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Scientists create living eating and growing machines...

By convincing argument and evidence maybe. But yours is one of the least convincing i've ever seen.

Oh come on now.

Least convincing ya say. I give the most convincing.

There is order, design and information in the world. From our experience, no order, design and information comes from nothing, so, intelligence did it.

Hows that not convincing? I have proof that it IS convincing. Because IM convinced by it. Therefore i know its convincing.

Yes, but do you know what "period" in this context actually means?

No, tell me.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Its not we theists that believe in magic, its you atheists that believe in magic.

You gotter backwards..

Really. Theists such as yourself, believe the bible's an accurate story: God Spoke.

And ... like freaking magic, from nothing, the Universe Magically Appears.

One instant: Void. Nothingness. Nada. Great Emptiness*.

Next instant: *poof** the entire Universe.

One has to ask: How did God's Voice travel ..... in a vacuum?







* empty, exactly like theistic claims... point of fact.
 

Darkstorn

This shows how unique i am.
Oh come on now.

Least convincing ya say. I give the most convincing.

There is order, design and information in the world. From our experience, no order, design and information comes from nothing, so, intelligence did it.

Hows that not convincing? I have proof that it IS convincing. Because IM convinced by it. Therefore i know its convincing.

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia

Circular reasoning - Wikipedia

Divine fallacy - Wikipedia

I don't find it surprising at all that you're convinced by logical fallacies. But i'm not. Because i understand you're making a fallacious argument you just pulled out of your ***. That's neither proof nor evidence.

No, tell me.

But then you'd understand how babies are made, and there's already overpopulation in the world.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Its not we theists that believe in magic, its you atheists that believe in magic.

You gotter backwards.
NO! Magic is effect without cause; or without mechanism. Religion claims creation by the word of God, by His mighty hand or by His breath. Religion doesn't go into the mechanism of creation and it doesn't test its claims. It relies on magical creation and interventions.

Science is the opposite of magic. It's a research method. It investigates How. Anything supernatural or magical, like God or magic poofing, is outside the purview of science. Science, thus, has nothing to say about Who.
God design the baby birth system.
Natural selection designed the baby birth system.;)
 
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Really. Theists such as yourself, believe the bible's an accurate story: God Spoke.

And ... like freaking magic, from nothing, the Universe Magically Appears.

Not from nothing, but from God. God is something, not nothing.

Hence, no magic. Many atheists on the other hand believe the universe came literally from nothing. Therefore THEY believe in magic.

One instant: Void. Nothingness. Nada. Great Emptiness*.

I dont believe that.

Next instant: *poof** the entire Universe.

I dont believe it played out like that either.

One has to ask: How did God's Voice travel ..... in a vacuum?


God saying something means he created sound.

* empty, exactly like theistic claims... point of fact.

:cool::)
 

Darkstorn

This shows how unique i am.
Not from nothing, but from God. God is something, not nothing.

Hence, no magic. Many atheists on the other hand believe the universe came literally from nothing. Therefore THEY believe in magic.

False. You're using a strawman argument. Another logical fallacy. No one is saying that.

God saying something means he created sound.



:cool::)

This is literally starting to feel like arguing with a child who doesn't understand what's going on around him / her.

Yeah, we're convinced by statements like "God saying something means he created sound." Because we're 5 year olds.

Seriously. Whoever said it's not worth replying to this guy, was entirely correct.
 
NO! Magic is effect without cause; or without mechanism. Religion claims creation by the word of God, by His mighty hand or by His breath. Religion doesn't go into the mechanism of creation and it doesn't test its claims. It relies on magical creation and interventions.

Science is the opposite of magic. It's a research method. It investigates How. Anything supernatural or magical, like God or magic poofing, is outside the purview of science. Science, thus, has nothing to say about Who.

Then why do some atheists believe the universe came from nothing then?


Natural selection designed the baby birth system.;)

How can selection create?
 
False. You're using a strawman argument. Another logical fallacy. No one is saying that.

Thats false because ive heard and debated with some atheists that believe the universe came by nothing.

This is literally starting to feel like arguing with a child who doesn't understand what's going on around him / her.

Yea, whatever.

Yeah, we're convinced by statements like "God saying something means he created sound." Because we're 5 year olds.

Just believe it because its true. Thats basically how atheists argue too.

Seriously. Whoever said it's not worth replying to this guy, was entirely correct.

To be frank, i think debating with all atheists is not worth it. I do it anyway though. Sometimes i do it in-depth and sometimes not, like now.
 

Darkstorn

This shows how unique i am.
Thats false because ive heard and debated with some atheists that believe the universe came by nothing.

You're either lying or you're incapable of understanding what people tell you. I'm actually starting to bet on the latter. I don't think you're a liar, just an uneducated person. They do not believe what you claim here.

So recant that or provide evidence. Those are your options.

Yea, whatever.

Cool.


Just believe it because its true. Thats basically how atheists argue too.

False again. You see people here post long informative posts and you respond with simplistic, and often times plain naive one liners. Like this. You've done nothing of benefit for your own cause.

To be frank, i think debating with all atheists is not worth it. I do it anyway though. Sometimes i do it in-depth and sometimes not, like now.

I've read your previous posts / threads. That's a lie. You're never in depth. You don't even research links given to you, you just ask questions endlessly and never research anything. You didn't even click the link on the first post: You're arguing based on the TITLE alone. That much is obvious.

They do because ive heard them say it verbatum.

Give me one post as evidence for your claim or recant it. You're not correct.

Because he creates matter by means of his own energy substance and mind. Then forms and designs it.

If you don't know the mechanics, then you can make no claims of how it happens. You clearly don't know the mechanics your own god uses. You're just making a claim equivalent of him just doing it. I.E Magic.

How did you get this information?
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Also, we both have an inference. You infer that all the order and design in the world comes from either nothing+time+chance or it was infinately always here.
No again. The physical and mathematical constants were created with the universe.After that, no intervention or intentional manipulation was needed.

The things we see around us are the result of the interplay of matter and energy, in accord with these constants. There are understandable mechanisms behind weather, crystal formation or evolution
I infer an intelligence was always here and he made all the order and design.
Who made the intelligence?
Did He sit back with His feet up after He made the universe or is He actively tweaking things (ie: actively suspending or violating His own laws of Nature)?
My inferences is more logical then yours. Therefore you would be serving your intellect by agreeing with me and then we join forces and take on the rest of t he atheists here. Sound like a good deal?
But you don't seem to be using your intellect.
Do you assume all who believe in science or disavow magic are atheists?
 
You're either lying or you're incapable of understanding what people tell you. I'm actually starting to bet on the latter. I don't think you're a liar, just an uneducated person. They do not believe what you claim here.

Oh, they sure did say it, verbatum. Sure did.

Even richard dawkins said it. And that kruez guy.

So recant that or provide evidence. Those are your options.

Look up richard dawkins sayin it.


Im glad we agree.

False again. You see people here post long informative posts and you respond with simplistic, and often times plain naive one liners. Like this. You've done nothing of benefit for your own cause.

Thats because im smart enough to keep things straght to the point.

I've read your previous posts / threads. That's a lie. You're never in depth.

Lol, you read em all huh? Boy, that musta took a LOOOOONG time.

You don't even research links given to you, you just ask questions endlessly and never research anything. You didn't even click the link on the first post: You're arguing based on the TITLE alone. That much is obvious.

Actually, i did click and read the link. And i also research too, despite the fact its boring as ****. Although sometimes its not. I like learning hands on. Thats my moto.

Give me one post as evidence for your claim or recant it. You're not correct.

Richard dawkins.

If you don't know the mechanics, then you can make no claims of how it happens. You clearly don't know the mechanics your own god uses. You're just making a claim equivalent of him just doing it. I.E Magic.

How did you get this information?

I told you the mechanics.

God created matter out of himself, then formed and designed it.
 

Darkstorn

This shows how unique i am.
Oh, they sure did say it, verbatum. Sure did.

No.

Even richard dawkins said it. And that kruez guy.

Show me where. I'm still sticking by my claim that you're probably misunderstanding what people tell you. Based upon your misunderstanding regarding just about anything people have ever told you here for example.

Look up richard dawkins sayin it.

Your claim, your burden. You do it, or for the lack of a better anecdote: Shut up or put up.

Thats because im smart enough to keep things straght to the point.

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, people cannot objectively evaluate their competence or incompetence.

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

Lol, you read em all huh? Boy, that musta took a LOOOOONG time.

I read them until about december, 2017. If you haven't posted one in-depth comment in that entire time, then i don't know how far i should be looking at.

Actually, i did click and read the link. And i also research too, despite the fact its boring as ****. Although sometimes its not. I like learning hands on. Thats my moto.

Yes, sure. Again, Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Richard dawkins.

Again, show me.

I told you the mechanics.

God created matter out of himself, then formed and designed it.

How? Magic? And how do you know this? Based on a book written by humans? Are you trying to say you're basing a scientific argument entirely upon your personal incredulity and faith? Yeahhhhhhh....
 

Yes

Show me where. I'm still sticking by my claim that you're probably misunderstanding what people tell you. Based upon your misunderstanding regarding just about anything people have ever told you here for example.

Oh of course.....https://www.google.com/search?q=ric...droid-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Your claim, your burden. You do it, or for the lack of a better anecdote: Shut up or put up.

Hey now, be nice, dont tell me shut up, youl hurt my feelins.


Da kroger effect eh?

I read them until about december, 2017. If you haven't posted one in-depth comment in that entire time, then i don't know how far i should be looking at.

You read 2 years of my posts? All of them in that 2 years? Get outta here, lol. Boy, you really must think im interesting. :glomp:

Either that or you bs in me.

Or, you dont know what indepth looks like, lol.

Yes, sure. Again, Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Oh yes, the koger effect.

Again, show me.

How? Magic? And how do you know this? Based on a book written by humans? Are you trying to say you're basing a scientific argument entirely upon your personal incredulity and faith? Yeahhhhhhh....

I know it because it makes sense. We see order and design in the world. Design implies a designer.

God is eternal, infinite in size energy, hes a concious, intelligent being. All he needs to do is imagine or picture what he wants to create, then it happens. The universe is INSIDE God because God is bigger then space.
 
No again. The physical and mathematical constants were created with the universe.After that, no intervention or intentional manipulation was needed.

Created with the universe huh? How did dat happen?

The things we see around us are the result of the interplay of matter and energy, in accord with these constants. There are understandable mechanisms behind weather, crystal formation or evolution

Why was it made that way?

Who made the intelligence?
Did He sit back with His feet up after He made the universe or is He actively tweaking things (ie: actively suspending or violating His own laws of Nature)?
But you don't seem to be using your intellect.
Do you assume all who believe in science or disavow magic are atheists?

No one made God.

Some atheists believe in magic, as in universe from nothing and some believe in a infinite universe.
 

Darkstorn

This shows how unique i am.

Seriously, not a kindergarten. You need to show it to be true or else you're just a liar. Now i'm saying a willing one.


You should probably read your own google result then. It doesn't show what you think it does.

Hey now, be nice, dont tell me shut up, youl hurt my feelins.

It's a saying. It's not meant to hurt anyone's feelings. You were complaining that i was using too advanced language earlier. I simplified it for you. You know what Shut up or put up means, correct? If so, i've conveyed the meaning i intended.

Da kroger effect eh?

Should probably read the link. So you'd understand what it means.

You read 2 years of my posts? All of them in that 2 years? Get outta here, lol. Boy, you really must think im interesting. :glomp:[]

Either that or you bs in me.

Or, you dont know what indepth looks like, lol.

You haven't made that many posts in that time. You've been here a LONG time. I read them in less than 2 hours. Mostly while i was taking a dump because actually typing while being on a phone is a pain. So i read instead.

Oh yes, the koger effect.

Making fun of your own condition is kind of not healthy.


I know it because it makes sense. We see order and design in the world. Design implies a designer.

God is eternal, infinite in size energy, hes a concious, intelligent being. All he needs to do is imagine or picture what he wants to create, then it happens. The universe is INSIDE God because God is bigger then space.

Correction: YOU see order and design in the world. I don't see that. As in, your claim is your belief and nothing more. Beyond that, your view of god sounds like a view of god by a 5 year old. I mean, yes, we get it, your parents told you all that. But you're capable of forming your own opinion. I hope. So understand it's naive in the context of this thread. Educated people, comparatively, are discussing things that seem to be flying way over your head.

Consider it from our perspective. You're in a scientific thread making entirely non-scientific claims. If you can't talk the science, then why are you here? You're not even making a logically sound argument: You think just because someone made life in a lab, you've come to the automatic conclusion that it MUST be the ONLY way. Why is it the ONLY way? I've asked you multiple times to explain this. You can't. Therefore i think you're in way over your head. You should back down and accept this:

None of us have any problem with your beliefs. You specifically tried to tie your belief into the realm of science and logic. You didn't adequately show either to be true, I.E you have made your own position weaker by giving us more fuel. You're helping the stereotype of uneducated creationist thrive.

Stop making a fool of yourself. If you must, answer properly instead of making this thing seem like a cheap chat room.

No one made God.

Some atheists believe in magic, as in universe from nothing and some believe in a infinite universe.

If you had any understanding of how contradictory your own idea of the metaphysics you're arguing here is, things would be a lot less painful for us all.

You somehow manage to deny magic and invoke it at the exact same time. Tell it in a way that won't do this. For your own benefit. If you can't, stop trying.

And you have failed to show us a single atheist who claims the universe came from nothing. You don't even understand their arguments.
 
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