Science vs Faith

[McBell]

Facts do fit my self-interest, yes. The story is what it is regardless of presentation.

I admit I was born at 7:35 am.
But it wasn't THIS morning.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

I admit I was born at 7:35 am.
But it wasn't THIS morning.

What specifically leads you to think I assume you were born yesterday?

 

[McBell]

What specifically leads you to think I assume you were born yesterday?

Post #240

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

How would you represent the story differently?
After all, my point is that science and capitalism are polar opposites
because if all science was open to honest evaluation, then people
would not be able to corner the capitalist market with their discoveries.

That's why the commies got into space first.
That's why their legacy is the most viable form of space-travel.
That's why the Americans had to fake their lunar landings.

 

[SkepticX]

We are talking about human communities....egregores are not magical or supernatural....just natural...but once established, they are a force that can influence the human mind of those attuned regardless of the nature of the community, religious or otherwise..merely because it 'resonates' at the mental level with the thoughts and administrations of the human adherents. However as I explained earlier, proper religion is not concerned with the material world, but the spiritual, and thus egregores can not help directly with the transcending of the material world....but they may be of some benefit in fellowship and support wrt the material aspect of life's 'journey'.

So I gather you don't see spiritual as a supernatural thing. We may not actually have any disagreement here at all ...

What are spirit and spirituality in your perception, and upon what is that perception based?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So I gather you don't see spiritual as a supernatural thing. We may not actually have any disagreement here at all ...

What are spirit and spirituality in your perception, and upon what is that perception based?

Correct...

Spirit is the animating principle of the manifested universe.....it is the energy that underlies all existence...including matter. This understanding comes from many years of study....theosophy, religion, and science...and the natural intuitive faculty development from life's experience enhanced by my religious practice and the opportunity to work in the field of leading edge radio and electronics....(though I am long since retired).

 

[flsabeti]

How can 108 elements get together and create different organs and then these organs get together and create a system which is different from other systems like dog, cat, etc and then one system that we belong to it that is humans rule over all other system, even though within our system there all kinds of animalistic humans if it is not because of Holy Spirit and his angles?

 

[Sapiens]

How can 108 elements get together and create different organs and then these organs get together and create a system which is different from other systems like dog, cat, etc and then one system that we belong to it that is humans rule over all other system, even though within our system there all kinds of animalistic humans if it is not because of Holy Spirit and his angles?

At best that is what is known as an argument from ignorance, at worst ... gibberish.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

At best that is what is known as an argument from ignorance, at worst ... gibberish.

That is a bit hard...I see the gist of the post as intuitively correct...though I would not expect an atheist to 'see' it...which is ok..

 

[Thief]

I don't know, if you have some gripe about what a PHD says hopefully its well founded. I think the faith part your talking about in science comes from the sheer complexity that a layman can't quite grasp it fully. Your not describing faith though, your describing ignorance. I would still be ignorant if I'm just taking someones word for it.

and you trust nothing told to you?
you would insist all that you know is by your own experiment?

you must be very busy....
and not believing anything you read here at the forum

 

[SkepticX]

Correct...

Spirit is the animating principle of the manifested universe.....it is the energy that underlies all existence...including matter. This understanding comes from many years of study....theosophy, religion, and science...and the natural intuitive faculty development from life's experience enhanced by my religious practice and the opportunity to work in the field of leading edge radio and electronics....(though I am long since retired).

Does George Lukas know you're using his material?

Eh?

Heh ...

You've got to admit it does sound like The Force or the Jedi.

Seriously though--any examples of how do you know this energy exists and is as you describe?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Does George Lukas know you're using his material?

Eh?

Heh ...

You've got to admit it does sound like The Force or the Jedi.

Seriously though--any examples of how do you know this energy exists and is as you describe?

You....or are you an android? As you delve deeper into matter, you find that there is no such thing as a true vacuum...the intra-atomic space is occupied by zpe, whose vibrationary wavelengths extend down to the infinitesimal.... Zpe is omnipresent and is known by other names according to what aspect of it the respective disciplinary theory is involved in utilizing it.....Higgs field...Dark Energy...Quantum Vacuum, etc... Of old this energy or aspect thereof has been known as the Aether...and or Spirit...etc..

 

[`mud]

Just standing here counting the harmonics,
and the ripples within the waves of particles,
and the 'nothingness' amongst everything.
From whence it comes, I know not !
~
'mud

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Just standing here counting the harmonics,
and the ripples within the waves of particles,
and the 'nothingness' amongst everything.
From whence it comes, I know not !
~
'mud

It's that quantum foam, innit.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You....or are you an android? As you delve deeper into matter, you find that there is no such thing as a true vacuum...the intra-atomic space is occupied by zpe, whose vibrationary wavelengths extend down to the infinitesimal.... Zpe is omnipresent and is known by other names according to what aspect of it the respective disciplinary theory is involved in utilizing it.....Higgs field...Dark Energy...Quantum Vacuum, etc... Of old this energy or aspect thereof has been known as the Aether...and or Spirit...etc..

You were doing OK up until "or spirit", which is veering off into religious belief.

 

[`mud]

hey Rick,
I'm really happy that none of my leavings will become blended with any ones spirit !
I'm also wishing that none of my remains become Dark Energy !!!!!
I'll just keep my remains myself, thank you !
Cheeeeeeeeeeesssssiiiieeeeewwwwweeeeee !
~
'mud

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You were doing OK up until "or spirit", which is veering off into religious belief.

But you discount the intuitive faculty in man of old to apprehend the presence of an omnipresent energy, and, the label given to it was 'spirit'.......religious belief about it is another matter....same for 'aether'.....'chi'....etc.. Heck...the others are just labels too....and what science believes it knows about QV, Dark Energy, etc..are mostly hypotheses also.....

 

[SkepticX]

You....or are you an android? As you delve deeper into matter, you find that there is no such thing as a true vacuum...the intra-atomic space is occupied by zpe, whose vibrationary wavelengths extend down to the infinitesimal.... Zpe is omnipresent and is known by other names according to what aspect of it the respective disciplinary theory is involved in utilizing it.....Higgs field...Dark Energy...Quantum Vacuum, etc... Of old this energy or aspect thereof has been known as the Aether...and or Spirit...etc..

But you're still apparently just presuming the connections and properties you're describing. Just because a property exists doesn't mean that a given explanation is validated. And you're being too vague about the properties in question and using lingo rather than actual explanation to fill the gaps. When you can explain mechanisms and properties and such rather than using labels as intellectual patches for those gaps, then you may have something.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

But you're still apparently just presuming the connections and properties you're describing. Just because a property exists doesn't mean that a given explanation is validated. And you're being too vague about the properties in question and using lingo rather than actual explanation to fill the gaps. When you can explain mechanisms and properties and such rather than using labels as intellectual patches for those gaps, then you may have something.

Skeptic X, being a skeptic you will naturally mostly filter everything out that transcends the materialistic science taught at school and propagated in the popular media.....no one can think outside the circle of their belief system. If you want to understand metaphysics, religions, mysticism, etc.,....you will need to put as many hours of study on your own initiative into it as you have in science ...there is little I can say in a few posts to convince you of the credibility behind these subjects even if you could think outside the circle....it requires extensive understanding in areas your mind has not delved into deeply.....and understanding the limitations of materialistic understanding.

 

[McBell]

Skeptic X, being a skeptic you will naturally mostly filter everything out that transcends the materialistic science taught at school and propagated in the popular media.....no one can think outside the circle of their belief system. If you want to understand metaphysics, religions, mysticism, etc.,....you will need to put as many hours of study on your own initiative into it as you have in science ...there is little I can say in a few posts to convince you of the credibility behind these subjects even if you could think outside the circle....it requires extensive understanding in areas your mind has not delved into deeply.....and understanding the limitations of materialistic understanding.

what a load of bull ****.