn't create the internet. Engineers did, using the findings of science.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I think Bahaullah like every human has made a choice of belief.
The one he has chosen evidently, is not the one Jesus taught, and advised us to follow, because Jesus said, the ruler of this world is coming, and has no hold on him. Jesus says, he has conquer the world, and those who follow him, will be conquerors also.

So those who are looking for the world to unite are in for a surprise, as Jesus said it will be conquered, and in more ways than one. Not only will the righteous be victorious in keeping integrity in the world, while remaining no part of it, but Jesus, as king of kings, and lord of lords - the conquering lion of the tribe of Judah... he will remove all existing things, in opposition to the kingdom of God.
Only then will the world unite, but this will be accomplished through the kingdom of God... nothing else. (Revelation 17:12-14)


So in other words, your version of "to unite the world" basically comes down to removing everyone that doesn't agree with you.

So if 3 people agree and 7 don't, you can just kill the 7 and then the world will be "united" because the 3 that remain "agree".

That doesn't really sound valid as an idea of "a united world".
To unite the world, the point is to overcome the differences - not just kill them off.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
You mean, that science will reveal religions to be nothing but primitive superstition?

:)



Sure.

So?
I think you may be asking the wrong person. These passages are quoting from an address given by a cleric, rather than expressing the point of view of the poster.

You may note the poster expresses surprise at the content.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
What science? Real science, pseudoscience, or the Baha'i concept of science which is weighing things through the lens of the statements of Bahaullah?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
What science? Real science, pseudoscience, or the Baha'i concept of science which is weighing things through the lens of the statements of Bahaullah?

Whenever a Manifestation of God appears He releases new energies into the world and new sciences and knowledge are born. All science is approved by the Manifestation that is for the betterment of the world not its destruction so sciences that created nuclear weapons and such are not approved of but sciences which better the life of people such as world communications and travel and improve our health are encouraged.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
I was very surprised to read this talk and would like to know how others view this talk by Abdul-Baha in America.

Science shall unite all people, making of all the nations, one country, and of all the earth, one homeland. All the religions shall be one, and science can reveal this reality.

I can only post some excerpts as it’s too large to post it all. But this should give readers some idea f the gist and they can read the link provided if they want to research further.

Science Shall Unite all People

Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God.

Through the knowledge bestowed by science human beings can discover the secrets of the Universe.
This is true for me also.
Both Science and Spirituality are useful to understand more about this mystery in the universe and the mystery in ourselves. I like the below quote:

Science & Spirituality:
The Other Half of Each Other

Science looks outwards into the outer physical world, while spirituality looks inwards into the inner spiritual worlds. Scientists study how GOD's Universal laws manifest at the physical vibratory level, while spirituality studies how they manifest at higher vibratory levels. So there is no conflict between science and spirituality. They are each studying two different worlds. And the wisdom and understanding gained by each of these valid, helpful paths is indispensable to humanity's safe progress. In fact, the deep insights of both are needed if we are to wisely,
einstein-thoughts-of-god-quote-lr-w-text-400w-opt2.jpg
compassionately and safely travel into the unknown future.

Science & Spirituality
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Science is only like a tool, it does what people make it t do. Information that is acquired by scientific method can be used to unite and it can be made to scatter people. Pure science is only method to observe things. What is observed may be used against some group, like for example against Christians and then it doesn’t unite.
That's a good point.
Science is not a tool used to tell us about morality either, and since it is the mind of man that is responsible for his decisions - good or bad. Science has already failed in that.
The only thing it can probably unite are robots with the same program... for a while at least, or sadly, people with a cell phone or tablet on social media... but that's the only thing they would have in common.
They would still be the ones who bully others online, and other bad things. Let me just stop.
Science is not the tool for unity of thought, and that's where it has to start.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
This is true for me also.
Both Science and Spirituality are useful to understand more about this mystery in the universe and the mystery in ourselves. I like the below quote:

That is so, so awesome. Thank you very much for that.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
You are talking here about technology rather than science. I struggle to think of advances in actual science i.e. new knowledge about nature, that have been motivated by warfare. Quite a few have been motivated by disease, though.

The bomb.
 
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