Scientific Method is useless in religion?

[Ben Dhyan]

What gap?

The one between non-life and life!

 

[Monk Of Reason]

The one between non-life and life!

It is an imagined one. I explained this twice already. Is the blood in your body alive? Is the carbon in your bones alive? Is the oxygen in your lungs alive? The macro systems based off of simple, trending to complex, chemical acitivty is all simply built through chemical replication. Nothing more. We are not made of "living stuff" we are made of non-living stuff animated chemically.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

We are not made of "living stuff" we are made of non-living stuff animated chemically.

But non-living stuff and living stuff are both animated to some degree by chemistry.....what is the difference between chemistry of non-living stuff and living stuff?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

But non-living stuff and living stuff are both animated to some degree by chemistry.....what is the difference between chemistry of non-living stuff and living stuff?

Self Replication in the form of heredity.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

/

Self Replication in the form of heredity.

That does not address my question...is there a change in the principles of chemistry at work between non-living and living substance? Iow, how many types of chemistry are there...one...or more than one?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

/
That does not address my question...is there a change in the principles of chemistry at work between non-living and living substance? Iow, how many types of chemistry are there...one...or more than one?

There are several categories of chemisty but there are not different "kinds" of chemisty as in distinct differnet mechanisms. All use the table of elements and all function on the same rules. The chemistry that keeps us alive is no different than the chemistry we used to keep our pools clear. We are the universe. Fundamentally there is nothing different between life and non-life on a chemical or physical level. We are a wave of chemical energy.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There are several categories of chemisty but there are not different "kinds" of chemisty as in distinct differnet mechanisms. All use the table of elements and all function on the same rules. The chemistry that keeps us alive is no different than the chemistry we used to keep our pools clear. We are the universe. Fundamentally there is nothing different between life and non-life on a chemical or physical level. We are a wave of chemical energy.

Precisely.....so we are back to the question of where life comes from....there is but one set of the universal 'laws' of chemistry affecting all substance....it follows then that the ordering principle of life is embedded in the universal 'laws' of chemistry does it not?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Precisely.....so we are back to the question of where life comes from....there is but one set of the universal 'laws' of chemistry affecting all substance....it follows then that the ordering principle of life is embedded in the universal 'laws' of chemistry does it not?

The possiblity of life is in fact allowable in the natural laws of the universe. I don't think people have argued against that one.

 

[McBell]

The possiblity of life is in fact allowable in the natural laws of the universe. I don't think people have argued against that one.

I disagree.
There all manner of people who argue that life is against nature.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I disagree.
There all manner of people who argue that life is against nature.

I meant in the context between the two sides of creationism and evolution. I"m sure there is someone somewhere that argues any given point.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The possiblity of life is in fact allowable in the natural laws of the universe. I don't think people have argued against that one.

So then I draw the conclusion that life is natural and the cause is universally omnipresent...thus it follows logically that the universe itself is the source of life....yes?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

So then I draw the conclusion that life is natural and the cause is universally omnipresent...thus it follows logically that the universe itself is the source of life....yes?

So far you agree with the science. I'm waiting on the catch. Don't tease me.

 

[McBell]

I meant in the context between the two sides of creationism and evolution. I"m sure there is someone somewhere that argues any given point.

I suspect it is much more common that you think.
I mean, look at all those in the creation vs evolution subforum arguing for god.
Seems to me they tend to argue against life being natural.
I mean, if god truly has to create life, then how can it be "natural"?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I suspect it is much more common that you think.
I mean, look at all those in the creation vs evolution subforum arguing for god.
Seems to me they tend to argue against life being natural.
I mean, if god truly has to create life, then how can it be "natural"?

But life is good. And if life is unnatural how can it be good? Can unnatural be good? If so then homosexuality being unnatural doesn't make it bad? Wait....continuity no...it has been ripped.

 

[Thief]

So then I draw the conclusion that life is natural and the cause is universally omnipresent...thus it follows logically that the universe itself is the source of life....yes?

no....
I keep the creation separate of the Creator
I do not confuse the Artist with his handiwork
(no point talking to a rock)

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So far you agree with the science. I'm waiting on the catch. Don't tease me.

Well as a subscriber to pantheism....there is no catch...the universe is alive...to think otherwise is to suppose universal life comes from universal non-life...yes?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

no....
I keep the creation separate of the Creator
I do not confuse the Artist with his handiwork
(no point talking to a rock)

Do you think the universe itself is dead...that is, it is not alive?

 

[Thief]

Do you think the universe itself is dead...that is, it is not alive?

and I do not confuse dead men with the living

the line was drawn elsewhere....
let the dead bury the dead

(which of course refers to the manner of thought and feeling)

 

[Ben Dhyan]

and I do not confuse dead men with the living

the line was drawn elsewhere....
let the dead bury the dead

(which of course refers to the manner of thought and feeling)

Ok...then when your body is dead...will the cells in your body go on living.....that is the comparison, not one between mortal beings......we live, move, and have out being in something greater....is that something greater dead or alive?

 

[Thief]

Ok...then when your body is dead...will the cells in your body go on living.....that is the comparison......we live, move, and have out being in something greater....is that something greater dead or alive?

the quote I used comes from the new testament
to point out.....even as you breathe, your frame of mind sets up for life after death
or your frame of mind lays you to the grave

Chemistry happens without life
Chemistry happens with life

and you seem confused