Scientists create living eating and growing machines...

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Oh come on now.

Least convincing ya say. I give the most convincing.

There is order, design and information in the world. From our experience, no order, design and information comes from nothing, so, intelligence did it.

Hows that not convincing? I have proof that it IS convincing. Because IM convinced by it. Therefore i know its convincing.

But you see, this is categorically untrue, and that is easily demonstrated. Lots and lots of order, design and information happen for no other reason that that they just happen. Go to the beach one day, and notice how the pebbles, flotsam and detritus seem to be ordered along the shore. This happens for no other reason than that the sun heats the air, the air moves from areas of high to low pressure, the air moves the water, the water moves the stuff in it, more or less according to its density and size...and voila! sorting happens!. There are billions and billions of examples of order and supposed design all over this world, if you would only look. Look at galaxies! Ordered and beautiful, and completely explicable using little more than Isaac Newton's laws. Look at the relationships between the shell of the chambered nautilus, the sunflower and series of numbers (Fibonacci Series) defined by nothing more than that "the next number in the series equals the sum of the two previous numbers."

And all those billions of examples of order require nothing more than natural processes that are quite well understood. Why not try to understand them yourself?

 

[Twilight Hue]

This proves that it takes intelligence to create or design life.

What if designed life kills its creator?

That would be the ultimate Darwin Award!

 

[David T]

This proves that it takes intelligence to create or design life.

I am afraid what you are looking at are idiot secularists whom are your dopelganger.

A bit like "I believe in big foot" finding affirmation in " we will soon scientifically create biglfoot." . Normal.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Not from nothing, but from God. God is something, not nothing..

So it was MAGIC, then? Because the bible **clearly** spells out "Nothing" in no ambiguous terms.

Because the ONLY way to *poof* an entire universe from NOTHING is to use MAGIC.

Hence, no magic. Many atheists on the other hand believe the universe came literally from nothing. Therefore THEY believe in magic.
.

100% wrong-- you could not possibly BE more wrong: The Big Bang does NOT-- repeat NOT claim the Universe sprang from nothing.

It specifically starts with a kind of Cosmic Egg: Wherein the Universe was so condensed that it could not be anything but energy--- NOT NOTHING.

Straw Man seems to be your favorite Logical Fallacy.

I dont believe that..

So you DO NOT believe YOUR OWN BIBLE? Wow.... I don't either, but ... wow.... just... wow.

The bible is quite clear: there was NOTHING, then like MAGIC, god *poofed* the Universe into existence...

I dont believe it played out like that either.
.

That's **exactly** what your bible states. So you do NOT believe the bible.... at all???

God saying something means he created sound.
.

You cannot transmit sound in a vacuum-- since there was NOTHING, according to the bible?

There would have been a VACUUM-- a perfect, absolutely sound-proof vacuum.

So. Again. MAGIC: Your god uses MAGIC to magically "transmit" sound in a perfect vacuum...

Wow....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Then why do some atheists believe the universe came from nothing then?
.

Straw Man Logical Fallacy: Citation Needed for these mythical "atheists"...

But even if there were? Who gives a flying fig if some idiots do think the universe came from nothing.... they would be just as wrong as ....

.... creationists...

.... and you cannot get much more wrong than they do...

 

[Valjean]

There is order, design and information in the world. From our experience, no order, design and information comes from nothing, so, intelligence did it.

You're just imputing a magical intervention to phenomena you don't understand.

Put chemicals together and there are predictable, orderly results; fill a bathtub with ping-pong balls and they'll arrange themselves in a perfect pattern; put an animal in a new environment and it will evolve to better fit the environment.
All by known, understandable physical mechanisms. No special intervention needed.

Then why do some atheists believe the universe came from nothing then?

What's this obsession with "atheists?" Physicists of all persuasions believe the universe came from no thing, but the details are not yet clear, and there are many competing theorums. No thing isn't the same as nothing.

There have always been things we didn't understand, and which were attributed to God. Then we'd figure them out and God's magic would retreat to the next perplexity.
God's been retreating as an explanatory mechanism for some time now.

How can selection create?

Evidently you don't understand how natural selection works.
There were once only microbes. Now there are trees and fish and people. Natural selection is one of the major mechanisms of this 'creation'.

 

[Valjean]

Because he creates matter by means of his own energy substance and mind. Then forms and designs it.

What does that mean? If He has energy and substance, why can't they be detected?
This is speculation or folklore. It's unsupported, and it's no explanation of mechanism.
[QUOTE="Jollybear [/quote]

I told you the mechanics.

God created matter out of himself, then formed and designed it.

That's not "mechanics," at best it's poetry.

 

[Valjean]

Created with the universe huh? How did dat happen?

Do you seriously want an explanation of theoretical physics or cosmology?

Why was it made that way?

We're talking physics. There is no why.

No one made God.

Yet you insist on a creator for everything else.

Some atheists believe in magic, as in universe from nothing and some believe in a infinite universe.

What does this have to do with atheists?
Science disavows magic. Scientists are researching the natural mechanisms underlying the creation of the universe.

 

[Jollybear]

Before i respond to everyones points, tell me, is there any point in me doing so and if yes, what is it?

 

[tas8831]

You're just plain wrong. Nothing indicates that non intelligence creates life. There is no evidence. There is wishful thinking and outright lies but that's all we've gotten from you

What is there that indicates "intelligence" creates life? And where did this life-creating intelligence come from?

 

[tas8831]

You believe chemicals created a full grown man out of dirt and chemicals but you don't think life could be created from a all powerful spirit being.

Who believes that chemicals created a full grown man from dirt?

I think you are projecting your sad middle eastern creation myth onto others to avoid having to admit that you just believe in magic and fairy tales.

 

[tas8831]

lol ... didn't ask you to prove God isn't real
The atheist needs to preform / demonstrate / display how life arrived from non-life ie: matter alone < no can do < the challenge still stands
NO CAN DO

The theist needs to preform[sic] / demonstrate / display how life arrived from non-life ie: matter alone < no can do < the challenge still stands
NO CAN DO

Creationists fail.

 

[tas8831]

The atheist needs to preform / demonstrate / display how life arrived from non-life ie: matter alone < the challenge stands

Like I said...

And what of YOUR end of the bargain? Where is YOUR demonstration of Tribal Deity Creation of a man from dust? Why is the 'challenge' unidirectional? Surely, you do not think that deity-magic is the default?

Show me where creationists have re-created the act of making a man from dust? No can do? No credibility.

 

[tas8831]

God design the baby birth system.

Did God design the baby birth system of hyenas, too?

 

[Jollybear]

Why is there so many atheists on here and not enough theists? Im bombarded with too much posts. Debating one person takes enough time. Where are all the theists at?

 

[Darkstorn]

Why is there so many atheists on here and not enough theists? Im bombarded with too much posts. Debating one person takes enough time. Where are all the theists at?

Some are here arguing with you. You're making the biggest mistake a fundie can possibly do: You forget that there are agnostic atheists, gnostic atheists, agnostic theists, and gnostic theists. From what i've seen, all the people you've been arguing here are either agnostic atheists or agnostic theists.

 

[Darkstorn]

Also, i feel people arguing with you has nothing to do with religion itself. It's the fact that you're in way over your head and everyone agrees. So when you asked if there's any point in you answering all the posts, i'd say no, there is no point. You'll just start the cycle from beginning.

People disagree with you because of your overly simplified way of explaining and understanding things. I.E Your arguments are mostly nonsensical because of your lack of education, not because of your religion.

You can believe in god and understand science. I'm just saying, you don't know how to do the latter effectively to make a case for yourself.

 

[Polymath257]

Then why do some atheists believe the universe came from nothing then?

Show me one.

The most common viewpoint is that the universe has existed for as long as there has been time. At no point in time was there 'nothing'.

How can selection create?

Mutation creates variation, and selection moves the average values in the population. That is how new species are created.

 

[Darkstorn]

The most common viewpoint is that the universe has existed for as long as there has been time. At no point in time was there 'nothing'.

I think many creationists still think of the Big Bang as an actual explosion of matter out of nothingness. If it was like that, then it'd be a bit like god, but fortunately for us, it's not quite that nonsensical.

 

[Jollybear]

Someone answer this......as long as weve debated on this forum, years, and no one is convinced either way, what is the point?